help with glass adhesion

[tyru007]

I've been testing in glassware for a couple of months so far. Using Ecosoya CB-Pure in Apoths and metro/status jars (frosted and clear). I have tried w/ and w/o BW at 2% to 4% and at temps from slushy at 100 deg to 115 deg F . I warmed the jars and also tested them at room temp. Most have pulled away from the glass to some extent. Actually the best looking one so far was just the CB with no additives poured a little above slushy at about 105 deg. However, wicking was terrible. Any suggestion without going to a parafin blend to get better adhesion with the glass and reduce wet spots. The wicking I can contiue to do battles with. Or am I just being too critical.

Also want to add that we registered our domain the other day and hopefully will have a web site up soon for email and pictures. May actually sell a candle after about a year of testing.:rolleyes2

At least I get a good tax break.

[Lightning Bug]

Hi. Everyone says embrace them, but I have problems doing that. For the last 2 weeks I have been pouring basically the same wax mix with different FO. Some showed great glass adhesion and others bad. I am beginning to wonder if it is the type and % of FO that causes this and not the wax. I'm sure others with be more help, but I was wondering about this and since it goes with your question, I hope you don't mind my adding to your wet spot discussion. Beth

[geekrunner]

I found I get great adhesion when the candle cools as slowly as possible. I use a blend of Golden Brands waxes with USA in it, I pour in room temp jars at about 125*, and place in an oven that was pre-heated to ab 150* and turned off. The very slow cooldown of the oven makes the wax cool more slowly and evenly, and when it is cooled completely is pretty solid with no sinkholes or air pockets. You may need to heat gun the tops just a little to smooth out. I have been doing this for various blends and have great adhesion!

If you add more than 10% paraffin to your wax, eventually no matter how you try it will shrink up enough in cooler ambient temps to cause wet spots to appear. Sometimes with parasoys it is unavoidable. The only way to avoid wet spots in a parasoy is to put enough in to make it pull away completely for the jar, thus no wet spots.

To make a long story short, to eliminate wet spots you either need full adhesion or no adhesion. IMHO of course

geek

[Henryk]

Hmmm ... just goes to show you that different things work for different people. I went to a parasoy (GL's 70/30) and have FAR fewer wetspots (mostly none). I also had pretty darn good luck with their GL Soy when I used that. That being said however, its not cold here yet - so maybe things will change. I also don't keep the candles around for months either - they get burned! I usually use the metro (status) jars - 8 oz. clear.

The CBA I used to use pulls completely away after a couple days so no wetspots, but the meltpool adhears back to the glass.

I would suggest to try different waxes and also make sure your containers are extremely clean. The only other thing I have noticed is that with thicker glass containers, wet spots developed much more often for me. (However I won't use cheap thin glass).

The other thing you may want to do is add tins to your line. I never used to use tins but am really starting to like them - wetspots never enter into the picture!

[topofmurrayhill]

If you add paraffin to soy it will just pull away from the glass. It's more accurate to interpret the "para" portion of parasoy to mean "paraffinic".

[Henryk]

So Alex, do you mean that when you have a "parasoy" product its something other than just some vendor's or manufacturer's mix of a simple paraffin wax with a simple soy wax? (I can honestly tell you that that 70/30 wax adheres very well for me so far.)

[Meridith]

I too find that the slower my candles cool, the less chance I have of getting wetspots. Sometimes though, it is unavoidable. Just take a look at some the popular commercial candles - they have them too. You can also put your jars in a styrofoam cooler to slow the cooling process down.

[topofmurrayhill]

So Alex, do you mean that when you have a "parasoy" product its something other than just some vendor's or manufacturer's mix of a simple paraffin wax with a simple soy wax? (I can honestly tell you that that 70/30 wax adheres very well for me so far.)

Yes exactly. Straight soy plus plain paraffin doesn't adhere at all.

[tyru007]

Thanks for all the great advice:

I have tried a mixture of a pillar blend soy wax with the pure (same combo we use for our tarts), which exhibits very little frosting. The candle looks very good with minimal frosting and no wet spots, because it has pulled completely away from the jar. The only problem in a straight sided jar is that the wax moves around in the jar and rattles when you shake it. Otherwise, the candle looks and burns great.

I am going to try cooling slower possibly in the oven or in an insulated cooler.

For some reason, I get more frosting when I add 2-3% beeswax. On the plus side, the BW makes the tops flatter (although a get a small circular crack), the jars are easier to wick and burn a little better, and the top look better after a burn.

I have also been experimenting with tempering/seeding to promote selective formation of denser crystaline structures in the wax. I have been able to create a seeding material out of another wax to add to the soy wax to promote the growth of a denser crystal structure. I've poured this mixture into a couple of warmed 16 oz apothacarys with no wick. The candles looks very good with a few small spots of internal macro crystals and some frosting on the top (likely where the wax had cooled too quickly) and a little on the bottom (where it was in contact with a cool surface). The most notable characteristic was that the candle wax was harder than other candles I have poured using the same wax. The candle had a good dip (about 1/4") in the middle but the texture was fairly smooth with no cracks.

I'll try to post a pic later.

I'm going to try some controlled cooling as my next experiment. Mu-HA-HA-HA

I'm still looking for a wax that I can just heat and pour with good results without resorting to a parasoy blend.

I've ordered some samples of the GB 464 and 415 to also experiment with.

[topofmurrayhill]

415 is a good raw material to play with. 464 has USA in it, which you might want to get a hold of. It's a monoglyceride that works as a crystal modifier and keeps the blend all-veggie. However, it's not as effective as petroleum products, at least in amounts that are practical to use. It will harden the wax and raise the melt point.