Citronella Eo Or Fo or does it matter?

[caradelrae]

I am thinking summer already and want to make some candles for use outside here but is there a difference between the eos and fos as far as candles go? Will the fo work?

TIA

Cara

[Tess]

I am thinking summer already and want to make some candles for use outside here but is there a difference between the eos and fos as far as candles go? Will the fo work?

TIA

Cara

Use the FO. The EO is dangerous to fetuses. It will cause the pregnant woman to go into early labor. I stay away from EO's in candles. I heard it is just a bad idea.

[caradelrae]

Thanks for the heads up tess! I think the FO is starting to look much more favorable!

Cara

[Tess]

Thanks for the heads up tess! I think the FO is starting to look much more favorable!

Cara

YW! Peaks has a great one. Dead on. Worked for my personal use. I know alot of people mix Lemongrass with it to help the scent be somewhat bearable!!

[caradelrae]

Guess i am one of the few that actually like the smell of citronella....LOL

Ill check it out!

Cara

[SatinDucky]

I use Peaks as well, and it works great

[Margaritamama]

Guess i am one of the few that actually like the smell of citronella....LOL

Ill check it out!

Cara

Me too.....

[soulshine]

I have a 4oz bottle of citronella that I've had for almost 2 yrs now, I keep forgetting about it in the summer... Guess this summer I'll slop some wax in a bucket and see if it's still any good. Thanks for reminding me about it!

[BruceCarvesWax]

I have been playing with EO's for a few years now and from my findings I would have NO problems using the EO to make candles with unless YOU are prego. Then maybe stay away from the eo's although citronella is not really listed as a risk on the sites I have looked at. If you were putting it on your SKIN like in lotions I might say no, but as far as I know nothing has been said about the dangers of it in a candle. Tess, can you prove me wrong on this? Bruce

[Bunny]

I'm really wondering about this one too. How can the FO do the same thing as an eo? It's a totally different chemical composition. How can the synthetic equivilent do the same thing?

I'm under the impression that "part" of the mosquito away power this stuff has is in the huge wicks that smoke, as mosquitoes don't like it. I totally could be wrong here..lol Just thinking out loud!

[BruceCarvesWax]

I'm really wondering about this one too. How can the FO do the same thing as an eo? It's a totally different chemical composition. How can the synthetic equivilent do the same thing?

I'm under the impression that "part" of the mosquito away power this stuff has is in the huge wicks that smoke, as mosquitoes don't like it. I totally could be wrong here..lol Just thinking out loud!

Whats weird is that the EO Citronella is cheaper than most of the FO Citronella you can buy. Large wicks are a part of it too.... just like making incense with those huge 19 inch sticks that smoke like heck. Mosquitoes hate the smell of citronella for sure, but the EO would have to have more of the stuff that skeeters dont like compared to the FO. Its like comparing 100% deet to 5% deet, it smells just as strong to us.... but to the bugs wouldnt the 100% stuff work better?

[Jane42]

I'm under the impression that "part" of the mosquito away power this stuff has is in the huge wicks that smoke, as mosquitoes don't like it. I totally could be wrong here..lol Just thinking out loud!

HEY! Apparently I am an expert at making "SMOKIN' CANDLES"....maybe I have found my calling!! My luck, my citronella candles would not smoke at all.....

[Tess]

I have been playing with EO's for a few years now and from my findings I would have NO problems using the EO to make candles with unless YOU are prego. Then maybe stay away from the eo's although citronella is not really listed as a risk on the sites I have looked at. If you were putting it on your SKIN like in lotions I might say no, but as far as I know nothing has been said about the dangers of it in a candle. Tess, can you prove me wrong on this? Bruce

Actually I can, it has been mentioned before on this site... Maybe the archives. I also know a massage therapist who specializes in EO. She has literature stating the same thing.

Here is just from a quick online search:

Methyleugenol: It has become clear that methyleugenol (ME), a phenolic compound with a clovelike aroma, is a systemic carcinogen (13-18) in rodents and damages DNA in human cell cultures. ME has a threshold effect - that is to say small amounts are safe but large amounts carcinogenic. Most of us are already exposed to small (and probably safe) amounts of methyleugenol through common flavorings, so the IFRA has published some very restrictive recommendations about the use of ME in fragrances, including in room fragrancing. New safe usage guidelines for most of these oils fall below 0.1% for general skin use and below 2% for inhalation (like in aromalamps). It's not clear whether ME actually makes it through the skin in aromatherapy use, but these oils often contain over 5% ME and should probably be avoided.

Allspice (Pimenta dioica, P. officinalis)

Basil, linalool chemotype (Oncimum basilicum ct. linalool)

Bay, West Indian (Pimenta racemosa) 0-5%

Laurel Leaf or Bay Laurel (Laurus nobilis)

Melaleuca bracteata - very high amounts!

Ravensara (Ravensara aromatica)

Tarragon (Artemesia dracunculis)

Tea Tree, methyl eugenol chemotype (Melaleuca leucadendra)

These oils contain only small amounts of ME and are of concern if you are following the new IFRA guidelines.

Armoise (Artemesia vulgaris) <1%

Basil, methyl chavicol (Oncimum basilicum), none to 1%

Carrot (Daucus carota), very rarely present, <1%

Cassia (Cinnamomum cassia), rarely present <0.5%

Citronella (Cymbopogon nardus), none to 1%

Cardamom (Elettaria cardamomum), <0.5%

Elemi (Canarium luzonicum) - tiny amounts

Hyssop (Hyssopus officinalis) <0.5%

Myrtle (Myrtus communis) - up to 2.5%

Nutmeg (Myristica fragrans) <1%

Mace (Myristica fragrans) <0.2%

Wild Oregano (Coleus aromaticus) - 2%

Rose (Rosa spp, all), none to 5%

Rosemary (Rosemarinus officinalis), tiny amounts

Savory, Winter (Satureja montana) rarely present, <1%

Ylang ylang (Canaga odorata var. genuina) - rarely present, <0.2%

Also being that I just had my sone a few years ago, we were giving pamplets from the OB about things to be aware of. Like Toxoplasmosis and other things. There was also a pamplet regarding EO both internally and in home fragrance, Unfortunately I chunked all of the pamplets and stuff about a year ago, so I could not actually say what company published it. I will see if I can get in touch with my friend because she has tons and tons of books on EO.

[BruceCarvesWax]

Actually I can, it has been mentioned before on this site... Maybe the archives. I also know a massage therapist who specializes in EO. She has literature stating the same thing.

Here is just from a quick online search:

Methyleugenol: It has become clear that methyleugenol (ME), a phenolic compound with a clovelike aroma, is a systemic carcinogen (13-18) in rodents and damages DNA in human cell cultures. ME has a threshold effect - that is to say small amounts are safe but large amounts carcinogenic. Most of us are already exposed to small (and probably safe) amounts of methyleugenol through common flavorings, so the IFRA has published some very restrictive recommendations about the use of ME in fragrances, including in room fragrancing. New safe usage guidelines for most of these oils fall below 0.1% for general skin use and below 2% for inhalation (like in aromalamps). It's not clear whether ME actually makes it through the skin in aromatherapy use, but these oils often contain over 5% ME and should probably be avoided.

Allspice (Pimenta dioica, P. officinalis)

Basil, linalool chemotype (Oncimum basilicum ct. linalool)

Bay, West Indian (Pimenta racemosa) 0-5%

Laurel Leaf or Bay Laurel (Laurus nobilis)

Melaleuca bracteata - very high amounts!

Ravensara (Ravensara aromatica)

Tarragon (Artemesia dracunculis)

Tea Tree, methyl eugenol chemotype (Melaleuca leucadendra)

These oils contain only small amounts of ME and are of concern if you are following the new IFRA guidelines.

Citronella (Cymbopogon nardus), none to 1%

Also being that I just had my sone a few years ago, we were giving pamplets from the OB about things to be aware of. Like Toxoplasmosis and other things. There was also a pamplet regarding EO both internally and in home fragrance, Unfortunately I chunked all of the pamplets and stuff about a year ago, so I could not actually say what company published it. I will see if I can get in touch with my friend because she has tons and tons of books on EO.

It's not clear whether ME actually makes it through the skin in aromatherapy use, but these oils often contain over 5% ME and should probably be avoided.Citronella (Cymbopogon nardus), none to 1%

I read it....and I don't see ANY proof that it is bad in a candle! Your findings really tell me it IS within the guidelines for safe usage. LOL For every person or site that says its bad for you, I could find one or two that says it not harmfull. Just talking about citronella your own findings state that ME's safe useage is below 2% for inhalation (like in aromalamps). If citronella had NONE to 1% of this ME stuff and if you put the citronella in a candle at 8% reducing this % even farther that = Safe. The way its stated in your "page" of information you could even just stick a wick in citronella and burn it that way and that would even be well within the safe usage rate. It could even have NONE of the ME stuff in it based on your info. Your info also states that "ME" has a threshold effect - that is to say small amounts are safe but large amounts carcinogenic. (hey, it just said small amount are safe didnt it?) So, below 2% "ME"= safe, no threshould effect. Course I guess I could go copy and paste a page or two also, but then we would just be playing tennis forever with this subject... hey?

[Tess]

It's not clear whether ME actually makes it through the skin in aromatherapy use, but these oils often contain over 5% ME and should probably be avoided.Citronella (Cymbopogon nardus), none to 1%

I read it....and I don't see ANY proof that it is bad in a candle! Your findings really tell me it IS within the guidelines for safe usage. LOL For every person or site that says its bad for you, I could find one or two that says it not harmfull. Just talking about citronella your own findings state that ME's safe useage is below 2% for inhalation (like in aromalamps). If citronella had NONE to 1% of this ME stuff and if you put the citronella in a candle at 8% reducing this % even farther that = Safe. The way its stated in your "page" of information you could even just stick a wick in citronella and burn it that way and that would even be well within the safe usage rate. It could even have NONE of the ME stuff in it based on your info. Your info also states that "ME" has a threshold effect - that is to say small amounts are safe but large amounts carcinogenic. (hey, it just said small amount are safe didnt it?) So, below 2% "ME"= safe, no threshould effect. Course I guess I could go copy and paste a page or two also, but then we would just be playing tennis forever with this subject... hey?

Okay where is the eye rolling smiley when you need one? So Sure how many pepople are actually going to do the research and find out how much % is "safe" . Geez you have been around "the biz" long enough to know. But hey you wanna tell people its all good go right ahead. I'm not reccomending every newbie on the block to run and use the EO. Besides I guess it is all matter of "opinion", because you can pretty much find readings all over the web that will back either side of the story. Just depends where it is written.

OH and BTW YES, it did say it was safe to use in certain amounts but what if someone doesn't know that? Must have missed the "home scenting" paragraph...hey?

[topofmurrayhill]

Seems to me the important consideration is whether we're talking about classic citronella insect repellent candles. Those are for outdoor use. Presumably you want to use the EO so that they work well, but humans are really not going to get much exposure in the open air. Talk about good ventilation.

Home fragrancing is another matter. Stuff gets more concentrated. Could it be the FOs are intended for people who like the smell of citronella and want to make conventional scented candles that smell like it, as opposed to insect repellent candles?

[BruceCarvesWax]

OH and BTW YES, it did say it was safe to use in certain amounts but what if someone doesn't know that? Must have missed the "home scenting" paragraph...hey?

I read it did you? I deal with facts when I can find them and while yes eo's are not something that everyone should be playing with, I dont just throw out a blanket statement and tell someone they "shouldn't" use them. Let them decide based on the facts they find. You know with all the crap thats in our fragrance oils, this citronella EO just "might" be safer then the citronela fragrance oils on the market. I still dont get your "safe in certain amounts comment".... straight citronella would be safe for home scenting if you looked at your findings. I know people dont like it when they are "called out", but I think your response to the original post was not correct so dont roll your eye at me girl. I stay away from eo's in candle just because most of the time they just plain suck in making a good candle. Citronella EO is the only EO that I use for candles and I have checked up on how safe it is. Bruce

[Tess]

I read it did you? I deal with facts when I can find them and while yes eo's are not something that everyone should be playing with, I dont just throw out a blanket statement and tell someone they "shouldn't" use them. Let them decide based on the facts they find. You know with all the crap thats in our fragrance oils, this citronella EO just "might" be safer then the citronela fragrance oils on the market. I still dont get your "safe in certain amounts comment".... straight citronella would be safe for home scenting if you looked at your findings. I know people dont like it when they are "called out", but I think your response to the original post was not correct so dont roll your eye at me girl. I stay away from eo's in candle just because most of the time they just plain suck in making a good candle. Citronella EO is the only EO that I use for candles and I have checked up on how safe it is. Bruce

You know I dont care about being "Called out" I can say when I am wrong, but I have had more information than not on this subject. I knew about it before I even knew what Citronella EO was. There WAS a discussion on the old CT board before you even joined up so I guess you missed it. IF it "really" concerns you all that much maybe you should rag on the person who actually said it. They are a prominent member of this board, who has through the years left tons of knowledge behind. SO YES the discussion stuck with me. So maybe you are the one thats wrong.

I do know for a fact that alot of people who don't really know what they are doing, use EO like FO. YES that is dangerous. Just like Top mentioned for one reason being ventilation. So yes when a person comes on here asking about the difference between EO anf FO, I have to say I recommend FO simply because it is easier and safer to use for the inexperienced person. So don't tell me the stuff isn't dangerous. Anyhow, aside from reading that very statement on this board, I also discussed this with an EO specialist at my last show a few weeks ago. She agreed with me. No she did not tell me where she heard or read this from, but I think it was kind of coincidental that again someone else knew about this particular risk. Maybe I am wrong, and it is just another sales ploy or something mad eup by the big bad FO manufacurers. I don't really know. Personally when it comes to something that delicate I prefer to be safe rather than sorry. That is my opinion. So sorry next time I have a "statement" I'll be sure to head on to the national library and pull out published references.

[topofmurrayhill]

http://www.epa.gov/oppbppd1/biopesticides/ingredients/factsheets/factsheet_021901.htm

http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/factsheets/3105fact.pdf

[eugenia]

Thanks for the references Top. Tess, you need to chill out girlie.

[Tess]

Thanks for the references Top. Tess, you need to chill out girlie.

Me huh? Well I did read it off of this board. I also heard that from someone whom has never heard of this forum. So like I said before I dont mind being corrected, but the links would have been sufficent in the first place but "Someone" would have rather gotten crappy about it.

[BruceCarvesWax]

Me huh? Well I did read it off of this board. I also heard that from someone whom has never heard of this forum. So like I said before I dont mind being corrected, but the links would have been sufficent in the first place but "Someone" would have rather gotten crappy about it.

OH, so... your saying you were wrrrrrrong? If you didnt know for sure you were right in the first place, why would you keep coming back at me like you did?

I dont mind being corrected.

Oh but you do or you would not have kept this up for so long. (Thats ok, I'm the same way as you can tell)-----------------------------------------------------------------------PSA: Any new chandlers tracking this thread, dont get mad or upset or think we are all jerks and make you not want to post. There are some great chandlers and soapers here, we all get along most of the time. I just like for people to be informed, not Misinformed. I find the older you get the less you trust and the less you believe what people tell you. They say you get wiser with age.. maybe those statement go hand in hand? Not saying im wise.. just older. LOL (but I do know "some" stuff)

[candelecandlecompany]

Boy I wish I would have known the citronella eo would make a lady go into labor early! 5 of my 7 children were late....like up to 3 weeks late.....uggghhhh....

[RobinInOR]

The skinny on mosquitos http://www.ipmofalaska.com/files/mosquitoes.html#work