General Cold Throw questions from a beginner after multiple failed attempts

[MN2021]

Hi everyone. I've been lurking here for a few years now since I became extremely interested in making candles. I have some basic general questions I can't seem to find the answers to so I finally signed up to communicate with others and learn more about all of this. I hope someone can help with these.

 

1. Generally, would you say the smell out of a fragrance bottle is as strong as it can possibly get when properly mixed with the strongest throwing wax? I've bought fragrance oils from Candle Science and The Flaming Candle and I want to say a good number of them seeem very light when smelling them right out of the bottle.

 

2. I see people saying they "can get away with higher fragrance load". This to me sounds like the higher the fragrance load, the more potential of a better throw but I could be misinterpreting statements like that. Some people have said "that wax shouldn't need more than 6% FO"...so does that mean it's going to smell lighter than waxes that can take 12%? 

 

3. Immediately after wax hardens, let's say a few hours later, is it normal for the cold throw to be VERY minimal, practically nonexistent? Just unsure if full cure time is needed for the cold throw to really be noticeable.

 

I've tried 4 different waxes: I've had terrible results both with CT and HT using a Coco/Soy blend I got from Virginia Candle Supply and IGI 6006 (both made on their own). And so far barely any cold throw out of IGI 4630 and a 50/50 blend of IGI 4630/GB 464 but I made just a few yesterday afternoon so too early to tell on those. I follow manufacturer instructions perfectly so I'm trying to figure out where the problem starts exactly in my case. I can tell you I am very meticulous when it comes to process...I'm just unsure of my ingredients and recipe and how/when to tell if those are fine. Overall, I'm leaning towards the fragrance load that I use being the main culprit of my problems (I used 10% yesterday in the 4630 and the 50/50 blend of 4630/464) because some scents ARE very strong right out of the bottle but when blended in the wax, the CT and HT are still practically non existent.

 

I'm aware that the wick is important too. But the CT being at basically 0 is my first obstacle that I want to overcome.

[TallTayl]

Hello and welcome 😊

 

Some of the loss of fragrance could be “candle nose”.  Your nose will be overwhelmed with fragrance while making your products, then lose sensitivity for a while, making the product seem weakly scented until the senses readjust. 
 

some of the perception could be the fragrances themselves.  Some retailers just don’t offer as potent a strength as others.  Finding those that work best for you comes with a lot of trial and error.  all retailers have duds along side others that will work great for you. Many that people love I can’t smell well, and Vice versa. 
 

your waxes all seem like commonly used blends that many use with success. resist the new “advice” about cooling your wax  to its flash point before adding to the fragrance. Your selections mentioned all need to be melted to 180-185*F to completely dissolve the components of the waxes.  Stir well as it melts to ensure even distribution of all the ingredients.  By the time you decant the wax into a pour pot and add the fragrance, the temps should have dropped quite a bit.  Adding a fragrance to wax at 160*F or above should ensure everything stays well blended.  If your wax is a palm wax Blend, you’ll likely need to melt to 200*F just to ensure the components of the palm are fully melted. Well designed candle fragrances easily withstand 200*F with no loss of potency, just for clarification.  One of my most loved fragrances has a flash point of 119*F, and is fully scented when added to 200*F palm wax, for example. 
 

You may find some categories of fragrances are more potent than others, such as cologne and floral types.  Bakery and cologne types tend to work particularly well with the soy blends.

 

finding sources of fragrance that please you is a frustrating process, but worth it when you hit on some you absolutely love.  Sometimes you can stumble onto a classified ad for really old fragrances being destashed that work exceptionally well.  The last few years have marked a strong swing in retail fragrances to keep price points in line with what their customers expect. Many reformulations of fragrances due to supply chain issues and updates to safety levels have made it very difficult to keep up. Used to be that you could pick pretty much any bottle from any supplier and make a strongly scented candle/melt/whatever with 3% to a max of 6%. I long for those bygone days. 

 

 

[MN2021]

11 hours ago, TallTayl said:

Hello and welcome 😊

 

Some of the loss of fragrance could be “candle nose”.  Your nose will be overwhelmed with fragrance while making your products, then lose sensitivity for a while, making the product seem weakly scented until the senses readjust. 
 

some of the perception could be the fragrances themselves.  Some retailers just don’t offer as potent a strength as others.  Finding those that work best for you comes with a lot of trial and error.  all retailers have duds along side others that will work great for you. Many that people love I can’t smell well, and Vice versa. 
 

your waxes all seem like commonly used blends that many use with success. resist the new “advice” about cooling your wax  to its flash point before adding to the fragrance. Your selections mentioned all need to be melted to 180-185*F to completely dissolve the components of the waxes.  Stir well as it melts to ensure even distribution of all the ingredients.  By the time you decant the wax into a pour pot and add the fragrance, the temps should have dropped quite a bit.  Adding a fragrance to wax at 160*F or above should ensure everything stays well blended.  If your wax is a palm wax Blend, you’ll likely need to melt to 200*F just to ensure the components of the palm are fully melted. Well designed candle fragrances easily withstand 200*F with no loss of potency, just for clarification.  One of my most loved fragrances has a flash point of 119*F, and is fully scented when added to 200*F palm wax, for example. 
 

You may find some categories of fragrances are more potent than others, such as cologne and floral types.  Bakery and cologne types tend to work particularly well with the soy blends.

 

finding sources of fragrance that please you is a frustrating process, but worth it when you hit on some you absolutely love.  Sometimes you can stumble onto a classified ad for really old fragrances being destashed that work exceptionally well.  The last few years have marked a strong swing in retail fragrances to keep price points in line with what their customers expect. Many reformulations of fragrances due to supply chain issues and updates to safety levels have made it very difficult to keep up. Used to be that you could pick pretty much any bottle from any supplier and make a strongly scented candle/melt/whatever with 3% to a max of 6%. I long for those bygone days. 

 

 

 

Thanks for your response. It unfortunately looks like I'm just still having the same trouble as I have been since I began this last year. I know people recommend waiting a few days for paraffin wax to cool before testing it, but I have seen many people on this forum state that they wait a few hours up to 12 hours with great success. I don't have the proper wicks for the 4630 right now, but the cold throw is still very minimal even 36 hours later. 

 

I have some candles purchased from a few companies and their cold through is unbelievable. I can leave the lid off and smell it in a 500 sq ft space without ever even lighting the candle. Does this mean the fragrance they used was very strong to begin with before it was added to the wax? Is it possible for the the scent to be stronger in the wax than before it was blended in?

[TallTayl]

10 hours ago, MN2021 said:

 

Thanks for your response. It unfortunately looks like I'm just still having the same trouble as I have been since I began this last year. I know people recommend waiting a few days for paraffin wax to cool before testing it, but I have seen many people on this forum state that they wait a few hours up to 12 hours with great success. I don't have the proper wicks for the 4630 right now, but the cold throw is still very minimal even 36 hours later. 

 

I have some candles purchased from a few companies and their cold through is unbelievable. I can leave the lid off and smell it in a 500 sq ft space without ever even lighting the candle. Does this mean the fragrance they used was very strong to begin with before it was added to the wax? Is it possible for the the scent to be stronger in the wax than before it was blended in?

Probably the most important lesson I learned about reading peoples’ opinions on forums and Facebook groups is that I don’t often agree with them. What is strong to someone else or smells “amazing” to someone else is just kind of meh to me. And vice versa.

 

as far as the comparable strength in retail products, I assure you the big hitters do not buy from the retail places most people just starting out buy from. retailers buy in different concentrations to hit price points their customers are comfortable with. They reformulate often without notice.  I exhausted most of the retail market fragrances over a decade and learned to buy my own formulations wholesale direct from a lab. 25 pound minimums are scary, but then I know I’m getting what works best for my products to my market.

you may find different luck with places like Keystone Candle (they purchased the rights to many Peak Candle formulations), crafters Choice (through several resellers-most commonly Wholesale Supplies Plus). Elements Bath and Body has some strong ones in their collection. Rustic Escentuals has a couple I have liked. Brambleberry has had a few, though many have fallen into reformulation so I can’t vouch for the strength of some I liked over the years.  

[bfroberts]

In my experience...

1. Smell OOB is not necessarily indicative of the final result. I've had some nose burner oils that were lackluster in wax and some light scents that came alive when in wax. I don't judge an oil from a bottle sniff alone.
2. Those high FO loads are a waste of money, in my opinion. Super high loads (10-12% or more) can create excess soot & mushrooming and/or wicking problems without actually increasing the throw of the candle. A good oil that makes the cut with me will have a strong throw at 6-7%. There are tons of oils out there that are just meh...no matter how well made the candle. Some are better suited to B&B than wax. Some are just softer, lighter scents by nature or composition. It may take a long time and a ton of testing to create a lineup that performs to your satisfaction. That's why we all have wayyy too may oils.
3. Soy generally has a better cold throw than paraffin. Just the nature of the beast. Keep the candles lidded as they cure. 

[MN2021]

On 4/10/2023 at 9:45 AM, TallTayl said:

as far as the comparable strength in retail products, I assure you the big hitters do not buy from the retail places most people just starting out buy from. retailers buy in different concentrations to hit price points their customers are comfortable with. They reformulate often without notice.  I exhausted most of the retail market fragrances over a decade and learned to buy my own formulations wholesale direct from a lab. 25 pound minimums are scary, but then I know I’m getting what works best for my products to my market.

 

I believe that. I'm sure these big names like Bath and Bodyworks have their own specially made. But I have tested other people's candles that you'll find on Youtube...smaller sellers that help others with candle advice and they all have strong cold throws on the few that I purchased. There was a 9oz candle from "Blk Sunflower" that had such a strong cold throw to the point where just opening the lid, I could smell it from about 15 feet away without ever lighting it. The hot throw on the other hand was 0. I actually put in 2 random wicks I bought from Amazon (before I knew how important wicks were) into her candle and the throw was so strong when I did that to the point that I could smell it in the hallway with my door closed. But I definitely don't want that. In videos she had up on Instagram, I could see that she purchased her fragrances from Candle Science and Flaming Candle. That's primarily the reason I bought a bunch of sample fragrances from those 2 companies to test but have not had any success yet. 

Edited April 11, 2023 by MN2021