I mean this Hurricane is BIG! Suggestions?

[LRC06301983]

Hello everyone,

Recently, I succesfully made a hurricane candle/wax lantern that is 10" in diameter and nearly 2' tall from a mold that I manufactured myself.

Has anyone ever made, or knows someone who has made a hurricane candle but on this large of a scale? If so, how did you do it and what did you use for a mold?

The only place I've seen candles that are smiliar (although mine have yet to become this intricate) is at this website for a gentleman who makes them all by hand in the Philipenes. Then again, these people have an entire factory and lots of people to make them, and huge wax melters, and all of that candle making equipment that costs thousands of dollars that we are all jealous of.

http://www.docscandles.com/wax_lantern_sub.htm

However, if someone feels like looking at the pictures of the candles on the above site and maybe giving me some suggestions on how they were possibly made that would be wonderful. Maybe that isn't possible from the pictures. But because most of you are much more experienced than I am at making candles (in fact this hurricane is the first candle that I have ever made) you might have some insights. I e-mailed the guy who makes those candles because it never hurts to ask but he won't disclose anything.

Currently I use a mold of my own design that is slightly different from the traditional hurricane molds. In traditional hurricane molds (as you are all aware) you pour the entire container full of wax and then when the walls have hardened to the desired thickness you pour out the still melted wax in the center. However, I had to make a variation on this because otherwise I would have to pour/work with/handle a candle mold containing 50lbs+ of hot wax and I'm strong, but thats just stupid. haha. In the end the hurricane that I have managed to make is anywhere from 9-15 lbs depending on the height and how thick I make the floor.

Sorry this post got soo long but you all have no idea how long I have searched for the little bits of candle making information that apply to a project this large. Sadly, everything I have accomplished so far I've learned the hard way and done from scratch.

Again, any help anyone can be would be really appreciated.

Soon I will have some questions that I have been struggling with about wax types and candle finishes that I will post for all of you candle guru's but I think this tome is sufficient for now.

Thanks in advance!

-Luke-

[Pam W]

Luke,

I routinely make some large 'canes for a restaurant but not as big as your interested in. My largest is 7x11" -- I got a stainless steel container from a restaurant supply. I do fill it completely w/wax & pour out the excess and use that to make smaller 'canes of the same color for the same customer so I don't really have to waste any wax. (they request colored 'canes to match their decor)

You might check out the restaurant supply places for a container close to the size you need and see if they have another container one size smaller that would serve as an insert. HTH

[LRC06301983]

Good suggestion Pam. Thank you very much I'll look into that.

FYI: I posted a few pictures of one of the first hurricanes I poured on the gallery page if you feel like it, take a look and offer any critiques or suggestions you have.

Again, the kitchen supply is a good one. Perhaps the kitchen supply will have a large enough container to serve as the outer mold itself, and then I could use some sheet metal/flashing and weld myself an insert of the right diameter.

This is one of my struggles is I would like to be able to pour multiple candles at a time since something on this scale is REALLY time consuming. But before I went out and bought more materials, I am trying to find a better mold than what I hvae currently.

Thanks again Pam!

-Luke-

[creativegems]

I made one 6" x 13" and had the molds made for me. I did dump out the extra wax and it wasn't hard since I had it on the floor of the basement. I think I'd do it different if I tried it again. I'd weigh down the center tube and just fill in the outside of it and wait until it cooled. There wouldn't be a floor doing it this way but it might be easier to put a light in it by lifting up the cilinder instead of reaching inside. BTW I used a batter powered light. I did put some long thin green leafy things between the outside container and the tub.

Janet

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL22/556826/4085274/50625791.jpg

[LRC06301983]

That is truly gorgeous.

how much did it cost you to get the molds made?

[lindsaycb]

Target had some seriously huge odd hurricanes awhile back. Not sure if the do anymore...but they were big big balls. I believe. Well they had other shapes, but the big balls caught my eye.

[LRC06301983]

The candles at Target were actually the small versions that caught my eye...I just saw them and though, "I could do that, but I want them bigger!"

how do you think they made those round balls though? probably a bowl, waterbaloon type mold?

I dunno, the playing field really changes when you have a factory, lots of people, designers...a virtual assembly line! Lol.

I did think those round globe ones were pretty sexy though.

[Donita]

I have made some rather large candles too. I have had Pourette make them for me. Jeff has helped me with them. You can have any size made and as long as it is just a regular shape, the cost isn't all that much. I even have inserts made to fit in the molds. Call Jeff. He can help. I have used tall dipping vats for molds too. Then I have to over dip these crazy big candles. I know that I am insane and many of you here know that, but I love a challenge. Now that I have learned how to embed flowers into canes, I guess I will do it on a larger scale. Someone will buy it. They always do. I am already planning it in my mind......addict that I am....I probably won't sleep tonight because I will be designing my new monster candle. I use a 5 gallon bucket to waterbath. I also have a large old weck canner that I cut off the cord when it quit working and it serves as a huge tank for waterbathing and making water fantasy candles. This time I may need a garbage can. I just measured my tallest mold and it is 30". Donita

[CandleFreak]

Luke...my only advice is talk to Donita...she'll probably send ya a link to her pics if you ask nicely!!! She has some amazing work! Goodluck can't wait to see what you crank out...oh and I caught a glimpse of the pic in the gallery...you are definitely on the right track

Donita ~ it'll probably drive you crazy til you actually make the next "monster" candle but your right someone will buy it...you are truly talented..can't wait to see it...be sure to post pics so we can all be amazed

Janet~ LOVE that hurricane...so simple and elegant!!

[LRC06301983]

okay Donita I'll bite:)

Usually I'm pretty prideful, but I can beg for a link to these pictures Candlefreak has alluded too in very short order if required. lol.

So here is what I'm imagining...

A traditional hurricane candle mold, circular, seamless maybe, but of sturdy construction maybe 1/8 inch thick walls or more...

And I would want an insert for it so I would only have to fill up the walls though. can you think of a good way to seal the insert to the bottom of the mold temporarily so I could still remove it later? Could I maybe put the insert in and then pour a half inch of wax into the mold and let it leak into the inner circle but it will seal it down. Possibly, even though I will have a pour-line half an inch up my candle, the wax in the bottow will stay hard even when I pour in all the other wax because the heat will be dissipating quickly?

Is this possible? I'd like to avoid filling my mould full of 50lbs of wax, and just do the walls, you know what I mean?

Who is Jeff, does he have any suggestions on this?

Okay suggestions donita? Anyone?

Thanks a lot, this has give me some good hope!

-luke-

[LRC06301983]

hey question to Donita who appears to be the resident expert on candles that purportedly "can't be made"

Why would I need a waterbath?

Actually anyone can answer this one.

I've never really used one before.

I did for the first time the other night making a small hurricane in a coffee tin of sorts etc...

But I mean, what are the physics behind it?

does it give the candle a different finish?

I thought it was just to help it cool down faster and facilitate the dissipation of heat?

Okay free for all time, correct me where I'm wrong.

Thank you all for being soo receptive to a new poster.

-Luke-

[Donita]

The waterbath gives you a nice smooth finish. I just like to use one with hurricanes. You don't have to, but I do. I pm'd you about my ideas but will post it here too. The waterbath cool it faster so I can pour it out. Since you made me "think" about it....I suggested using a large ladle to scoop out the wax until it is light enough to pour out leaving a shell behind. No need for an insert unless you are embedding things. Then I am insane enough to put things on the outside and have to overdip it in wax....figure that one out. LOL Donita

[dai]

janet, that really is an incredible 'cane - i lurve it. out of interest, can you (or anyone) estimate how much such a product would retail for, the material cost and how long it took to complete?

excellent 'cane, most effective

[creativegems]

This was made in one day but I had disasters before this one. I have a dipping vat that is full of wax still sitting here with no idea how to get it out.lol I was surprised the plastic greenery didn't melt.

How about putting towels around the mold with ice cubes in the towels to cool off instead of dipping. Maybe put ice in ziplock bags so the water won't end up in the wax. I know it was winter so I probably stuck it outside to cool it off.

Sorry I'm not much help.

Janet

[LRC06301983]

Uhh I can tell you it would cost enough to make it worth making.

for me I only work for around 3 hours really hard on the candle. a lot of it is waiting, but then again I don't leave the candles or the wax unatended. so I would estimate I do a medium amount of labor for roughly 6 hours to make a candle give a couple extra hours for a batch of multiple candles. It is not unusual for me to start melting in the morning-midmorning on a summer day, and be pulling it out of the mold after dark in the evening. The real catch is these things take a LONG TIME to cool down even in a waterbath I would imagine. I dunno I have to talk to Danita about that a little more if she tries it.

If I'm making a really nice one, with decorations in the side, nice wax, some good additives to harden it up, and I put my seal/artists signature into it which takes a little etc... you know make a good one...

I don't have the breakdown but I'll say that materials alone costs $30

I use a wax that costs roughly a dollar a pound and the candles themselves are upwards of 15lbs when completed. They are solid. Not chunky, but solid. Put in the plaster and the dyes etc... Roughly $30. then add whatever you want for your time and then profit. I haven't sold one yet but its not for lack of people wanting them. If I were to sell it I usually say tripple your materials.

So we are looking at a $90 give or take candle. But when they are done they are truly gorgeous. I'm sure you could make them cheaper, nothing in the walls, cheaper wax like a parafin with a hardener etc..

Pluse I have a special method I use to achieve an antiqued look on the outer surface because I don't like the completely smooth look.

I acutally have a lady on the west coast who is a friend of an artist friend and saw some prototypes and said she would give me $200 plus pay for shipping for one. I think thats a little high myself but it gives you an idea.

I hope that helped.

however...the real cost is in getting the set up I have to make something like this. Imagine how much room, and wax, and tools you use for little candles...

Instead of a heat gun...I have a four foot wand roofing torch that hooks up to a propane tank like the ones glass blowers use...it makes it easier to get the wax to do what I want...

I mean the operation is time, material, and room intensive/extensive.

[creativegems]

Luke I just noticed you are in Ohio. Where in Ohio? Are you still a student?

Janet

[charlotte]

Okay, I have never made a hurricane candle, but I do have a suggestion.

Couldn't you just get a 10 inch diameter container from the restaurant supply, like Pam W suggested, pour your base and let it set up, then take another container that is 9" and turn it upside down in the center of the 10" mold, put a weight on it and pour in between the 2 molds? That would give you a hurricane with 1/2" walls all around. You would have to make sure that the inner container didn't have a lip of any kind, but "theoretically" it should work. There is probably a reason why this wouldn't work and I'm sure someone has tried it, but it is just a suggestion.

As far as getting the wax out if you pour 15 pounds at once, maybe you could use a siphoning pump? The cooling wax shouldn't hurt the plastic, it is fairly high temp. They only cost about 6 bucks at Auto Zone. You use them to empty a gas tank.

[dai]

LRC06301983 (such a catchy name btw, it just melts like butter and rolls off the tongue..) i can well imagine businesses paying $200 for such a product - and they should too.

companies who'd require my consultancy services were charged $1500 per day and it wasn't unusual for, say, three days to be booked. i never became comfortable with this but one must always remember that the actual or perceived value of a product or service may/can/should have little connection with the actual cost.

for instance, the 'cane in the previous pic could work wonders in a restaurant yet the table it sat on would bring in far more money than the cost of the product in just a few hours.

[LRC06301983]

once again, really good suggestion.

Acutally your suggestion would be the miracle that would work.

this was originally my idea and still my hope that something like this would work.

However, you are right there is a problem.

I have look at PVC, Bowls, restraunt supply places, Lowes, etc... and the problem with this idea is that most corporations who manufacture cooking items, or PVC etc.. Do it in increments of 2 inches and my walls are 1/2" to 2/3" thick.

so I would need something that is ten inches in diameter, and then I would need something that is exactly 9 1/3 inches in diameter. See what I mean?

I looked at PVC comes in 2", 4", 6", 8" etc... and it stops at 8" unless you buy it for a commercial job and have it specially manufactured to a specific size. But you have to buy in bulk and I didn't need enough to redo the sewer system for a small town. lol.

Likewise, cooking pots, pans, silverare holders, etc... I have been unable to find anything with a ten inch diameter, and when I do find something with a diameter than I can be mildly content with I cannot find anything that is slightly smaller. I hvae found some stuff that is 2" shorter in dameter, but if the walls were 2" thick then no light would come through.

however, in theory your suggestion is ideal AND if you find something that would worl like this, I will fall down and call you blessed!

the pump siphon thing was a really slick idea!

I'm definently gonna have to think about that. Maybe also to get wax from the melting pot to the mold in the first place cause they are both pretty large.

Thanks for your suggestion. Keep them coming. Lots of you have had so many good ideas I'm actually writting down a "to buy list" and drawing them out on a sketchpad and thinking through what could work!

-Luke-

[LRC06301983]

LRC06301983 (such a catchy name btw, it just melts like butter and rolls off the tongue..) i can well imagine businesses paying $200 for such a product - and they should too.

companies who'd require my consultancy services were charged $1500 per day and it wasn't unusual for, say, three days to be booked. i never became comfortable with this but one must always remember that the actual or perceived value of a product or service may/can/should have little connection with the actual cost.

for instance, the 'cane in the previous pic could work wonders in a restaurant yet the table it sat on would bring in far more money than the cost of the product in just a few hours.

I know its horrible. My initials and some numbers. lol.

the L stands for Luke. Its the best I have to offer.

I had not thought of pricing like this.

I was usually being very conservative in pricing my creations (even though I haven't sold anything yet) because I felt greedy.

But this is actually a very healthy view to have on marketing.

Good insights. Thank you very much.

Hmmm...something to think about...

Thanks a lot!

-Luke-

[dai]

it's easy to lower your price and convince a buyer. just try convincing them to pay more - your reason for charging more may be legitimate but the customer will still feel 'robbed' to a degree.

quote high, sell lower (if needed of course..)

[charlotte]

How about woodstove pipe or HVAC ducting? Both are readily available and the stove pipe is seamless (at least mine is)? That might take care of just one of the downfalls of this system--the difference in the cooling rates of an open container -the outer shell mold- and the inner mold -a closed container.

The heat of the wax against the surface of the inner mold might make it expand because there is no where for the heat to dissapate because the top is closed.

[LRC06301983]

Charlotte...

first of all charlotte is one of my favorite names. Dunno why, just like the way it rolls off the tongue.

I had looked at stovepipe first along with PVC and the largest it comes is 8"

As part of my creative license I have as a candle making idiot savant I demant that the diameter be 10".

Actually I worked it out that 10" is what I'm comfortable with to ensure I have room between the walls and the inner votive candle so the walls won't melt etc... If I went to 8" using PVC or Stovepipe then I would have to shorten them to around a foot tall. which is still a pretty good sized hurricane, but not impossible.

I have to do the impossible 2-2 1/2 foot because someone who makes candles told me I couldn't.

[charlotte]

I thought about concrete forms, but then thought-nope. Even though they come in alot of sizes, they would take forever to set up because the are so thick, but that might not be a bad thing. Like I said, I have never poured a hurricane. There is a 10" and an 8"-inside diameter. If the wall of the 8" was thick enough, it might come up to the diameter that you are needing. I have used them to pour concrete footers and they are pretty thick. The ones that I had were reusable and coated on the inside.

Hey Luke, "blessed" is the nicest thing I have been called in at least a week.

[BruceCarvesWax]

I didnt read all the replies very good so i hope I dont repeat anyones idea. I was thinking about when you DO get your 2 molds, the inside and the outside, you can do like everyone is saying and pour a base or 1 inch wax then put the inner mold into the large mold, heat up your wax as if your doing a repour to get rid of any pour lines. OR You can seal the inner mold into the outer mold like Janet did and do your whole cane. When you take everything out, just put the cane back into the larger mold and pour 1inch in the bottom for a base. That way it will not show ANY pour lines, hey? I do like the stainless steel trash cans that I have seen around and have though about making them into a dip vat, but have not gone that far. I have seen straight side ones and really considered them. Bruce