mysticglow Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 I am working on creating my own soap recipe. I am running it through soapcalc.com. This is what I have so far.38% - Hardness 10% - Cleansing 58% - Conditioning 15% - Fluffy28% - StableDo these numbers look good? What range is best for these catagories? I would like a hard bar but I also want lots of bubbles and I want it to be conditioning. Opinions please?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinInOR Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 You kind of have to experiment with the numbers - find a bar you like and then use those numbers as a baseline. My base recipe comes out like this.43% - Hardness17% - Cleansing52% - Conditioning21% - Fluffy26% - StableYours looks nice. Mine's a bit more cleansing and bubbly than others - it's designed to bubble in hard water. Lots of different ranges will still make nice bars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindym Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Mysti I like your numbers, but I would up the fluffy by adding more coconut, or castor oil, maybe get it up to about 21 like Robin does. I like the high conditioning, that may go down a bit and the cleansing also may go up a bit but you have plenty of conditioning there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysticglow Posted July 31, 2005 Author Share Posted July 31, 2005 Thanks Robin and CindymI am still tweaking my recipe so your help is greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saguytw Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Hi all,I am wanting to make a soap batch and ran the following numbers through soapcalc...hardness 47; cleansing 22; conditioning 42; bubbly 40; creamy stable 43... are these values any good? I am just now discovering soapcalc.... wonderful program!If anybody knows a broad recommended range of these values can they share it? I know this comes with experience and preference but if you could make any recommendation it would be appreciated.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scented Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Did you see this under qualities on Soapcalc? http://www.soapcalc.com/soapqualities.aspor is this what you were looking for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarieJeanette Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 The likes and dislikes of individual's skins can be.....well...... very individual. What one person's skin likes isn't always the same as what another person's skin will like. I really like the advice that RobinInOR gave and I highly recommend following it. That's how I started out and came up with with my own base recipes. Just a 'heads up" regarding the hardness numbers on the SoapCalc-- I've found that they can be a little misleading where Olive Oil is concerned. I can go as low as 26 or 27 (for my 80% OO Castile-type) and it always comes out good and hard. Another case in point is that I just recently made my very first 100% OO Castile, and the SoapCalc said it had zero hardness. Well, in reality, it's actually pretty darn hard if I do say so myself. lol. So, if you are using high amounts of OO, just be aware that on SoapCalc, anything from a zero hardness and on up should be good to go. Barring my soaps made with a high OO percentage (which seem to be the weird exception to the rule), and also my 20% superfatted coconut oil soaps (another exception), I found out through trial and error that I really like to stay within these ranges for all my other soaps:Hardness ..... 38 and upCleansing ...... 18 and below is ideal for me. Conditioning ..... at least 55 and up. The higher, the better.Bubbly Lather and Creamy Lather..... I lumped these 2 together because I found that if I formulate my recipe to have a point or two higher of bubbly (or fluffy) lather in relation to the creamy (or stable) lather numbers, they achieve a beautiful synergy in my soap that just feels really great to me. I like the numbers on the creamy part to be at least 25 or higher (or no lower than 25), and I always try to formulate my recipe so that the bubbly (or fluffy) part is a point or two higher than the creamy (or stable) part.As an aside, I have never bothered with the Iodine or the INS numbers. All I know is that as long as I stay within the ranges mentioned above, my soap comes out lovely, regardless of what the Iodine or INS numbers say.Happy formulating!MarieJeanette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Sometimes I wonder if Soapcalc isn't holding people back from learning about soaping. It's a simple lye calculator, but it has this "soap qualities" convenience feature that people seem to interpret pretty literally.Nobody listed the iodine value for their recipe, but that's at least as good an indicator of how well the bar will hold up in the shower as the hardness number is. Iodine value is a lingua franca understood across multiple industries that work with oils -- one of the fundamental qualities used to describe any oil -- yet so many crafters are hazy on what it means and focus on a made-up indicator instead.I took the oils data from Soapcalc and duplicated the soap qualities system in a spreadsheet in a few hours. Trust me, it's really simplistic. It can also produce significantly different numbers depending on what sources you use for fatty acid profiles and how you classify fatty acids that don't neatly fall into one of the standard categories. I can see how someone found it useful to devise, but the tail shouldn't wag the dog. Free your mind a little from those numbers. Learn the categories of oils. Concentrate on what base oils and proportions make soap that's good in your estimation. Whatever numbers that gives you are the numbers you probably want.I kinda feel that many (not all) of the soaping websites have taught people to make soft soap, especially Soapcalc because folks get so fixated on the "conditioning" number. Neither expensive oils nor a high conditioning number are shortcuts to good soap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cottoncandy Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 I have been trying to formulate my own recipe and here are my numbers. I hope they look good, as this is my very first recipe.Hardness 49Cleansing 21Condition 45Bubbly 21Creamy 28Iodine 49INS 163Any input will be appreciated.Cottoncandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I have been trying to formulate my own recipe and here are my numbers. I hope they look good, as this is my very first recipe.Hardness 49Cleansing 21Condition 45Bubbly 21Creamy 28Iodine 49INS 163Any input will be appreciated.CottoncandyOK I'll take a shot. Looks like a good hard soap.About 30% coconut oil or equivalent I reckon, plus a fairly high proportion of hardening oils like palm or lard and maybe butters. As long as there isn't too much of something like cocoa butter that can make it brittle, that should be fine.If you're especially fond of bubbly soap, you could take a little bit from the hardening oils and move it to the cleansing oils like coconut. If you do that, you might want to move a little to the soft oils also to balance it out. Some castor oil could boost the bubbles too.But otherwise you could make it just the way you have it. If you're new, be sure to use full water and low temps so it doesn't trace too fast on you. Also use an FO that you can look up reviews on to make sure it isn't an accelerator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saguytw Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Hi all,I am wanting to make a soap batch and ran the following numbers through soapcalc...hardness 47; cleansing 22; conditioning 42; bubbly 40; creamy stable 43... are these values any good? I am just now discovering soapcalc.... wonderful program!If anybody knows a broad recommended range of these values can they share it? I know this comes with experience and preference but if you could make any recommendation it would be appreciated....I am glad I got so many responses and replies.... food for thought... just to say that I had made that soap.... tweaked results was hrdness 40, clnsing 21, conditoning 50, bubbly lather 48, creamy lather 47, iodine number 56 and INS 160... as this was my first attempt well second actually but i don't wanna count the first... !and stuff happened!.... well i planned to use and started using the cold process and ended up cooking my soap.... Long story.... but i did manage to save my soap and have started using the soap... couldn't wait... it is amazing.... I am so excited pleased thrilled and i am already planning my next batch! I have even convinced the sceptics in my family that said: "Why not buy soap it is easier..." my shower time has drastically increased as i just love playing with my new soap.... heheheh!I am trying to figure out scents for soaping... the concoction i used in mine smells ok but it doesn't leave much on your skin after washing... i was hoping to have some lingering scent.... not too much but some...What I like about soap calc is that it gives you an idea of what your fantasy oil combinations are going to produce at the click of a button... maybe it is not precise and I am sure to find out more... but it is sure fun to fiddle and then try.... It gave me the confidence to make my own recipe that actually worked... all the drama was due to my inexperience...No going back for me hehehe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I am glad I got so many responses and replies.... food for thought... If you want to ensure your question to gets attention, feel free to start a new thread with it. It can get overlooked if it's buried in an existing thread.People are quite willing to help here and are often very generous with their time and attention, but in response to the sarcasm I'd like to point out that nobody owes you anything.Congratulations on your soaping experience! Glad to hear it came out well. Sometimes it's best to Nike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall Blonde Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Just a 'heads up" regarding the hardness numbers on the SoapCalc-- I've found that they can be a little misleading where Olive Oil is concerned. I can go as low as 26 or 27 (for my 80% OO Castile-type) and it always comes out good and hard. Another case in point is that I just recently made my very first 100% OO Castile, and the SoapCalc said it had zero hardness. Well, in reality, it's actually pretty darn hard if I do say so myself. lol. So, if you are using high amounts of OO, just be aware that on SoapCalc, anything from a zero hardness and on up should be good to go. From what I've read and understand (although maybe I'm talking out of my back end!) olive oil, while a "soft" oil (liquid at room temp) as far as soapmaking goes it is considered a "hard" oil. Because I don't use palm, and because I sell my soaps in a olive oil store, for my base recipe I use at least 50% olive oil, and I ignore what soap calc says about hardness because I know it'll be just fine. Probably half my soaps are castile (100% oo) and they're rock hard after a couple days. The longer I keep them curing though, the better the lather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Soapcalc is out of whack with high-oleic oils like olive. Oleic is a monounsaturated fatty acid that makes a definite contribution to hardness, but Soapcalc doesn't count that at all.However the extra degree of saturation is reflected in the oil's iodine value, so if you focus on that you get a more realistic indication. Here's an example:25% coconut25% palm50% sunflowerhardness = 38iodine = 8225% coconut25% palm50% high-oleic sunflowerhardness = 36iodine = 57Only the iodine number tips you off that the second soap is gonna be significantly harder than the first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarieJeanette Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Thank you Topofmurrayhill!Your explanation of Oleic's more realistic hardness quality in relation to its iodine # has helped me to finally make sense of some things that were very little understood by me. Thank you for sharing your wisdom! MarieJeanette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saguytw Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 If you want to ensure your question to gets attention, feel free to start a new thread with it. It can get overlooked if it's buried in an existing thread.People are quite willing to help here and are often very generous with their time and attention, but in response to the sarcasm I'd like to point out that nobody owes you anything.Congratulations on your soaping experience! Glad to hear it came out well. Sometimes it's best to Nike.First of all I mean everything that I say and if i want to be sarcastic I certainly have better things to do than spend it online... before i posted anything on this thread the last post was in 2005 therefore I was really glad to have gotten a response... I do not want to be involved in online mudslinging... I say again that I honestly was excited , very pleased and honoured for all your responses... all your replies have certainly been encouraging but I am a little taken aback by the harshness of your response to a total inocious line in my post. I also would like to point out that you might have guessed I am not a native first language speaker of Engish.I am sad to say that I have found this quite discouraging... I don't generally spend much time posting much online so If i have inadvertently offended I appologize... Thanks for all the encouragement I did recieve and I must have somehow overlooked the qualities page on soapcalc... I certainly overlooked the numbers guide at the bottom and thank you for pointing me in the right direction...maybe soaping is something i have to do by myself and enjoy with people close to me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I thought you were commenting on not getting responses. Apologies if I misunderstood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarieJeanette Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I am sad to say that I have found this quite discouraging... maybe soaping is something i have to do by myself and enjoy with people close to me...I hope you decide to stay! Internet forums can be such tricky things to read even among those of us who speak English as a first language. So much can be misconstrued because we can't see each other's body language in relation to what we are all posting, and as a result wires can end up unintentionally getting cossed. Such is the unfortunate bane of cyberspace. For what it's worth, I myself detected no sarcasm in your post- only excitement and thankfulness- and I hope you'll stick around and enjoy soaping with us as well as those close to you. MarieJeanette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CareBear Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 posted in error Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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