Hello and help with beeswax container candles

[Sweet Dee]

Hi everyone,

I'm new here - glad I found this place it's very useful!

I'm a beekeeper and have just started experimenting with beeswax products to sell over the last couple of months, including container candles. Because I'm going to sell them I want to make sure they're really good quality. So, I have a few newbie questions…

How deep should the pool of liquid wax be (roughly) in a beeswax container candle before the candle is put out and left to solidify before burning again?

Do people recommend doing two pours for beeswax container candles? (I have tried but because beeswax shrinks so much it often results in wax from the second pour dripping down the side of the first pour in places, giving a blotchy appearance that I'm not so keen on).

Is it possible to get 100% pure beeswax to adhere to the side of glass containers without using any sort of chemicals? (I've tried heating the container before pouting but the wax always shrinks away from the sides).

Any help would be hugely appreciated!

If anyone has questions about beeswax please feel free to ask (I may be able to help with tips on how to find stuff that is higher quality, less likely to have lots of pesticide residue etc…)

Thanks!

Emily

[justajesuschick]

I am interested in testing some beeswax. I would welcome your advice on where to purchase very high quality beeswax. Thanks for the kind offer.

[Sweet Dee]

Hi Karen!

Your best bet would be to buy directly from a small scale beekeeper who uses natural comb. Most commercial beekeepers use "foundation" wax in their hives. This is basically beeswax that has been pressed into a flat sheet and inserted into frames that are then put into the hive. Foundation wax tends to have a lot of chemical and pesticide residue in it, and it gets recycled through the beekeeping system (used by the beekeeper, the beeswax may then be sold back to foundation manufacturers etc) and it will accumulate more and more chemicals the older it gets. I think here in Australia a lot of beeswax that goes into making foundation is imported from places like China and you can bet it's riddled with nasties! Unless it's certified organic, most beeswax that is sold commercially comes from beekeepers who use foundation wax and they will also likely be using a whole heap of antibiotics and miticides on their hives to keep diseases under control (all of which will get stored in both wax and honey).

With natural comb the beekeeper just lets the bees build wax from scratch (it's actually bee sweat!) as they would in the wild, this means it is a lot more "pure" and will have far less in the way of chemicals in it. Beekeepers who opt for natural comb are most likely also going to have "treatment free" hives and won't be using synthetic chemicals.

Beeswax comes in a huge variety of colours, everything from almost white right though to dark brown, depending on how old it is and what plants the bees have been foraging on. As a general rule, if it's quite light in colour (and not bleached) it's probably relatively new (although new comb may be darker if the bees have been visiting certain types of plants). Old wax is usually quite dark in colour.

A good place to potentially find US beekeepers selling good quality beeswax that comes from natural comb and treatment free hives is the biobees forum http://www.biobees.com/forum. There is a section on bee products on there.

Hope that helps a bit!

Let me know if you have any more questions at all.

[Sweet Dee]

whoops, just realised I put this in the vegetable wax section rather than the general candle discussion section

[beekeeper_sd]

As a commercial beekeeper I would have to argue with the analogy that beeswax obtained from a commercial beekeeper is laden with harmful chemicals. Most beeswax rendered from commercial beekeeping operations is "cappings" wax (the wax bees use to seal their honey comb with). As such, it stands to reason that most commercial beekeepers are not tainting their honey and wax with harmful chemicals. For one thing, it's illegal to use miticides and antibiotics used to control disease while honey supers are on a hive during a honey flow. Therefore, honey supers generally do not contain honey comb that has been treated with chemicals.

So, although there may be a lot of commercial beekeepers using chemicals to treat their bees for diseases, the vast majority of beekeepers do not regularly melt and sell their foundation wax. And, most commercial beekeepers use plastic foundation that is coated with beeswax and is not melted down.

Edited January 26, 2014 by beekeeper_sd

[Sweet Dee]

You are most welcome to your opinion beekeeper_sd. I am not sure of the laws in the US, but in my opinion any chemical used in the hive regardless of where it is will end up spread throughout the hive (bees of course move from one box to another) and stored in the wax and honey. Same goes for using foundation, any chemicals in that will end up, at least in part, in any wax that comes from that hive and you certainly can't claim to isolate the cappings 100% from the rest of the foundation when removing it. Also, any chemicals that the bees come into contact with while foraging will likely end up in the wax.

So, I personally won't use beeswax or any hive product that doesn't come from natural comb or comes from hives that are treated or hives that are left in areas where the bees are likely to come in contact with a lot of chemicals while foraging.

I would also argue that the widespread use of chemicals in commercial beekeeping is one of the causes of Colony Collapse Disorder so on an ethical level I wouldn't use beeswax that supports that type of beekeeping.

Again, just my opinion.

[beekeeper_sd]

I would never burn beeswax in a glass container either but I guess that's just my opinion. BTW we do not use chemicals in our hives.

[TallTayl]

How deep should the pool of liquid wax be (roughly) in a beeswax container candle before the candle is put out and left to solidify before burning again?

Beeswax is not suitable for glass containers. The heat required to obtain a full melt pool in beeswax would require a very large wick and would generate far too much heat to be safe in glass. The melt point of beeswax is in the neighborhood of 146*F.

Do people recommend doing two pours for beeswax container candles? (I have tried but because beeswax shrinks so much it often results in wax from the second pour dripping down the side of the first pour in places, giving a blotchy appearance that I'm not so keen on).

Beeswax forms caverns inside the candle around the wick. Those need to be prepared for (relief holes) and filled properly to prevent flares.

Is it possible to get 100% pure beeswax to adhere to the side of glass containers without using any sort of chemicals? (I've tried heating the container before pouting but the wax always shrinks away from the sides).

No. The shrinkage is normal and will never behave as a container wax designed for containers will without loads of additives, making it not a pure beeswax candle.

[TallTayl]

As a commercial beekeeper I would have to argue with the analogy that beeswax obtained from a commercial beekeeper is laden with harmful chemicals. Most beeswax rendered from commercial beekeeping operations is "cappings" wax (the wax bees use to seal their honey comb with). As such, it stands to reason that most commercial beekeepers are not tainting their honey and wax with harmful chemicals. For one thing, it's illegal to use miticides and antibiotics used to control disease while honey supers are on a hive during a honey flow. Therefore, honey supers generally do not contain honey comb that has been treated with chemicals.

So, although there may be a lot of commercial beekeepers using chemicals to treat their bees for diseases, the vast majority of beekeepers do not regularly melt and sell their foundation wax. And, most commercial beekeepers use plastic foundation that is coated with beeswax and is not melted down.

I agree with you! The beekeeping operations around me in the Midwest scrape the cappings, then spin their wax out of the filled supers. The foundation (plastic or wax) with the comb are returned to the hives for the bees to refill.

[Vicky_CO]

whoops, just realised I put this in the vegetable wax section rather than the general candle discussion section

Actually I moved it here we generally move the BW Candle Threads.

[Sweet Dee]

Thanks for the info guys.

I started looking at the similar threads bit after posting this and saw all the info on beeswax not being suitable for containers. Bugger! Not sure why I didn't come across this info while doing internet searches and seems like there are plenty of people claiming to sell 100% pure beeswax candles in glass jars etc on places like etsy.

Ah well, back to the drawing board.

I like container candles and would still like to try them with at least some beeswax. Is blending the beeswax with a bit of vegetable oil a viable option? If so, what sort of ratio would make a safe container candle?

[TallTayl]

Thanks for the info guys.

I started looking at the similar threads bit after posting this and saw all the info on beeswax not being suitable for containers. Bugger! Not sure why I didn't come across this info while doing internet searches and seems like there are plenty of people claiming to sell 100% pure beeswax candles in glass jars etc on places like etsy.

Ah well, back to the drawing board.

I like container candles and would still like to try them with at least some beeswax. Is blending the beeswax with a bit of vegetable oil a viable option? If so, what sort of ratio would make a safe container candle?

I see all kinds of things on places like Etsy that are all kinds of unsafe. Pure Beeswax in glass containers is just one of oh so many.

I have been experimenting with blends, and even at 50:50 beeswax:container soy the wax is just too hard, and requires a very hot wick to keep from tunnelling.

Beeswax makes some darned fine pillars though. Mine burn similarly to palm candles, down and then out, consuming all of the wax safely and with a beautiful glow.

[Sweet Dee]

Thanks, TallTayl.

Well I guess I'd better start looking into pillar moulds and have a crack at that!

[ChrisR]

If you are really set on doing beeswax containers, you could use tins. Just make sure you have a good warning that the tins will get VERY hot and should be placed on a coaster or something similar so the heat of the tin won't damage the wood or whatever it is sitting on. Beeswax pillars & tapers sell the best for me and occasionally a votive or two.

[TallTayl]

I aim to master bw blends in tins Chris. The issue i'm always bumping into is that the tin height too short relative to the width... There' not enough height to get the heat circulating enough to burn right and consume the wax without practically over wicking and getting those tins super hot.

I have purchased "pure beeswax" tins from famous makers to see the magic, and honestly was kinda underwhelmed. Resorting next to multi wicking

[ChrisR]

I've tried double wicking the beeswax tins and didn't have much luck with the melt pool and the tins were VERY hot. I was gonna try 3 wicks next, but ran out of patience & decided I really didn't care anymore LOL!! Let me know if you master it Shannon.

[dillydally]

My neighbors make beeswax candles, tapers and glass jar containers. I believe they use an 8oz wide mouth mason.

Their candles are beautiful and they work hard to get excellent results.

They use local beewax that they melt and strain three times before dipping or pouring. I've watched the process they

use and the container candles are cooled super slowly and are set upon a heated surface and insulated as well, they

completely adhere to the side of the jar and look beautiful. They use a cotton wick and they burn beautifully and last

forever.

[carolina44]

I'm wondering about this too.  Looks like no one has really nixed the vegetable oil idea.

 

There are a few DIY blogs that recommend blending beeswax with palm or coconut oil for container candles. Is there any reason this wouldn't work?

[Heela]

I'm wondering about this too.  Looks like no one has really nixed the vegetable oil idea.

 

There are a few DIY blogs that recommend blending beeswax with palm or coconut oil for container candles. Is there any reason this wouldn't work?

Anyone have an idea re this idea?

[TallTayl]

I have tried 50:50 with soy container wax and the blend was still way too hard to burn properly for a container.

Personally, making a candle using large amounts of oils not intended to be lit on fire would not be my first choice.

[spark-me-up]

You could try mixing your Beeswax with Shea Butter. I'd try that first, before I tried an oil. My reason being that Shea sets hard- you can buy it in blocks. It's a creamy white & has a very low MP. It's a natural product, reasonably priced & not hard to obtain (check out stockists who supply makers of natural or organic skin care etc.)

 

I have been mucking around with lip balms & solid perfumes lately, so I'm blending lots of different oils/ butters/ waxes & trialling consistency. Because I've been testing using only small amounts, I've been pouring into my aluminium TLight cups! I made some Beeswax/ Shea & Almond oil concoction yesterday & was impressed at how it adhered beautifully to the sides (whilst lamenting the fact my actual Beeswax TLights never do! =)

 

Just for kicks, I've stuck some wicks into said cups at the same time & am burning them as TLights as well! Why not? =D Anyway, I thought (with the inclusion of an oil) a few of them would flame, but so far none have. I burned the Beeswax/Shea/Almond oil one only last night & it did fine! Was also going to record the burn time, but forgot =/ You would have to do much more extensive testing, if you are intending to sell an "odd" mix- ymmv!!

 

Maybe my wacky experimenting will help you out in some way anyway- ya never know! Keep experimenting! I wouldn't be giving up just yet, but if you do, try pillars next

Edited July 6, 2014 by spark-me-up

[spark-me-up]

Also, the tennis match earlier about bees/ hives & wax purity was so interesting... thanks for stating your opinions guys! =)