bealight20 Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) Alright so I have finally narrowed my testing down to a wax type, a few wick sizes, and had myself thinking that I had a great system down. Of course, the testing isn't done though because something had to come up...I had been testing wax pouring temps and wicks in unscented wax with the additives I was planning on using. These are coconut oil and UV. The unscented candle top came out beautiful! It was everything I had ever wanted. Unfortunately, as soon as I added FO, major craters around the wick and around toward where the wax meets the glass keep happening with EVERY FO I pour.Yesterday I poured 6 different scents and 1 unscented: every single scented candle had major holes and my unscented was still perfect....I know that this sounds like a cooling issue but for the life of me I can't figure out what to change. I tried heating the containers, cranking up the heat in the apartment, and pouring at different ranges from right after adding FO down to the almost solid slushy stage (I for sure thought that one would work...)It is very wintery over here in South Dakota and I am really hoping the cold outside has something to do with it, as I'll be moving to Cali in a week. I was wondering if anyone else has had this problem or if this is just some weird situation. Edited February 22, 2013 by bealight20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 What kind of wax & jar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bealight20 Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 Wax is 50/50 GB464 and Ecosoya CB 135 and the jar is the 4" 8oz apothecary jar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 1. How are you cooling them? 2. Have you tried them with the FOs & no CO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bealight20 Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 I am cooling them on a wire rack and then I have tried without the CO but the entire jar either frosts or gets wetspots really bad. I think you might be on to something though because for some reason the unscented candle still frosts as if there wasn't any CO in it, while the scented ones have nicely adhered, non-frosted sides. Maybe the oil from the CO and the FO combined make it too oily? The tops don't seep or anything and they burn nicely, but just the tops while cooling are terrible... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 couple more things to try- do you cover with a box when cooling? Have you tried pouring at different temps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bealight20 Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 I haven't tried covering with a box for a few months and the weather has changed quite a bit since then so I could definitely do that. I have been trying all kinds of different pour temps. It seems to happen less drastically when I pour cool but is still around. When I pour hot and in between it caves in everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OldGlory Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Have you tried tempering the wax? I use 464 in tins for a lot of my wholesale orders. What works best for me is 2 pours. The first pour, do it at the suggested temperature. (Since you are blending, you'll have to go with the cooler suggested temp.) The second pour, I allow the wax to set in the pouring pot until cooled. When the first pour is firm on top, I gently heat up the wax remaining in the pouring pot to a creamy stage, then top off the candles. I'm not adding a lot of wax, just enough to cover the top completely when cooled. I get really smooth tops this way. Or, you can just let all of the wax get firm and then reheat. That might be better for jars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JI Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) When you say you pour hot, how hot? I use these waxes and pour at about 170. Minimal cratering etc. But I live in Fl and the garage at this time of year is a balmy 70 degrees. So they cool pretty slowly. On those rare occasions when we have a cold snap and the garage is say 55 degrees, I do notice more cratering. But 1 or 2 swipes of the heat gun does the trick. Btw, I don't use co. Edited February 22, 2013 by JI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bealight20 Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 OldGlory - I will try tempering the wax and hopefully that helps! I think you are right that the 2 pours might not work for the jar so I will try the whole batch. Would the wax lose any of the FO when I heat it back up??ironrose - Do you get frosting on the sides of the jar or wetspots without the co in this mixture?? I had that trouble here in SD but if you are saying there is hope to go without it when I move to a warmer climate then I'd be really excited! haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JI Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) I don't ever get wet spots. I spritz the inside of my jars with windex and wipe quickly. Frosting is always an issue so that is why I stopped dying my candles. I know frosting is still there but it is not thst conspicuous anymore. Are you using co to minimize frosting? I assume you colour your candles? Edited February 22, 2013 by JI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OldGlory Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 I don't think you'll lose an FO strength if you heat it slowly, but I am not sure. My sense of smell is shot. Hopefully someone else will add more info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bealight20 Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 Yeah the CO has helped with the frosting. So far I haven't had frosting in the scented ones with the CO but I have without it. I also got the wet spots without it, but that could be because of the climate. I don't color my candles either but I haven't been able to get over the frosting yet. I keep trying to hold onto this perfect candle idea but as I spend more and more time (and money) I realize I should probably let that go haha. I could live with a top that isn't completely smooth, but the craters are a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmc Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Ive always tempered my soy along with adding USA...imo, I wouldn't add fo until after you've tempered the wax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bealight20 Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 So do you let the wax cool until it is solid and then reheat it to where it is just slushy and add fo? Or do you heat it up until the wax is clearly liquid again and then add the fo? Do you pour it right after or let it get to the slushy stage again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmc Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 (edited) You can either let it cool to slushy stage or let it harden then heat it back up to 185*, add fo and stir, pour at the temp that works best for you. Edited February 25, 2013 by lmc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JI Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 So we uad a florida cold snap. I have never poured and cooled candles when it was this cold. My garage where i work is in the low 50s. At this cooling temp i had the biggest craters ever. I couldn't believe it. There is definitely a relationship. I had to use my heat gun several times to fix these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandleMakinCutiePie Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I had this problem with my blend and i spent tons of time trying to combat the problem and ended up realizing that hitting them with the heat gun is the fastest and easiest solution. Every time the weather changes my candles set up differently. I've spent 3 years testing testing testing and finally achieved a great candle until I started having this same problem. Save yourself the time,stress,and money and use a heat gun. I don't think you'll regret it. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom30601 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I'm using a different wax than you (Ecosoya CB-Xcel), but I did have a surge in cratering and holes when the temperatures really dropped here during Christmas. It was frustrating at times, because I normally have really smooth tops. I also found it to be somewhat random. Even when pouring a single batch of 8oz tumblers, some would be perfect and others would crater and still others would crater and get holes. I tried all sorts of combinations, but kept getting mixed results. My suspicians are that the bottom and sides of the candle are cooling faster than the centers, and this is impacting the density of the wax - more dense where the cooling is slower, and thus it is shrinking down. I don't know, just a guess. Anyway, I switched to the double pour, but I found that I could pour a thin layer at about 130F around 2 hours after the initial pour, and the results would be VERY smooth tops that were nicely bound to the original pour. I would pour very slowly - almost a drizzle -- until the wax reached the edge of the container and then I would stop. There was no noticeable line on the sides, and the throw and burn were not impacted. The only "issue" I had from time-to-time is that the 130F wax melted enough of the initial pour to expose a pocket I hadn't seen, and very tiny airbubles would come up. I found that I could easily smooth them out with my fingers the nexy morning with impacting the appearance (the heat gun would probably work, too).I am looking forward to warmer weather, that's for sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justjasen Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 I use pure GB464 and do not have these problems, but when I was testing waxes I found the ECO CB 135 had a lot of "top" issues. The only consistent EcoSoya wax that I personally found to have great tops was the Excel (But I also found the scent through somewhat lower). Maybe a combination of GB464 and Eco Excel may provide you with better results. My brother uses GB464 and the Excel at a 70/30 ratio and he swears by it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom30601 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Thanks for the tip. I just got 2 cases of GB464 to give it a try, so I might start with a blend to see how it goes. Unfortunately, I am in Europe, and can't find a GB distributor here, just Ecosoya. I can only get GB when I add it to a larger shipment of goods so that it comes by ocean freight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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