Blazing hot wax and stirred forever. Still did not get FO mixed in!

[justajesuschick]

I know with Vanilla/Marshmallow/Buttercream scents that I need really hot wax and to stir forever.

Did that today with DS Marshmallow-The Original and a couple of my cups have dots of FO that I can see on the bottom.

I started with that FO and got my wax WAY hotter than normal and while I normally stir for 2 minutes, I doubled that. The moment I stopped stirring, the wax looked opaque.

Other than hot wax and lots of stirring, do you have tips for me on how to keep this from happening?

Thanks!

[IwantItgreen]

I've never had that happen. I buy my FO from only Peak & CS tho.

[Lorelei]

I've used all of these oils, never had this problem at all. Is there a possibility that your wax has water in it? I got some paraffin slabs once that had water in them and I had oil and water that didn't mix. I've never stirred these more than 2 minutes.

I've used these same ones in soy and when I was testing paraffin too. Nothing like this.

[jeanie353]

I have had bakery scents cause extra stirring and hotter wax too but they did incorporate with the wax. I can't think of anything else you could do off the top of my head. Going hotter or stirring longer could end up just causing FO burn off. Maybe contact DS to see if they can offer advice?

GL and keep us posted.

[puma52]

I've used all of these oils, never had this problem at all. Is there a possibility that your wax has water in it? I got some paraffin slabs once that had water in them and I had oil and water that didn't mix.

Bingo!! These little water dots will stay in the bottom of your pour pot. When you are done stirring in scent/color/additives, just let them settle to the bottom of your pot, pour slowly while keeping an eye on the water dots so that they do not go into your jar. I have done a second pour with these little stinkers in my pot and as long as they don't go into your jar everything is good. Then after my 2nd pour, I get a paper towel after the water and clean the pot out real good so no water is left. If it was too much scent , just pour slowly and leave it in the bottom of your pot and clean out after..... all good.

Edited January 19, 2013 by puma52

[justajesuschick]

If it was too much scent , just pour slowly and leave it in the bottom of your pot and clean out after..... all good.

Not water. I started with an empty Presto (I always do) and my wax is not near water when stored or poured. This happens to me with lots of supplier's FO's but just in the vanilla/marshmallow/buttercream range.

I am heavy handed with the FO. I admit it. That must be it.

[puma52]

Not water. I started with an empty Presto (I always do) and my wax is not near water when stored or poured. This happens to me with lots of supplier's FO's but just in the vanilla/marshmallow/buttercream range.

I am heavy handed with the FO. I admit it. That must be it.

Ya know...we all get a little heavy handed on the scents once in a while !!

[joym]

Don't know what wax you're using, but with one or two heavy vanilla fragrances, I've added a very, very, very small amount of Vybar, and that helped incoporate the fo.

[justajesuschick]

Don't know what wax you're using, but with one or two heavy vanilla fragrances, I've added a very, very, very small amount of Vybar, and that helped incoporate the fo.

You know, I have been pondering Vybar. I have read just enough to make me wonder if I would benefit and just enough to scare me that I would wreck a pot full of wax! I need to research this more. Thanks!

[Lorelei]

Bingo!! These little water dots will stay in the bottom of your pour pot. When you are done stirring in scent/color/additives, just let them settle to the bottom of your pot, pour slowly while keeping an eye on the water dots so that they do not go into your jar. I have done a second pour with these little stinkers in my pot and as long as they don't go into your jar everything is good. Then after my 2nd pour, I get a paper towel after the water and clean the pot out real good so no water is left. If it was too much scent , just pour slowly and leave it in the bottom of your pot and clean out after..... all good.

Here is a thread about this very thing..... http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?88877-Water-in-Wax&highlight=water+in+wax

[justajesuschick]

I am convinced it is too much FO. I poured 10 FO's using the same Presto full of wax and none of the others have this except the 2 heavy vanillas. I'd think that if it was water, I'd see it elsewhere. Also, convicting evidence against my heavy-handedness is that when I wiped out the bottom of the 3 affected cups it was pure FO. It was not enough to ruin the cups for my use. It was a few small dots. I just need to get used to using less FO when using the heavier oils.

[schmism]

what specifically is "blazing hot" i never melt a single batch without a themo in it. Peak instructions call for adding FO at 200+. Its interesting to take your wax to 220 and see how much water boils out of it. I'll add FO at 200-205 and let cool to 175. I almost always pour my votives at 175.

Edited January 23, 2013 by schmism

[jeanie353]

what specifically is "blazing hot" i never melt a single batch without a themo in it. Peak instructions call for adding FO at 200+. Its interesting to take your wax to 220 and see how much water boils out of it. I'll add FO at 200-205 and let cool to 175. I almost always pour my votives at 175.

Sometimes when we are discussing issues we eliminate small details such as what our wax temp was on the thermometer but realize those on the forum have read enough of our posts to realize we do use a thermometer.

In doing the tarts, we are doing a lot of blends where the recommendations at Peak would be irrelevant because it is not that specific wax.

I add my FO at 180-190 (depending on the blend) and pour at about 170ish to hope to eliminate the double pour with some blends.

Funny how what works for one may not work for another

[emilyspoppy]

OK, my new dear friends;

It's late and I'm tired, but I do have know the cause and the solution to this problem.

PLEASE do not critisize my spelling or composition. I'm not feeling well right now.

I've never had water in my wax, (Yikes!) so I can't comment on that.

I did work for an oil company and I can tell you how you can get water in your gasoline;

(Remember this; If you see a tanker off-loading or just finished off-loading, buy your gasoline somewhere else.)

Now back to the fragrances;

I bought some fragrances over the years that simply made me insane. I've had as much as a half/inch of "goop" wind up in the bottom of a candle jar that eventualy seeped like mad to the top. This happened with several fragrances from several suppliers. It made me check everything I was doing. Nothing changed but whenever I poured these certain fragrances, the problem would re-appear.

I'm not a big fan of throwing away bottles of FO that smell and look good, even though they don't work good.

Unlike most men, I asked for directions.

I called a supplier who had sold me three bottles of fragrance that were doing this for me.

1.) French Vanilla

2.) Mulberry

3.) Christmas Spice

I was sorta peeved, but he had an answer;

Some fragrances are made with natural ingredients that have been processed by what is known as a "steam distillation process". These fragrances are often vanilla based or berry type fragrances and cinnamon-types.

Vanilla is the biggest offender since it is used in many blends. Sometimes the manufacturer fails to acheive the right result in either water removal or proper blending of the fragrance. The fragrance may appear to be water free when viewed in the bottle, but it will seperate from the carrier oil in the fragrance when added to the hot wax. This watery goop, which is heavier than wax hides in the bottom of the pour pot which usually winds up in the last jar poured, but may be present enough in the whole batch to continue to seperate until the next big asteroid hits our planet.

Most chandlers think that this candle is a fire hazard, but my test results show the candle will usually self-extinquish when the "goop" hits the wick. The candle is useless, though and she not be used or for God's sake sold.

Don't worry though! There is a solution;

Robin Cheng, owner of "Gemlite Fragrances", Mass; sells a product known as Dowanol. (DPM). It sells for (I think) $5.00 a pound. It's a clear liquid that he recommends you add at the rate of about one to three ounces per pound of offending fragrance and shake, shake, shake and shake. (I only added one ounce per pound and acheived good results.)

Let the bubbles disperse and use your fragrance in your normal concentrations according to your recipe. BTW; I like to give all of my FO bottles a swirl or two just before pouring into the pour pot. It's an old habit for me.

"DPM" (NOT "DPG" Which is used for dilluting fragrances to create air freshener products and sprays.) makes oil "miscible" with water.

IE; Combines them through the magic of chemestry. No! I am not a chemist, nor an expert at anything except firing rifles and handguns. (Do you hate me now! I hope not! I only shoot paper! I've become a pacifist in my antique years!)

This does work.

I have two bottles of DPM in my inventory and no more problems with ol' "watery vanilla and the berry boys".

OH; Right now Robin is having problems with his website. If you cannot open his item's lists give him a call. I think he likes the company. Tell him Dave Hill said "Hello"! Robin likes to let you know he's been in business for over 37 years. I believe he's a one man show. I like the guy! He's an old f*rt like me.

Trust me on this one. I was really happy when I solved the "watery goopy candle mystery" for my shop.

Dowanol / DiPropylene Glycol Methyl Ether (DPM)

HTH

Dave @ Charlotte Hall Country Candles

Edited January 23, 2013 by emilyspoppy
Spelling! I'm Tired!

[emilyspoppy]

OH, MY!

I just reread my previous post and it comes off to me that I think I some kind of wizard candle maker or something. NOTHING could be less true.

I would really appreciate it if every member who has read it would take a moment and read this apology to all on the board.

I'm very "small potatoes" to most of the highly accomplished members of this very talented group of professional chandlers and crafters.

I was just lucky to have found a solution to the goopy wax mystery and wanted to share in the spirit of what I feel the founders and sponsor had intended for this board.

Please believe me when I state that; What I wrote was just my opinion and not meant in anyway to come off as a "know it all's" statement of undeniable fact.

I would also like to mention that the reason I "imply" that Gemlite is the only source for DPM is because I have not found it during other supplier searches over the years. There may be many sources for this useful product.

Thank you for understanding, that sometimes I forget I'm posting to a very large audience when I hit that submit button, and not just chatting with a few well known and close friends.

I will try to be a better member in the future. I will also avoid posting when I'm not tired or feeling poorly.

Thanks again!

Dave

[justajesuschick]

I just saw this so just saw your original reply!

I read it and you came off a VERY HELPFUL so no apology needed!

I have this issue a lot with heavy oils like vanilla/marshmallow/buttercream and as a newbie I welcome any advice and will try most. Some works for me and some does not but I am ALWAYS open to hear it! I am going to try backing off the FO some and then may have to invest in this if that does not work.

What I am eager to hear about is your FO mixing and blending. I am new at mixing scents. I have gone through a lot of ziploc bags and q-tips! haha! I melted one, last night, that I blended and I am quite proud of myself! It was an obvious one, really. A Banana Nut Bread that needed (to me) to be spicier. Added some Cinnamon Stick and now I like it much better!

Because I am geeky, I made a new tab on my wax and FO spreadsheet of intended blends. Some of those are in ziploc bags as I type. Going to leave work soon and go home and check them out!

[HorseScentS]

Dave, I thought your comment was fantastically informative and interesting! I really appreciate your willingness to share you knowledge! Please keep 'em coming and never apologize for your wonderful comments again!

Also, I support the Second Amendment.

Edited January 23, 2013 by HorsescentS

[jeanie353]

Please believe me when I state that; What I wrote was just my opinion and not meant in anyway to come off as a "know it all's" statement of undeniable fact.

No worries. You came off just fine. Sometimes its hard to get the "tone" behind the words but IMO you did not come off as a know it all in the post about DMG.

Thank you for understanding, that sometimes I forget I'm posting to a very large audience when I hit that submit button, and not just chatting with a few well known and close friends.

I find myself doing this often especially when replying to several posts during one login session or in PMs. It has more to do with my personality than anything in that I just talk as if I'm talking to the person (in most posts) and get lax. Just be yourself and don't worry about it.

[Chefmom]

It's very hard, even with the internet, to find valuable information on candle making, especially trouble shooting. The more information, especially technical information from practical everyday hands on knowledge, is invaluable to us all !!

Keep it coming!

[emilyspoppy]

I've thought about it a bit and I believe my uneasiness and anxiety on this board is due more to my situation than anything that's happened here.

I am stuck in a darn wheelchair all day long while my wife is away and I need the companionship that this venue allows me.

I have candles that need to be made, but since it is much harder for me now to make candles than to type, I am spending far too much time here.

I need to find a better balance for myself.

In about 5 years on another candle board I posted less than 700 times. At the rate I'm going here, I'll surpass that by the end of the month!

I hope for myself and everyone else that my recovery comes soon.

Thanks!

Dave

[jeanie353]

I have candles that need to be made, but since it is much harder for me now to make candles than to type, I am spending far too much time here.

This place is addictive. Kinda like FOs

[ChandlerWicks]

Yep, it's addictive. It's ok post away!