Lighten Up

I don't use your wax, but welcome back!

I'm glad you found a doctor to identify and manage your pain. My husband is in chronic pain and it took many years to get someone to listen to him.

Beautiful candles and I love all your helpers(supervisors?).

18 hours ago, Flicker said:

When I left Bitter Creek two years ago after 17 years, and 20+ candle making experience and having closed my personal business down in January 2015, I said NO MORE! Not gonna do it!

 

Well, I got the itch. I can't seem to scratch it. Oh God what am I thinking? LOL

 

I am going back into the business of making candles and soap. Much smaller this time, a much more limited line, and only things I want to make...because when you don't NEED to, you don't WANT to if you don't enjoy it. Sooooo, with this I am on a quest to find new fragrances I can't live without! This time around, 10 main fragrances with 2-5 seasonal scents I change out. Yep, simplicity wins! One size jar, clamshell melts, CP soap, Room spray and car fresheners. That is it! No more pillars, votives, tealights, lotions. Done with those. I don't like making them.

 

Sooooo I'm back! (Yes, I am nuts!!)

I think you are being very smart. I am in the process of trying to scale back from 100 fragrances and at least a dozen different jars. I had started with about 12 'anchor' fragrances and 6 seasonal, but I turned into a FO ho. Now, I am going for efficiency and profit margin... as I'm testing more samples, just in case.

27 minutes ago, Mik said:

Gosh, this is all so sad. I knew I was not incompetent, just thought maybe I was crazy. I cannot believe all that I am seeing in these posts. Personally I have spent thousands of dollars testing different waxes and wasting materials. If my 3,000 poured candles are all ruined due to frosting I am really going to loose it. I will let you know how my next tests go. I did buy the c-3 as well. But I can't go lower than 10% fragrance load.  One of the reasons I tried adding beeswax. I have to say that I have achieved beautiful results finally with the 464 adding a tiny bit of beeswax. But this involves multiple pours and the end result is that they turn into Dorian Gray in 6 weeks. I am pretty certain the swans/ calwax apricot coco is going to be dreamy. I just really wanted to go all natural. But it is becoming clear to me based on your experiences and mine that it might not be possible. The quantum I also tried. SMOKEY!  I have to wonder what is considered normal  in terms of labor and results with soy. Was it always this bad?

I would be more concerned with how they burned than the frosting. Frosting is a well known characteristic of soy, and it can happen any time.

22 minutes ago, moonshine said:

 

I'm not understanding this at all...my lots of "new" 415 from 2017 are needing wicking down major to the point of serious loss of hot throw, it doesn't get hot enough to expel in the air and if I keep the bigger "normal" sized wicks I'm risking burning someone's house down if they light it and walk away 

 

your saying wicking up it drowns out 🤔

 

Bubbly- I haven't seen this either and creamy?  This is to bizarre and completely different from my results - the texture is the same for me and I would of never known anything was wrong if I hadn't made a bunch of testers with new scents 

 

when you talked to AAK what did they say about all this - I have emailed them and never got a response 

 

are you adding additives now or just straight up 415?  It must have varied even more from the 2 cases of my 2017 when I noticed it was behaving different and I never bought more to continue trying- I like many others bought every other wax on the market to test and I'm completely disgusted now hearing TT's 444 difference in a months difference in lot numbers from the same supplier....I just tested over a case of that wax and thought it was going to be workable 🤷‍♀️

I don't love the coconuts and I refuse to try quantum and C3....back down the rabbit hole I go or turning to paraffin to be done with all this 

Oh geez, where to start...

I only have the one fragrance(so far) that I have had to wick up(so extremely) drastically. I only threw that one out there in this post to make the point. All others so far are wicking same, or down- say from a cd10 to a cd7 or cd 8. My hot throw could seriously gag you on some fragrances.

The bubbles are showing up just about at pouring temp, I have to rewarm and stir until the bubbles are gone, then avoid over-stirring before I pour. I work with 4lb batches, so it's been manageable.

I also had quite a bit of condensation in some of my boxes, per AAK, I let them air out ahead of time and has not been a problem.

I use no additives, just the straight 415. Thankfully, buying by the pallet gives me some consistency. The sample I received and the pallet were dated for 8/17/17, which I believe is what they use in place of lot number? 

I will have to track down my notes from my contact with AAK.  When I was talking/corresponding with him, I was not yet into my testing(thus the sample), just wanted some info before getting the pallet- thanks to this board, I had the heads up on that!! I would love to talk to him again at length now that I'm well into it, but who has the time?

On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 4:20 PM, candlescience said:

 

 

There are so many details relevant to the soy story it's tough to summarize them here. But we'll give it a try.

 

While the FDA ruling forced Ecosoya to make radical changes to its product line, AAK did not have to.  They have told us that none of the formulas have changed. We're hoping to get an official statement from them about this that we can share with our customers. But, that is not the whole story.

 

AAK runs two main production lines at its facility in the US. One of the hydrogenators went down this summer. That was the origin of the severe outage this fall.

It's a very long story, but when the line went down, they decided to make some upgrades which didn't go smoothly and extended the downtime.

 

During this period they were running their existing line around the clock, moving material through it as soon as humanly possible. That resulted in a production schedule that was much different than usual. While the product was in spec, there were variations between batches.

 

We all know that soy wax is a natural product. Therefore it varies according to the origin of the source oil, time of year, and a number of other factors. In the same way you can't buy two apples that look identical, no two batches of soy wax will be exactly the same.

 

The difference here is that the production method at AAK has been stable for a long time, but changed last fall. We believe them when they tell us that the formula is the same, but understand that the nature of natural products, plus the flux that their production facility was in, made for a less stable than usual product from batch to batch.

 

Things have stabilized now, and we're hoping that the resulting product will have less variance.

I'm not sure I believe that the formula hasn't changed - I have a fragrance that burns nicely with a cd10 in 2016 wax and drowns out a cd16 in the 2017 wax.

10 hours ago, Mik said:

Personally I have found CS to be a great supplier on the west coast. I find their shipping fees and delivery to be top notch. No complaints at all. I have been 

going crazy over the 464 though. I used a soy blend to start, and tested soy waxes for almost 2 years to figure out where I wanted to go. I decided on 464. I tested for a year, and found the best results with this wax. Then I bought a pallet from CS in November. I have poured almost the whole pallet to launch 24 new styles at the winter shows. Today I found that half of my candles have turned into a frosted nightmare. Completely un-sellable. Just as my show orders are pouring in. I feel sick. After 2 years of testing every possible variation,  I busted the move on CS and 464. I have at least $30,000 invested in vessels, wax, and fragrance. And labor beyond.  It has not been easy. Bubbles ! 3 pours or more. I have added coconut wax, beeswax, changed temps, altered fragrance load. So many things. I can't believe it is this challenging. Still not sure who where I will order my next pallet of wax from.  I really want to go all natural soy.  But it us getting the best of me.  Why is there not a decent wax that we can all work with?

I feel your pain. I have been using 415 since 2007 with no notable changes until the 2017 product. The wax is soooo different- fussy and bubbly, and the wicking is all changed. But, I love it now, it's creamier and I'm getting a terrific throw. Would have liked to have started with it all those years ago. It did almost cost me my season(and my mental health), I had to scale back and focus on my fundraisers only(limited fragrances/one jar).  Had I not already bought my stock for the year, I may have quit. Thankfully, because of the lovely people on this board, I was able to be prepared. I spent a little time on the phone/email with the gentleman at the AAK wax lab, who was very helpful and I got a sample before I ordered my pallet.

As a side note: Most of my customers love the frosting. They think it's cool and I sell it as characteristic of 100% soy.

1 hour ago, Candybee said:

I have a question re the split shipping. This has never happened to me personally so I don't know how the shipping section at checkout looks on their website. So for those that have experienced it is there an option at checkout to either go ahead and process the split warehouse shipping or delete one or the other so you only have those products from one warehouse ship out?

 

Or, do you have to delete product(s) hoping you figure out which is shipping from where so you only have one shipping amount?

 

I hope this question makes sense because it was hard to figure out how to ask it.

 

 

I was looking at an item on their site today and one size of the specific oil said 'ships from Nevada' under it. So, maybe that is a new and helpful option?

I kind of stumbled into this whole candle making  thing in 2007, with no plan at all. My original jar is still my biggest seller and I don't believe I've ever changed the label on that. It might sound weird, but I was going for a non- descript, generic looking product. I wanted my candle to stand on its own and fit any décor. I am in a very agricultural/rural area, and I was fighting the whole mason jar movement that everyone else was doing. Now I have probably 12 different jars- I have everything from canning jars to more contemporary tumblers. So, I would say, do the jar you like, and add the embellishments later if you decide to. Everything will definitely evolve. Maybe look into some of the more rustic looking lids for the masons? They do add some character.

Mine are:

Indiana Candle Supply

Candle Science

Natures Garden

I've loved Candlescience for a long time and still do! I did have a recent issue, but it worked out in the end. I pretty much just buy oils from them, occasional jars, but no wax or wicks. I must be in the right area to get my order in 2 days from NC with reasonably priced shipping. I'm waiting on my first order from the NV location, which will be 6 days, but over the long weekend, that was pricier shipping, for sure. The split shipping thing does bother me, I have almost fallen for it a few times. I can play with my cart until I find the offending product(s) and decide if I can live without.

After the terrible time I had last fall with my wax, I have had to look long and hard this year to decide what I can do with my candle business. I really can't quit, but I am going to try to streamline a little bit, and at the same time, add an oil supplier or two(since I'm re-testing everything anyway). Between what happened with Peak, the fire in Germany, and other iffy vibes, I feel it's prudent to spread the risk. I would rather pay a little more shipping to use several different suppliers, than be dependent on one or two for survival.

On ‎1‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 10:09 AM, moonshine said:

I told the person I was emailing with to come on this board and read all issues and complaints - I am still going back and forth with them by email 

I was told some of the people there have small candle and bath and body business and... no issues for them 🤷‍♀️ But she understands how frustrating that could be 

 

I just wish that they could be honest and own it or find useful information for us, you can read the very careful wording with the promise of looking into it but I was promised this back in the summer when I realized something was terrible wrong with the wax and got nothing 

 

we can't all be crazy and imagining this- right 

 

They have been a great supplier for me, I'm just not liking how this is all being swept under the rug 

A little honesty goes a long way. Just be straight with what we're dealing with, so we can figure out what we need to do. Too much to ask?

8 hours ago, moonshine said:

I do have to say she was very nice and seemed to understand my frustration but first time around they were also nice and seemed concerned and yet... people are still being told no complaints sad because I really used them for many things but I'm not sure I can anymore, a news article of some sort of issues coming up from customers would be great PR for them - we will see if they do it now or continue to wear blinders 

First let me say how much I love CS, love, love, love!! That being said, I had my own recent encounter with their customer service, the woman was super nice, but not terribly helpful. We went round and round for a while, and I ended up going around her and solved my own problem. Thankfully, I kept at it or I would be s*** of luck. Makes me wonder how really how much that person knows or is willing to actually find out. I actually gave her info she didn't have. I'm not saying it was her fault, maybe just poor communication all around. So, if you want info, be persistent.

I also would like to say that any suppliers out there(do they watch the boards?), could lose all credibility over this reformulation issue, I don't want to believe that they'd risk it. I do not keep 'all my eggs in one basket'. Yes, it would hurt to eliminate a favorite, long-term supplier, but I will have no problem washing my hands of them. As the saying goes - screw me once shame on you, screw me twice shame on me.

1 hour ago, jackbenimble said:

Hey guys! I contacted Candle Science this afternoon and was told that they will not be impacted by this fire as of now. If anything should impact then in the future they will notify by email and social media so that customers will know. 

Thanks for that info, I was just thinking I would contact them about it. Really didn't want to put my winter/spring fundraisers on hold. 

1 hour ago, moonshine said:

@Lighten Up

the CS lilac could be reformulated I would contact CS and ask them (not that your going to get the truth) but in my latest ongoing emails arguing there IS a problem with soy wax I asked them if they were going to publicly announce any changes in their fragrances due to the fire 

they claim it is not affecting them yet but when it does they WILL let their audience know but they Have been reformulating all their fragrances with phthalates to phthalate free, they have a few more to go so it's worth asking if lilac is one of them....I haven't been on the site lately to see where they might post this 

and for what it's worth JS LiLac was wonderful in 415 for me - back when 415 was 415 🤔

That is a good idea, but, I have to say, that almost every time(not necessarily CS), I have had to address an issue with a supplier, I have been shot down and the other elements of my candles were questioned and/or blamed. So, I guess I'm not very hopeful. The last CS Lilac I bought was Sept. '17, it wicks lovely in the old wax. Are you saying that if it has been reformulated, it may work for me now?

Just now, TallTayl said:

What gets me are the total untruths told to us by both manufacturers and retailers. Each has told me (and others) that they have not received any complaints. For real. 

Agreed!! I would not have been aware of it if not for this board. Thank you all!!!

10 minutes ago, kandlekrazy said:

I was also told by a supplier (not the mfg) that the reason each batch lot is performing different is they keep trying to get the waxes back to where they were using other ingredients.  Not sure I really believe this but then again every dang batch I get is a whole new experience.  I would think a mfg would do all these tests at once in house and then put out the product they feel worked the best.

When I first heard about these changes, I emailed my wax supplier, they said they were not aware of any changes or problems(really?). Thanks to Goldie, I was able to contact AAK and spoke to the wax lab about what was going on. Even though we are a secondary market, I do think they recognize us. Interesting to hear that it could still be changing - that could go on for a long time. I think the dates on the packing is used as the batch number, so there may be a way to find some consistency there. Thankfully, I buy by the pallet, but to think I could be going through this chaos every year is not pleasing at all.

11 hours ago, Moonstar said:

What's happening in the 415 

that it wasn't doing before?

im not a floral fan but I've used 

WSP lilac and it's super realistic but very strong.

I believe all soy waxes have been affected by the FDA removing the trans fats, therefore, it's like working with a totally new wax. I have been using 415 for 11 years, and I am now retesting everything. The consistency is totally different, much creamier and fussier to pour, thankfully, I'm still getting terrific throw.

Anyone have an opinion on Nature's Garden Lilac in soy? Sadly, I'm looking to replace mine(that I love) from CS, as I cannot get it to burn in this new 415.

I found myself burned out on candles this fall after having the year from hell. The new soy wax pushed me over the edge. Fortunately(or unfortunately) I had bought my supplies for the year an had huge orders to fill. Thankfully, I had a couple friends that got me through it (testing, labeling, and kicking me in the butt). I seriously would have quit if I could have. I had to prioritize to get through the season and as soon as the orders were out, I took a good break. I did almost no holiday candles, except for some layered with the old wax). Today is the first day I poured- mainly testers - in over 3 weeks. I did come to the realization that I could get by quite well with just my 16 fundraiser fragrances if I was too overwhelmed with all the rest.

19 hours ago, Daisymay66 said:

It don't smell like burnt popcorn to you? I've had so many peeps want this scent.. especially this 1 lady who I think messages me several time a week asking about it. I've tried ICS.. and several others.. all I get is burnt popcorn

It just smells like black coffee to me. I use it at 7% in 415 and it's one of my best sellers. I've easily sold 1500 of them over the last 11 years. I don't think it smells like burned popcorn, but I will see if I can notice that note next time I pour it. I do happen to like my popcorn a little burned... so there is that.  

I use Coffee Bean from Indiana Candle Supply in 415, terrific throw and also a great mixer.

13 hours ago, moonshine said:

That was very good they posted this...first supplier I have heard address it

Changes in the soy wax most were in denial even though many of us on the board complained and asked so it won't surprise me if they ignore and deny this as well

That's exactly why I am asking here. Thanks to you all(esp Goldie), I was able to salvage my fundraiser season with the new 415. I will be asking my oil suppliers flat out before making any orders. I don't think they'd lie?

42 minutes ago, olives said:

Brambleberry sent this email out yesterday:

 

What You Need to Know

Due to a shortage of an aroma chemical called citral, we will be temporarily reformulating some of our fragrance oils. We have a plan in place to address this situation. What happened On Oct. 31st, 2017, the production unit of a citral manufacturer caught on fire. There were no injuries but the factory was badly damaged. It's going to take several months to repair it before they can resume production. This manufacturer is a large supplier for the fragrance industry and citral is an essential component in certain scents. It smells like lemon, so it adds brightness to aroma blends. What this means for you Rather than putting the fragrances out of stock, our vendors will be reformulating them. They're working hard to make them as close to the original scent as possible. However, some may smell slightly different and may perform differently in cold process soap as well. This will affect the fragrances during 2018 and maybe into 2019. Our plan of action As soon as we get the reformulation in, Caitlin and Lara in our research department will test it in cold process soap. Once we know how it performs and we run out of the previous formulation, we will update the product page with testing notes compared to the old version. We will also describe any difference in smell.

Thanks for posting this. Nice that they got out in front of it, I am interested to see how other suppliers are handling this, as well.

Are there any updates on this? Anyone encountering problems yet?