chuck, in a desperate attempt to get REAL bright red in CP or HP I tried relay race. I was NOT impressed. Even with Titanium it did no better then the POP reds. I hope you have better luck, if you do, tell me how please. As for what I use, almost nothing but TKB's POP colors at this point. Though I still have liquid dyes from C&S in just about every color, I've found that they're not reliable to hold true in HP (don't know if I've tried them in CP). So if I decide to use those, I'm usually having an all-about-me soaping session and I put color in first, see what color it turns into THEN pick a scent to match it. I've had the green turn reddish brown, I think purple turned pink, can't remember how each of them turned out now but that's when I decide to do surprise scents just for me and run like heck once I figure out what color it turns to get my scent picked, weighed, and in the pot.