Jeana

27 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

I get cracks in upper layers too. The rest of the candle is too cold and the melted top wax cracks as it cools rapidly.  Happens when I do a second pour to level or repair caverns often when the temps are cold in the shop. 

I don't think that 70-75 is cold really. Last year it was way colder in my shop than this year. The room temp would be around 60-65 and I didn't have any cracks on the top or the bottom layers.

I just pulled a tester from the order I just made and it is burning hotter than it should be. It's not enough to wick down, but I just hope people are trimming their candles  

On 3/17/2018 at 11:36 AM, Trappeur said:

What wick style are you using in 6006 Clear Black?

 

Wow it's about double 464 in price...For me selling wholesale, I could never up my prices to the shops....

 

You know I hate to put this out there after so much discussion is going on about all these waxes and the problems that everyone is having and so many switching to other waxes but I have upped my percentage of oils to 1.2 or 1.3 oz per pound of wax and I am having just wonderful luck (knock on wood) with awesome throws.....I'm absorbing this extra cost of goods for right now as I can't possibly change my wholesale pricing...well, not right now.

 

Trappeur

Depending on the price of your FO, and how much your are increasing it, it can add up to an additional .20 to each candle, or more. If I switch over completely to one of my easier to get Paraffins it will be .31 per candle more. That's not much different. Don't you have to retest everything when you are adding more FO anyway?

I just started playing with 4630 because I have it on hand, and I have used it for years to mix with 464. I have rarely seen consistency issues with it over the years. Right away I noticed the throw puts my soy candles to shame . If I switch over there wouldn't be problems with frosting, cracking, or varying batches of wax. I feel this would be worth the .31 more per candle.  

On 3/17/2018 at 8:38 AM, birdcharm said:

 

I'm still curious about this question as well, and I too have asked, so I'm hoping @Jeana will tell us at what temperature this wax is cracking so we all know what temps to avoid. 

I've still been pouring my wax from last fall at 140-150 and haven't experienced any issues with it, so I'm wondering if this is now something to be concerned with in purchasing newer stock.  Also, I've never had 464 ( 5702-02-02 ) frost, even after burn sessions, it rarely does so, although I have had 415 ( 5715-00-77) and 444 (5715-02-02) do that a bit after burning the candle.

 

Jeana ... at what temperature did you pour the candles that experienced cracking?

 

P.S.  I'd like to add that I really don't think frosting is so bad, kind of like the wet spots, it's just part of what this stuff is, I guess.

 

This is a layered candle. The bottom part was poured about 175-185, I always pour the colored part this hot or hotter. I' don't check the temp every time I pour. The top part (the part in the pic) was poured no hotter than 135. The next set I poured I did the tops even cooler, like around 125. I still had lots of cracks around the sides. I was able to repair them, but took more time than should have to finish the order. My shop was still around 70-75 for the next set of candles too. 

I ran a test on one of these latest candles and they are burning hotter. That is frustrating too. So not only am I getting the visual issues of the wax, now I see it is burning differently too. 

22 minutes ago, LittleMissSunshine said:

I have been having this thought a lot lately, and this thread only makes me feel it even stronger.....if soy is so bad/frustrating/poor quality/etc. then is 6006/parasoy even worth it? Even with a little bit of soy? Wouldn't pure paraffin just be better? What reasons would you have for doing parasoy at all over just pure paraffin? 

That's why I started this topic to hear what people have to say about some paraffins on their own. I know I see smooth creamy paraffin candles in stores all the time. I have played with various types of it before. All the ones I've tried are hard, and don't look any better than soy. They seem hazy where they have pulled away from the glass, which doesn't look too different from frost on soy. The ones I've tried don't crack though so that seems like a bonus. But that's why I've alway turned back to soy or soy blends. 

I also started this topic to see if Paraffins have the same trouble with varied batches. 

Does anyone use 4730 by itself? I haven't tried that one alone. 

9 hours ago, birdcharm said:

 

I'm still on the order I received late last fall ('17) from Candlewic, so maybe there were some changes in the wax over the winter.  The pouring temperature is what also comes to mind in regard to cracks, maybe the new soy is more finicky in that regard.

 

 I had some very good batches in the fall. The bad ones started in Dec. and have gradually gotten worse. 

11 hours ago, GoodScents said:

I actually have been doing a blend of 75% 464 and 25% 4630 for over 4 years now. Those cracks happen to me ALLL the time! It's always attributed to cold glassware and/or a cold house. I also have one fragrance blend that does it every single time. It got better when I mix some 4627 in with the other 2. I also found that pouring much hotter made a huge difference if, when, and how bad they would crack. I pour between 165-170 now and have just about eliminated the cracking except for in the 1 fragrance blend, if it wasn't my best seller I'd kick it to the curb already!

I know it's frustrating when the wax seems different with every new batch you get, but it is a raw material that you have to work with and manipulate to make it do what you want. Do you think Yankee candle backs up their tanker cars of wax and just start pouring candles????? They have an entire department dedicated to testing new lots, figuring out fragrance loads and pour temp, etc. I realize that's not realistic for us smaller companies, especially if you're a one person operation, but you can make 1 candle initially to see if you need to make any changes. I do that and it has saved me a lot of time and heart ache over the years!

Jeana I'm happy to chat more about your blend if you'd like, I played around with the ratios for awhile before I found the one that works best for me. That may be easier than jumping ship and starting all over from scratch!

Thank you, but if I stay with 464 at all I'll be mixing it with something other than 4630. I've been getting some good results with mixing CB#9 when it comes to helping the look and behavior of 464, but now I'm dealing with the zero scent throw. There is no cure to that other than switch to a higher quality of wax. 

I always pour hot. Usually I get far less frosting pouring hot. 

I open several new 464 cases each week, all with different batch numbers. There is no way I could test all those boxes each time I open one. Even if I did, what a waste of time to try to perfect each batch of candles for each box I open. That's impossible to make any money that way. I have had delay some very large accounts as it is by some of the changes I see. They aren't happy when I do that. And it costs me thousands of dollars to delay my orders. There should be higher quality control on these waxes. They don't care they get their money and walk away. 

@moonshine I was planning on going with either 415 or 444 because I heard there were less issues with them. I'm glad I didn't. I did a few tests with them and they were far less quality that 464, so I stayed with what I know.  Where do you get your coconut wax from? I just ordered a sample of a coconut blend from Cal candle supply. And I ordered a sample of one of their straight paraffins. There are too many reviews of 6006 sooting so badly I'm afraid to try that. No one trims their wicks so I know I can't make a candle counting on that LOL. 

Is Nature wax the only manufacturer of coconut wax? I see that it is to be poured very hot 200+. That's a little hard to maintain that temp when pouring many at a time isn't it?

Moonshine, I mix with a little paraffin, but I’ve used the same recipe for about 7years. I have the exact same recipe and scent hanging around in my shop from other batches of 464 that look great. Smooth, creamy and soft, with no frosting at all. That’s why I know it’s not me, it’s the wax. 

Funny you mention the coconut wax. I have my eye on some from California candle supply. http://calcandlesupply.com/sc-21-wax-coconut-hybrid-blend/  It’s more expensive that’s for sure, but if it’s higher quality and more consistent it could be worth it. 

I hope you can find your new wax soon. I don’t get it, soy used to be very consistent until about 3 years ago. Now you never know what you’ll get, especially with Golden brand waxes. 

2 hours ago, birdcharm said:

I wonder what is causing the large cracks ...?  I've been pouring this wax, and I admit, I now add a bit of stearic and up'd my scent to about 8%, but I haven't been experiencing these drastic issues.  Also, I haven't had much frosting.  Sometimes I think it might be the climate, the humidity, temperature, etc., that is resulting in some of these differences in results.

 

 

When was the last time you bought your 464? And where did you get it? I get mine from Candlescience. Maybe yours were from later last year. Those were good batches. The batches I've had trouble with lately were made in Jan. The case I had from Dec had a lot of frost issues, but no cracks. the photo is an example of one of the cracks. There were other cracks inside the candle too. CS says it was because my wax cooled too quickly. It was 75 degrees in my shop the entire time I was pouring and when it was setting up. I literally make hundreds of these candles every month, and have been for about 7 years, so I can definitely tell when it's me or the wax.  

Plus, the throw is pretty much zero lately. I thought it was the testers I was doing, but when I looked up reviews. I see many people are having this issue. Look at CS reviews of 464. There is a man on there that was buying pallets of it. He was having all the same issues I have had. I've always been afraid to buy a pallet because I feel like I would be stuck with several boxes of crappy wax. There are even people in the veggie section of this forum that are having the same issues I am. 

That's why I want to have an opened mind and try more paraffins. I always heard they weren't as temperamental. 

1 hour ago, kfintoni said:

Yes it can do larger labels I am just not sure on the size maximum off hand. The label that is printing is 2x4. I buy ink roughly one a year in the colors but have to purchase usually an additional black cartridge. I think it is about $110 for a pack of all 4 cartridges. I love it and though originally had a bit of buyers remorse over the price I do not regret it one bit.

 

Karen in MA

That's actually not bad at all for the ink. Much cheaper than I expected. 

14 minutes ago, runner14jc said:

Hi Jeana! Have you ever tried the IGI 6006, it is a pre-blended parasoy. Or, you could always create your own blend. If you have 464 left, you could blend it with a paraffin wax like the IGI 4630. That way you could control the ratios and see what works best for you. Alternatively, if you prefer to switch straight up to paraffin the IGI 4630 or IGI 4627 work beautifully. The 4630 comes in a slab and the 4627 is super soft so comes in a bag and needs to be almost scooped out (yes, it's a bit messy but produces some great results). For West coast suppliers, I know CandleScience has a warehouse in Nevada. I've heard there is a supplier in southern California but I'm not sure the name but you might be able to find it with some searching. Hope this helps!

I actually mix 464 with 4630 now. Sometimes it makes it worse. Like right now it is making it harder, which I think is contributing to the cracking. I order from Candlescience right now. They have the 4627 and 6006. Their reviews complain about the 6006 having a lot of soot, and inconsistencies of batches too. I saw 4633 too I may order a sample of that one next time. I have tried the 4627. I found it hard to wick.

Have you personally used the 6006?

When I go to the candle isle at different stores, I get so jealous of how nice, creamy, and consistent other people's candles look.  I have candle envy lol.

I am so tired of dealing with the batch to batch changes of 464 soy wax. I've used it for the last 10 years, but I can't take it anymore. I have very large cracks and zero hot throw this time. Last month it was extreme frosting (I have to color one accounts). Its so embarrassing to tell your accounts you can't help how crappy their candles look and throw. It's because the wax changed AGAIN. It's driving me crazy. Can anyone recommend a smooth creamy paraffin or para/soy? I want something consistent. Is that even possible with any wax? I'm on the west coast so It would be nice to have distributor if possible. 

On 2/26/2018 at 6:22 AM, kfintoni said:

 

Thank you for posting this. It is so nice and smooth. Boy, this would be so nice. Can it do larger labels, like the cigar band type? I only see label machines printing small labels. And how is the ink? Does it go fast? Is it expensive to buy the cartridges? 

11 hours ago, kfintoni said:

I also have a Primera printer, I have the LX 900. It was a bit of sticker shock but i do not regret it at all. I love not having to deal with printer drift and the ink last forever, I have run my ink all the way down to 1% left before changing them.

 

Karen in MA

So I looked this up and its around $3000. Wow, I wish I could get one of those. Maybe one day  It looks like it does a great job. You can post some videos to make us jealous, LOL. 

Sorry for another Cotton core question, but still testing to replace the ones I was using from Peak. I found a couple sizes that are going great with the exception that they start to lean over, even when the wick is anchored. And the melt pool isn't too deep, or even complete yet. I got the samples from Candle Wic and they do offer high melt point wax priming, which I think could help, but only by custom order, with a minimum of 500 wicks. That's a big commitment for just starting to use these wicks.

Does anyone have any hints to keep them from leaning over? Or does anyone know of a supplier that sells the cotton cores with the high melt point priming at lower quantities? I'm using a soy wax, with the standard 2.75" - 3" diameter. 

2 hours ago, Sarah S said:

 

The Cricuit could cut those, sure, but hundreds....gosh, I don't even want to think about how many hours of your life that would waste. I'd second the suggestions of a cigar band with a rectangular label over it. I use both Maestro, the Onlinelables program, and the Avery program and I'm quite happy with them. I can do a dozen of one scent, dozen of another easily, or whip out a couple hundred warning labels at one time if I want. Sometimes I have alignment issues but that's outweighed by the overall convenience for me.

I'm going to try Maestro/Onlinelabels again. I saw they have extensive info for lining up printers now. I'm crossing my fingers it works this time. 

On 1/26/2018 at 6:47 AM, TallTayl said:

I chose the lx500. It is a little slow compared to my laser, but so much more accurate and reliable. 

 

They are always available on ebay, and have terrific resale value. I resisted for 10 years and am kicking myself for it.

 

my laser printer does not always line up perfectly any more as it is quite old. I can't give it up since no others will print on my glossy stock well enough. The minor alignment use to bother me, but nobody else even noticed.

Ok, thank you. Ill look at that. 

2 hours ago, Barefootgirl said:

Maybe try to reach out to any local crafty friends who owns one and spend a afternoon over there and give it a whirl. Hands on is the best way to see if it actually works like you vision it will. Honestly I agree with others it's not a good plan for such a large run. I do think it's best to try another method as well.  But, if your anything like me I'm stubborn and never will shake the thought that it will indeed work like I envisioned...so I have to get my hands in there and see for myself. 

Unfortunately I don’t have any friends who are crafty. But I may try to find some “how to” classes in my area. I would like to see it work, I’m still curious. I guess I am a little like you

3 hours ago, Barefootgirl said:

Another option is to buy multiple machines which still has the time to load and remove the finished product. Cost and production time I don’t see it being favorable as others mentioned in this application. Another thought is a die cutter? I don’t have much knowledge on them but that’s an alternative option. 

Gosh one would be pushing it for me right now, lol. I guess I need to look in another direction. 

3 hours ago, TallTayl said:

I had the same suggestion in mind - cut a normal band and seal with a rectangle label. 

 

just broke down and bought a primera printer (at moonshine's urging). Never have to worry about lining up labels and cutting ever again. 

I'm going to try online labels again. I have a different printer now so maybe I'll get lucky with alignment this time. They have a couple nice band labels I haven't seen before like in the pic I posted. They are still a little expensive when you add up hundreds of them, and something else to make sure I have in stock. 

The  printer you got sounds very interesting. Which model did you get. They look very pricey, but I have to move toward something like this soon I'm sure. I get really tired of DIY everything. 

10 hours ago, Shari said:

I had never heard of it until now.  Gimp is what I've been toying with.  I stink at labels though.  I know many use the program Maestro that comes free with a purchase from www.onlinelabels.com. 

I downloaded Gimp. It's a little intimidating. And I tried Maestro before. I have one of those printers that won't line up with the template, so I usually print on full sheet and cut them myself. I want to get away from that now. 

I'm not super good at labels, but one thing that helps me for design and content ideas is to go into stores and take notes on what I like and don't like on the labels of products similar to what I'm trying to label. It helps me to be more creative, and has helped my labels look more professional on content. I've got a long way to go on the actual labels themselves though. (Printing and shape)

9 hours ago, TallTayl said:

I use a range of products for different elements of my labels. Microsoft office products are pretty handy,and easy, if you are already using them.  

 

Gimp is useful to modify clip art or other images, like to layer and create transparent backgrounds.

 

powerpoint I use to layer other items, like text over gradient backgrounds as it is second nature to me. I use very old versions of ms office, so I think word can do he same now, my version cannot. 

 

Word is super easy easy to create sheets of the same label.

I've tried so many time to do labels in word. I can't get the hang of it at all. I keep going back to my VERY old label program I've been using for years. It's such a limited program though. I didn't think of using powerpoint for the gradient backgrounds. Something to think about. 

This is something that would be nice to be able to do. I was thinking the Cricut would be good for this. Is there another way to make a modified type of cigar band?

10 hours ago, Sarah S said:

It's been forever since I've busted out with my Cricuit, but I remember it being sloooooow, fine for a few embellishments or lettering for a scrapbook page, but I can't imagine trying to do sheets and sheets of labels. But my machine is pretty old, maybe the newer ones are better. I always just used the cartridges with mine, but again, it's been a while.

From what I'm seeing, the newest model is 2x faster than the last model made. Can you cut more than one sheet at a time? I'm just wanting to do different types of cigar band label styles for soap, nothing intricate. They don't have cartridges its all online now. I've never seen one at work in person, so I still don't get exactly everything works 

9 hours ago, TallTayl said:

Those machines are great - but insanely slow. I can't imagine using them for production of any real volume. 

I've been doing 300-900 soap labels at a time by hand with a slicer for years now. It has to be faster than by hand right? Maybe it isn't LOL. But I want to get more creative with my soap labels now. Since I have many different accounts, and they change their products all the time, I can't see buying labels from a printer. I can see getting stuck with a lot of extras. Not sure how to handle this.