KBar4616

I think I still have a couple pounds in my inventory that I'm clearing out... PM me if you're still needing it and interested! Hugs! Kerri

I'll ditto that!!! It's true that the first step to recovery is admitting that you have a problem... I admit it freely!! The thing is... I'm not so sure I want to be 'cured'!!!

Only if Vin Diesel happens to be at the bank doing an appearance and signing autographs!!!! :drool: And thank you Lori, I'm really looking forward to it... after being in front of the computer for the last 3 years doing business, it will be a nice change to be in front of live people again!!! LOL Hugs! Kerri

I know... and that's why I went ahead and posted what I did... I didn't take it as a personal attack on myself or on Stacy as individuals... I just know that *most* small suppliers are in the same situation. The fact of the matter is that manufacturers are raising their prices, because the cost of everything is going up. If the manufacturer that you (and I mean collectively, not you personally, funky! ) use hasn't announced a price increase yet, I'm sure they will soon. It may not be the 10% that IFT and some of the other ones have announced for April, but I'm sure it will be something. The cost of raw materials is going up, gas is up (again!!! ), everything is going up, and eventually the price increase trickles down to the consumer, in ALL aspects of business and buying. No company can indefinitely eat cost increases and continue to stay in business. Eventually these costs have to be absorbed into the retail price. As far as buying from a smaller supplier in bulk... well, I can't speak for Stacy, but that had always been an option with me. But no one ever requested a quote for a bulk rate. Again, none of my posts were done with the intent to insult or make anyone angry... I just felt that *some* posts insinuated that Stacy was getting some outrageous markup profit on her oils and that they were outrageously priced, and that is not the case at all. I went through her site again last night and found her oils to be very comparable, especially with other smaller, high-quality suppliers like Tony's or Oregon Trails. The value of something can only be measured by the desire in which someone wants it. My husband and I have a 1978 Chevy Nova that we were going to restore, and now have changed our minds and want to restore a baja VW bug instead. We looked at one last night to consider trading the Nova for it... it's a 1969 baja bug, tore-up engine, rusted floor, beat-up seats, etc. I said the same thing to him when he asked me if it was worth the trade... the value is dependant upon the person who wants it... it all depends on what it's worth to you.

Well, I know I said I was done posting on this thread, but to clarify a few points I made in my last post, I changed my mind Not at all.... nobody is asking for your pity! Either you missed my point or I didn't explain myself clearly enough... both of which are possible I'll explain better in the next paragraph..... I'm not talking about oils that are comparable, that's my point. The larger suppliers have to make a larger profit margin to cover their overhead, and therefore need oils that are not as expensive... and I'm sorry, you can bash me if you wish, but this means a lower quality. Why do you think places like SOS have different 'grades' of oils? It's about the quality of the oils... higher quality means higher price. You think the 'supplier' market isn't saturated with competition?!? Look around... everyone these days is doing co-ops and buys... I mean, if you think we aren't affected by having to add 10% increase to our prices as suppliers, then this discussion wouldn't be necessary! I'll give you an example of what I'm talking about... when I first announced I was no longer going to stock oils and only offer them in prebuys, there were a lot of people who were disappointed or upset by that decision because it meant that they had to wait for a buy in order to get the oils that they used from me. They would have to budget their expenses, stock up when the buy was on and if they ran out, they were out of luck until the next buy. THAT is what I was talking about... suppliers who keep oils in stock on a regular basis have expenses that co-op'ers DON'T. And you have to expect to pay for that convenience of being able to order it when you need it and how much you need. I don't know of many co-ops that offer oils in 1oz, 2oz or 4oz sizes! The same cycle that you described above for chandlers is the same cycle for suppliers. What I'm talking about is the hypocracy that usually accompanies these types of scenarios.... for example; I've seen this happen over and over again, even in my own supply business. Customer A posts that they are looking for, let's say, Love Spell FO. Someone suggests Small Supplier because their FO's are excellent. Customer A goes to the website and sees that Small Supplier does carry Love Spell, but it's $20 per pound. They can get it from Large Supplier for $12 per pound. So they buy it from Large Supplier. Then the next week, they are on the lists complaining that the Love Spell they bought from Large Supplier seized their soap, or they can't smell it at all in their candle, and so they wasted the $12 on the cheaper FO. So they go back to Small Supplier to order the higher quality FO, but find that Small Supplier has sold their business to Large Supplier, because everyone wants $12 FO's. So they order the Small Supplier FO from Large Supplier, and then find that it's been reformulated to a cheaper costing oil (because Large Supplier has a bigger profit margin, remember) so now it still isn't the quality they want, but it's the same price as Small Supplier was charging in the first place! And then it's back to the lists to complain about how all the smaller suppliers are going out of business and selling out to the larger ones. And so the circle begins again. Anyone is welcome to buy from wherever they want. My point was that if people want the cheaper oils, then they shouldn't complain when they have to wait on a co-op or buy in order to get them, because you can't expect a supplier to have all their money tied up in oils waiting for them to be purchased, and not get any profit from that. Even banks charge interest. Actually, I believe I said SOAPMAKING needs better quality FO's, and that is a fact. I've never had an FO cause my candle wax to seize.... maybe someone else has?

This is not always true. In fact, in 3 years of selling fragrance oils as a supplier, I have NEVER received oils by pallet or by freight... the only thing I ever received by pallet or freight were chemicals... 55-gallon drums of cyclomethicone or DPG, or Foaming Bath Butter. My oils have ALWAYS been shipped to me via UPS, DHL or FedEx, from the manufacturers. And this is on orders of 20+ different fragrances, in 25+ pound quantities per fragrance. You are correct that shipping is part of business... which is why, when shipping costs go up, so do the costs of your products. A business owner can only 'eat' so much of these costs before it begins being detrimental to their business. I don't know why you haven't heard of any manufacturer price increases... perhaps you don't use the same manufacturers? And it is not only the manufacturers I use... I also know that IFT is raising their prices 10% on April 1st as well... if you use them and you haven't been notified, maybe you don't order often? Call them and ask, if you don't believe me. And I know that LOTS of folks do IFT co-ops on here, so their prices will be going up as well. And yes, anyone can have any scent duplicated by most manufacturers, you are correct. But a dupe is not the same as the scent that the original supplier is selling. You know, one of the things that I find so ironic about this whole industry is exactly what is being discussed here.... I can read one thread where a candlemaker is venting because customers complain that their candles are too expensive... they can buy candles at Walmart for half the price (of course, they're half the quality... but who's taking notes?). And then in the very next thread, you can see that same poster complaining about the price of some supplier's fragrance oils, saying they can buy them cheaper somewhere else or have them duped and do a co-op... but then when they do that, and therefore shut out businesses like Longwyck's, or any of the other smaller FO suppliers that have sold out to the 'big guys' or gone out of business in the last year, they whine and complain about THAT as well. When you do a co-op, you have one person designated to collect orders and monies, pour the oils and send them out. While that is a LOT of work (and trust me, you don't know HOW much work it is until you actually DO it!), that's all there is to a co-op... select, small quantities and in one bulk swoop. But that's only part of what a supplier does. When you purchase from a supplier, THEY have fronted the money to purchase the oils, THEY pay the overhead for storing those oils, waiting for YOU to purchase them, and basically have their money sitting in oils until someone buys it. You pay for the convenience of only having to purchase what you need, when you need it. And, as I said previously... suppliers are NOT in this for just fun and games... it is a BUSINESS and they are trying to make a profit as well, JUST LIKE most of you. I am all for everyone trying to get the best buy for their money... we all do it and we would be poor business owners if we didn't. But don't knock suppliers for trying to make a LIVING at what they do... or at the very least help support their crafting habit. You don't know what their costs are for selling those oils. If I had an oil that cost $16 per pound and I sell it for $20 per pound, that's not even a 50% profit margin... which SUCKS. I sell my candles and soaps for at least 2X or 3X what it costs me to make them, otherwise why bother??? Suppliers don't make that kind of profit... at least, not the smaller ones. Now, I'm sorry if any of this comes across as rude or bitchy, but this has really irked me for a while now. If anyone thinks it's so easy and lucrative, I invite anyone to become a fragrance oil supplier... sink thousands of dollars into inventory in oils; and then hundreds more into the materials you need to test each and every fragrance you carry; spend hours and hours online advertising your business and building a reputation; hundreds of dollars and hours of time in either creating or designing your website, finding adequate storage space for drums and drums of oils, bottles, scales, shipping and packaging supplies; and then devote MORE hours of your time answering and responding to emails from customers, some of who complain about how much it costs to ship their orders or that your oils cost too much; and MAYBE add in a few cents for your *time* (NOT!), and see what you think it is all worth. I guarantee you that it is NOT all rosy on the other side, and it takes a LOT of WORK, TIME, EFFORT and DEVOTION to be a supplier in this industry, NONE of which you actually get paid for!!! I'm just thankful that I had customers who appreciated my time, effort, work and devotion and SHOWED that they appreciated it, or I wouldn't have stuck it out as long as I did, because it was THOSE customers that I was concerned with when I decided to not do it anymore! THEY were the ones who made all of it worth while! Now, I am done posting in this thread, which has totally gotten off-topic... but I will end by saying that Stacy is one of the best suppliers I know, her oils are top-notch and worth EVERY penny she has to charge for them (and her prices are NOT outrageous at all on her standard line), and I am proud and pleased that she has added the Serendipities Scents oils to her product line, because all of the TIME and EFFORT that I put into it (and did NOT get paid for!!) deserves to go to another supplier with the same devotion and commitment to quality oils... because trust me, if we ONLY did this for the money, NONE of us would be doing it!!!

Hey y'all! Just wanted to add a little info here... even if I had kept Serendipities, my prices would have gone up 10% also effective April 1st. I received letters from two of my manufacturers (very large, worldwide manufacturers) that their prices were going up 10% on April 1, which is why I would have had to increase prices, and why DayStar is having to raise their prices as well. Other suppliers may not have raised their prices yet, but look for it to probably happen soon. With the recent storms and weird weather we've had this year, lots of citrus crops were destroyed and the price of citrus additives will therefore go up as well. Also, remember that both Serendipities and DayStar are smaller supply businesses and do not have the buying power that larger companies like Bittercreek, etc. do. While they may buy their oils in drums of 55 gallon or more, therefore getting a larger quantity price break, we buy ours more in quantities of 35 pounds or so. And last, but certainly not least, remember also that you do get what you pay for The prices I charged for my oils were not cheap... but that's because my oils were not cheap, and they weren't cheap to me, either. I will tell you that with this 10% price increase on April 1 from the manufacturer, I had at least 3 oils that will be close to $17 per pound MY COST, that's BEFORE adding on cost of shipping the oil to me, cost of the bottles, labels, tape, etc. And don't forget, no supplier is doing this just for fun... while I can guarantee none of us are getting rich from selling fragrance oils, it is nice to try and make a little bit of profit for your time and effort... it IS a business too! I do know that it's harder for chandlers to justify the cost of some of the more expensive oils that are proven to work in soap... the fact is, candlemakers don't need the kind of quality oils that soapmakers do to make a good candle. The oils just don't take the same beating in wax as they do in lye But, it has been my experience that the oils that hold up so well in soap also kick butt in wax, and need less oil per pound of wax to do it... so again, sometimes the extra price is worth the quality, both for soaps and candles. I hope none of this comes across sounding harsh or that anyone takes offense... that's not my intent at all. I just think sometimes people forget that suppliers do this as a business as well, and just like you they would like to make a profit doing what they love. And usually the smaller-scale suppliers are making the least amount of profit, because they have the least amount of markup on their oils to try and stay competitive. It's hard, I know... but as a soapmaker and chandler myself, I say with all sincerity that I'll take a more expensive quality oil over the cheap stuff any day! I have wasted more money than I care to add up on oils that were GREAT in price, but SUCKED in quality.... and I learned my lesson!! Hugs! Kerri

Those are GORGEOUS!!!! How on earth did you do that Acid Trip? And what's it smell like? Hugs! Kerri

The Juicy Pink Grapefruit will be on our March buy! I know doing the prebuys is not as convenient, but I'm opening a retail storefront for my candles/soaps and can't stock the supplies full-time any longer. It was either switch to bi-monthly prebuys or take them off the market completely. My group customers voted to do the prebuys We will have 3 or 4 slots every prebuy for customers to let me know what else they are needing that may not be in the scheduled buy. Just like this Axe buy... it was not scheduled, but I had so many needing the Kilo, Essence and Snake Peel that I did a special buy just for them. I promise I will do whatever I can to make sure you get what you need! Hugs! Kerri

Wow, thanks for all the good advice!! I'll see what I can do, but since I already left her good feedback I dont' have much of a barganing chip LOL I have been on ebay for a while, but not really as a seller... I mostly bought stuff before. When I first started making candles a few years ago, I tried selling on eBay but only sold one candle! This time, I've been selling on ebay for a few months and have been doing great, I'm very pleased. My local and online website sales are always good, but it's nice to do well on eBay too! Thanks again for the tips!! Hugs! Kerri

Hey Lindsay! Gosh no... that recipe will do about 6 or more tubs, depending on how much you want to put in it! It's kind of up to you... you can also play around with how much polyacrylates you add to it... the more you add, the thicker it will be. I kind of preferred it a little more 'slushy' instead of really thick, so I added the 3 cups. But if you like it thicker, you can add more! The fun part is experimenting with it! Also, I don't want to take credit for something I didn't create... it's not really 'my' recipe. A nice lady named Carla shared it with us on the soap groups last summer! HTH! Hugs, Kerri

Hey Bunny! The polyacrylates are from www.watersorb.com Order the powdered kind! HTH!

PM sent!

That's where the salt comes in.... you sprinkle salt over the top of the gelle and it starts to dissolve. You can stir it with your hand to speed up the process a little bit. I used a mixture of mineral sea salts and dendritic salt to dissolve mine, but any kind of salt works, even table salt. So you can still soak even while it's dissolving. If it doesn't dissolve enough, just add more salt! Hugs! Kerri

Just a little FYI... plain cyclomethicone is prohibited from being shipped by air. Not sure about how the shipping rules change with the percentages or mixtures, etc. when mixed with FCO or other B&B products... but I know that plain cyclo has to go ground shipping. HTH!! Hugs! Kerri