Stella1952

Not happy with these candles at all I have to say

Richard, I don't blame you! The 22 is too small, plain and simple. The 24 looks a little better, but you may have to go up another size to get a good burn. What I really don't like is how the shoulders of the apothecary are causing the ugly lumpy frosting on the hangup. The country clothesline up top really has a strange burn pattern and the soot on the surface of the candle is disturbing...

The coco mango looks like the oil is separating... is that the case?

Jeeze - no wonder you are disheartened!! Just a thought... did you pour any smaller candles or ones with no dye or FO? Except for the shine on the surface, that doesn't resemble the single wicked C3 candles I have poured! I think you may need to add some USA or something to help tame it! What was the melting and pouring temp on those?

Are you suggesting that in some cases increasing wick size can 'burn off' the components that may not be burning properly and causing the shroom?

It is more common to see shrooms because of overwicking, but what is the culprit is really inefficient combustion, which can happen either way up or down. I think in some extreme cases, it has a lot to do with incombustible impurities in the wax, too much FO, too much dye, etc.

Bart, below is a link to my favorite pics of 'shrooming.

http://www.heinzverhaegh.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/WickSelectionTwo.jpg

The round candle on the right in the first row is getting a little "shroomy." The pink candle on the right in the second row, could eat goats, German shepherds and small children. That must be one of those prized "fragrance balls." :rolleyes2:lipsrseal

Here's another set of gross wick pictures...

http://www.wicksunlimited.com/burn_issues.php

Somewhere a year or two ago, someone started a thread about posting one's worst mushrooms ever - it was truly scary!!

I added Palm Container wax - not pillar. It should not have had the shrinking characteristics of the pillar palm.

While container palm wax doesn't shrink as much, it will still shrink enough to let go sometimes and rattle in the container - that's pretty characteristic of palm wax. One school of thought about mitigating wet spots is to have the entire candle shrink away from the glass slightly (that's where palm wax comes in). But you do want it to be all or nothing... It's always interesting to see how things will work!

Sharon, one tilts the container, just as with pillar candles made like this. I secure mine in the bottom of a bucket with moist sand in the bottom. Other people have wonderful *rigs & jigs* to do this. You pour a layer, let it set up until it's solid enough to support the following one, etc.

I have been working in my garage for these. So I have to use the heat gun on every layer to make it crystalize. Once you put the wax in, it frosts up the side, but no crystals

Bless your heart!! It's hard to keep everything balanced when doing palm layers for the crystals to come out perfectly each time. You did a GREAT job!! :-)

I think I know what everyone is saying about using the pin but I have a feeling I'll have to figure it out once I have everything in hand.

LOLOL I totally resembled that remark! I remember holding the wick pin in one hand and the mold in the other and having many WTF moments... Holler if you get stuck!

Oh - if your mold has a hole and you choose to use the wick pin on the inside and not on the outside (where the pin threads through the hole), a dab of mold putty and a crisscross of the shiny metal ducting tape (NOT duct tape - the real metal, shiny stuff) will seal the hold quite nicely.

I haven't run in to this problem with vegetable wax or my paraffin pillar wax before

That's not a problem - the way your candles WERE burning was the problem.

Wicks tabs will not act as safety devices if they are not sealed to the bottom of the container; otherwise they can continue sucking the liquid wax from underneath until there is none left. This is very dangerous and should be avoided in your candle design.

THe National Candle Association recommends that container candles be extinguished when there is only 1/2" of wax remaining. There's a reason they came up with that number...

I hope you'll read up on that and other aspects of candlemaking here so you can make candles which are reasonably safe for your own use as well as for gifting to others. HTH :-)

USA = Universal Soy Additive = distilled monoglycerides This is a food industry additive carried by very few suppliers. Be sure you get USA and not UA, which is for paraffin. There IS a difference.

Regarding mushrooming: In the absense of a photo, whether this is any real concern depends on how we're defining problematic mushrooms. If the *mushrooms* appear as 3 little balls at the tip of the wick that are not more than twice as large as the strand of the wick they are on, this isn't a wrist-slitter. If, however, the little balls are coagulating into a larger mass of carbon that's glowing and increasing the heat in the container (aka the *fragrance balls* touted by morons to make the throw on their candles so special), that needs action.

Mushrooming happens for many different reasons...

Is the flame hot enough to fully combust the wax & additives (dyes, FOs, etc.)?

Is the wick too large and starving for air?

Would the wick self-trim if left alone?

CDNs and CDs are self-trimming wicks so their posture should curve enough to keep the wick tip in the hottest zone of the flame. If incombustible impurities collect at the wick tip (little balls) they usually fall off or self-trim as the wick burns but when something is wonky, these 'shrooms become larger and larger and larger until they threaten to eat New York City.

I am assuming that during your testing, you are trimming the wick to 1/4" before beginning a new test session... After burning for several hours (particularly a big candle with a big wick), it isn't uncommon to see some minor 'shrooms as described above. This also occurs during a powerburn and unless there is something really *off* about the wax (the FO, additives, dyes, amounts, etc.), this usually self-trims well enough to fall in the acceptable range. :-)

I did try some C3/palm blends unwicked in metro jars to see how the addition of palm affected pouring - I got a lot of wet spot issues although the surfaces were good

If you are talking about blending C3 and pillar style palm wax, I am not surprised the wet spots were worse - pillar style palm wax is designed to shrink and release from the sides of the mold. When mixing in other things as additives, think about the properties of the additive and what you are trying to achieve as well as what else might be affected... If you were trying to improve the appearance of C3, first make sure you have worked with it enough to know the range of melt/ppour/cooling temps that work best for it in your environment. Many many people add NOTHING to C3 to enhance its appearance and obtain a fine looking candle with tops as smooth as a baby's bottom. Before you start adding *other stuff*, be sure you really need the additive and choose the right one and amount. HTH :-)

C-3 6%fo heated 185poured at155

I use 1 Tbsp. USA/PP & 1/8 tsp. UV inhibitor. I heat the wax to 185°F, add perewqrmed FO/dye & stir down to 165°F and pour. I have had issues at temps between 155-135 which is why I nearly always pour hot. There are occasions when I pour cool, but when I say "cool" I mean VERY cool when the wax is satiny, not clear, and the consistency of thin pudding.

I pour relatively slowly - when pouring a deep container, I usually pour down the wick slowly. Too fast causes the wax to contain air bubbles, which in the case above, look like they all collected along the wick near the top. They were trying to collect and rise but the cooling candle kept that from happening completely. Even if you do not initially see air bubbles in the hot wax, there are tiny ones which come together to make larger ones, etc. until the whole mess of air bubbles collect into large air pockets if they cannot surface & pop.

This can be avoided by pouring more slowly AND giving the containers a few *thumps* on the counter as they cool so that any air bubbles will rise to the surface and pop rather than collect together into a cavern just under the surface or along the wick. HTH :-)

Or your FO? Or are the wicks and wick wax the same? Suppliers and manufacturers change things without notice, so it never hurts to ask.

Smooth-On is another GREAT source for information on moldmaking, materials and tons of videos.

http://www.smooth-on.com/

I use a lot of *found* molds - plastic (jello molds, individual packed dog food trays), lined cardboard boxes (Domino's sandwiches, desserts, wings; Omaha Steaks packages), some deli trays (warning: thin clear plastic tends to warp from heat), even packaging materials! When you go to the Dollar Store, you can see many inexpensive *molds* there!! Party stores are also wonderful places to find unintentional molds as well as yard sales, second-hand stores, etc.

I don't line mine. I lubricate the inside liberally with mineral oil. If it hangs, it goes in the refrigerator for a while, then I run the mold under HOT water before pushing it out. Have never had any problem demolding. They do, however, have a tendency to overheat and volcano, so I don't fill mine all the way to the top (about 2" down) since I witnessed this.

BlackTie, I found that reading all of the above and more helped, then I started playing with SoapCalc. I save and print out the formulas to hang in front of my nose while soaping. Because I have saved the different formulas, I can go back and compare what I *thought* would happen and what DID happen. Soap Calc is a GREAT study tool for me!!! I am able to see how the percentages affect the other numbers, etc. then later compare with how the soap actually comes out.

Some things, like controlling the consistency, I learned by experience and am still learning! Normally, I only use 33% water ('cause it's so freakin' humid here all the time) but if I want those wonderful showy swirls like a column swirl, etc., I have to use a larger percentage of water or it's gonna be too thick to flow easily. It took me several tries to get the consistency right for a column swirl. It's so sad what happens when the stuff gets too thick, but you try anyway... The soap hangs slumped on top of the column and just dies right there... When I finally DID get it right, it was AMAZING!! I was so busy watching the pretty colors, I didn't notice when I overflowed the mold at the back on my unlevel stovetop!! Oops!! The first one bombed because the colors morphed a little and the soap darkened. What started out bright and vibrant turned murky and dim... so I learned not to use the components that caused the darkening in the next attempt. The fugly swirl, BTW, was a favorite of my customers despite its appearance.

The wonderful thing is that when something DOES go wrong (and it will), you can save the soap in-progress by throwing it into a crock pot or you can rebatch it the next day. I've never (yet!) had to throw out a failed batch of soap, although some were butt ugly. Even fugly soap can be rebatched and made more beautiful and it still works in the shower (or on the dogs).

I also found at first that I needed to make at least a 2 pound batch because the small batches are more sensitive to the slightest little thing. Larger batches have been more forgiving of my incompetence. Now that I have a little experience under my belt, I can go back to favorite formulas and make them in smaller 1 pound batches and not screw them up too badly.

Candlemaking is a big love of mine, but making CP soap is pulling alongside it because it's so fascinating! AND when you have a bad soaping day you can always go soak your troubles away in a nice bath with candles and one of your soapies that DID come out well!! All I have to do now is learn how to make homemade wine to go along with the candles and soap and I won't ever have to come out of the bathtub! ROTFLMAO

Go for it!! You'll have fun!! :-)

How do you do that with Palm wax? Since every thing needs to be either hot or kept warm.

Sharon, I can't speak for Janet, but when I make palm containers with multiple layers, I do it just like I would with soy - I have several pour pots I keep warm in an old electric frypan with a little over 1" of water in it. If the layers are thin, I don't have to wreck them, but if they are thick or deep, I wreck as I go and clean up any residue on the glass with a heat gun. HTH

That is lovely! I'm for putting the label on the lid - I don't like labels on my containers as a rule. You could also opt for a clear label with gold or white ink, but those would have to be custom made since one can't print white or gold ink from a home printer.

I think you might want to try one size larger wick. By halfway in a container of that diameter, I'd want to see a cleaner jar although the residue is not an eyesore by any means.

Thanks so much for the photo - this is going to be a hot product for you!! (no pun intended!) :-)

Richard, I use a CDN 22 & 24 in the 4" containers I use, which are straight sided, no shoulder. At this size, size and shape start to really matter! I use 1 Tbsp. PP of USA with C3 as well as UV inhibitor and 1 oz. FO/PP. Until the candle burns about halfway down, there is some hangup. It catches up at the end and the jar ends up clean with some residue. Little if any frosting on the hangup. The HT is very good. I don't shoot for FMP on the first burn of any of my candles. CDNs go all the way up to size 30, so if the 24 doesn't get it for you, wick up.

Having said that, I don't stock and am not a fan of 4" containers for several reasons. It takes a LONG time to test and burn them. Customers frequently don't maintain their big candles well and by halfway, they often look disgraceful. I find that it takes longer to sell large containers than it does smaller ones. In the time it takes for me to sell 1 big 'un, I can sell a couple of dozen smaller candles. 2.5" - 3.5" (no more than 16 oz.) are the best sellers for me.

When I make/sell candles wider than 3.5", I go toward the shallow straight-sided bowl style containers in excess of 4" in width rather than deep jar styles and do use multiple wicks (3) in those. HTH

The boycott still continues, palm wax is more difficult to source, new members have joined, so it's an ongoing issue for many chandlers.

Good point, Bernadette. The "About" of a website is very important. Your website is well-organized and very clean but needs "dressing up" a little. Something other than a simple catalog of merchandise helps - a little chatty description or verbiage goes a long way toward "personifying" a website. Pay special attention to photos. Make sure your candles are finished and displayed in a pleasing manner. Lids should be displayed with less emphasis than the candle itself. Your pillars are lovely, but are not displayed to show off their beauty. Set the mood! Candleholders sell best when they have lighted candles in them to show how pretty they look. Gift baskets should be dressed out just as the customer will receive them. When describing the products, give the wording some pizzaz. Write a FAQ or Information sheet for general information about your products. The description is not the place to discuss frosting issues. Sending out quarterly newsletters, sales offers, etc. from your customer mailing list helps boost sales. Pay attention to holidays, special events, etc. St. Paddy's Day is coming up, then Easter, then Mothers' Day...

As for sales, I sell everywhere I go! Always have business cards, an order form and a few samples of your products with you. Selling to friends, coworkers, neighbors, the people in your doctor & dentist's offices, folks at the place where you get your hair cut, your local convenience store employees, are also great ways to get your name out there. Have plenty of promotional materials with you at all times so that if someone shows an interest, there is a business card and order form with photos available for them to take home. Leave flyers with contact information and photos everywhere! When you are not actively making candles, you should be promoting them. Best of luck to you!! HTH :-)

Very pretty soap. Looking at the swirls would keep me amused in the tub for at least an extra hour!! Nice work!! :-)

Bottlecrafter, check out the link below to understand why range of temperature is important when making soy candles.

While this article is promotional of NGI waxes, ignore all that and pay more attention to the discussion of combating polymorphism in soy wax. HTH

http://www.ngiwax.com/resources/whitepages/soywaxpolymorphism.html

While I do not agree with overheating soy wax, I also don't agree with underheating it for much the same reasons. I want to raise the temp high enough to melt the undesirable crystal phases of the wax, but pour at the right temp for my environment which will encourage the growth of the desirable phases. This is how one achieves the best appearance with soy wax. Whether one pours hot or cool is entirely dependent on the environment in which one is pouring and the candles are cooled. One size does not fit all.

Your HT will not be impacted by the temp at which you add FO if you have thoroughly stirred it into solution with your wax. Candlemaking FOs are manufactured to perform well in a wide temperature range of melting conditions depending on the wax used and the application. Mixing, curing and wicking are far more critical factors in the ultimate HT than the temp at which it is added to the wax.

One quick tip...to clean up pour pots or any other wax covered stuff...get an old pot full of boiling water and dunk them, the wax and oil separates from the pot and it's left in the water.

I do this outisde in an old lobster cooker to clean everything including my wax towels and just ladel off the wax into a 5 gallon bucket of cold water. It's much more eco friendly than using TONS of paper towels, and I just re-melt the wax for my camp-fire starters (paper cup filled with wax and cotton batting).

Great tip and ya GOTTA LOVE the new use for the old lobster cooker! :-)

Yep. You are on the right track, Bart. Knowing how the wax performs give you a baseline for comparison. You can expect the addition of dye or FO to affect the size wick that you use vs. the size used in the same container. Once you have ascertained your baseline, when you add FO or dye, wick up one size from the baseline and see if that gets you close to where you need to be. Have fun! Remember to allow the candles to sit at least 48 hours before testing. This gives the newly formed wax crystals a chance to harden. When you add FO, let them cure 5-7 days before testing to give the most accurate results for how the FO will perform.

You were very wise to pay attention to the environmental conditions when pouring and testing. It makes an appreciable difference! Keep us updated on your progress, please. :-)

I prefer to test in a normal, everyday home environment since that is where my customers burn their candles. If that means there is the occasional draft or a temperature change or anything else that occurs in most households, my candles should still burn well. If I make them to burn in a laboratory setting, what good does that do my customers?

I agree. While I take common sense measures to keep the air as still as possible while testing (turn off fans, keep out of drafts, etc.) I don't go nutz trying to achieve an absolutely still environment which will not resemble the typical conditions found in most homes.

As far as I know, all container candles have dancing flames once the wax is low enough in the jar to restrict air flow.

"Dancing flames" is a relative term. If you call the normal movement of a flame "dancing," then we have a difference in terminology. It is not expected that a flame should have no movement in a container or pillar. That just isn't realistic for a number of reasons. A "dancing" flame is one that will not settle down and moves continually, often changing size and shape. A normal flame moves a small amount when burning, but doesn't wave around like a ballet dancer, nor change size or shape appreciably.

To say that "all container containers have dancing flames" is inaccurate, but to say that all container candles have flames that move somewhat is accurate. It is a question of degree.

Think all container candles will have a dancing flame below the halfway point, unless they're in a shallow bowl.

I have seen claims that some wicks don't do this but I remain skeptical.

ANY wick will flicker and dance in a container if something about the candle system isn't right... While flames dancing isn't an uncommon event, this is NOT good if it goes on for more than a few moments and it isn't characteristic of a correctly wicked container. It's a sign that something isn't quite right...

YAY!!

Also, when you see the microwave box and start calculating exactly how much soap you could make with a box that large as your mold...

:laugh2:

I suppose if one uses the same formula for their soaps, this would be fine, but I use several different formulas all requiring different amounts of lye. I don't think this would work for me. Lye solution in jugs frightens me. I'd rather make it each time I need it. Just my 2¢ worth...

Bummer about the chrome, but if you have time, I never tire of seeing photos!! :-)

I always enjoy seeing your soapies and those are no exception!! Great work!! :-)