strugglebrother

39 minutes ago, moonshine said:

My advice on this-  label it true to what it is.... I agree with JC on this one 100%-  I want to KNOW whats in my candle I am buying and why would anyone want to hide it??

You are correct people are looking for a good fragrant candle that burns good BUT some people have allergies and sensitivities to ingredients.... why try and sell off a candle as pure soy when its simply not and just put parasoy blend on your label-  95% people wont give a crap but your being honest this way and not selling something that someone could react to

Companies that say soy blend.....I call them and ask whats in it- if you cant tell me I am not buying, I am not asking for recipes but if I am gifting to certain people they cannot burn paraffin without sensitivites 

No one should lie about what's in their products...

But

I haven't seen one paraffin candle yet label their candle "a 100% petroleum based product". If there it's paraffin in any commercial candle they will have no info on their labels. Why? Because you only want to market your ingredients if they are natural.

Putting soywax blend on your candle will inform any customers about that it's mixed with something else, probably paraffin. Putting soy & paraffin blend will just make it sound bad these days. That's been my feedback from shopowners here in Los Angeles.

Regarding allergens, who would even know what is in the fragrance oils one is using for their candles if they haven't made them from straight up aroma molecules.

Saying pure soy and sticking anything else in it would be unethical. But you then have to make sure that it's pure soywax, and not a soywax like C3 etc....

444 is a tricky one... great cold and hot throw but always leaves sinkholes for me regardless what pour temp I ever use. Could be the container I'm using too.

I just pour and fix it later with a heat gun, never nailed a specific pour temp with 444 unfortunately.

1 minute ago, Jcandleattic said:

Yes, but if that's all they want, then why go through the shenanigans of wording it with buzz words, possibly misleading the consumer?  

 

i use a paraffin blend (no soy at all) that will do exactly everything you just said, and I have a good following with a good customer base and repeat customers. When asked if my candles are made with soy, I proudly declare they are not, and if interested in listening, I tell them my candles can do everything a soy candle can do expect be soy. 

I think it's because people have been hammered on TV, blogs, word of mouth etc.. that paraffin is bad for you... It's marketing.

I live in California, we have a lot of people here who claim they only want to use natural products, eco friendly, gmo etc etc.. Then they all carry iPhones (which are manufactured by small children in third world developing countries) and driving huge SUV's (which slurps gasoline and pollute the planet more than any other car).

1 minute ago, Jcandleattic said:

This is one of the reasons I don't work with, or buy soy candles. You never know what you are really getting, unless it says 100% soy.

I know if I bought a "pure soy" candle, only to later find out I'd been duped by the wording, i wouldn't be happy and I wouldn't be a return customer, for sure. 

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I think the customer is mostly happy if the candle scent the room in a strong but pleasant way, have a good cold throw so they know what they are buying, don't soot and have a good flame.

Soy or coconut wax does give a nice rounded smell to the candle fragrance so I don't mind a blend of both soy and paraffin, to be honest. PF Candle Co's candles who are low scented 100% soy candles barely scent a normal room until you burned yourself 20 hrs into the candle.

http://calcandlesupply.com/

1 hour ago, TallTayl said:

Well if nothing is changed and why are so many of the reviews two and three stars?

Exactly....

Anyone heard from any other reseller regarding the quality control?

23 hours ago, moonshine said:

There are several threads about this 

depending on which soy you use you will likely run into a whole host of issues....don't think you can just start mass producing - you will need to test all over again every single fragrance 

depending on your lot numbers on your cases ....I think it's mid 2017  changes were being noticed 

I contacted candlescience and they claim nothing has changed with AAK soy waxes even though I have hundreds of complete fails sitting here as proof and they claim they have had no other complaints when I know for a fact several people have called and emailed about it as well

415 is having to be wicked down and ht is compromised 

464 is having to be wicked down and ht is compromised along with complaints of sweating 

C3 is having to be wicked up and ht is compromised 

6006 which has soy has been stated wicking issues as well

 

Those are the ones I remember off hand as they are used the most 

 

quantum waxes I won't even go there - the complaints are many 

I just spoke with Candlescience... They just say the same thing to me, nothing has changed and there is just a VERY small percentage that has complained about this.

I took a decision today to throw in the towel on pure soy and in the future mix it with paraffin and label it as a natural soy wax blend (hey that's what all the big guys do anyway and all buyers do believe they are buying pure soy)

The GB 415 is 100% hydrogenated soybean oil, which does not pose a significant risk for skin reactions, but be cautious against labeling it as skin-safe for liability reasons.

Without it being dermatologically tested and approved, you could be held responsible if someone were to have a reaction when using your product.

GB 464 and 444 both have added additives... If you make them for yourself I'm sure it's fine, if you sell them I would look for a wax that is skin safe. 

I have tried to have a look but I couldn't find much about 444 which I use. I introduced a Xmas candle in our line and that burnt well. Maybe I was lucky with that one.

I had sweating from time to time, I couldn't figure out if it's was the California weather (hot and cold) but maybe it is the wax then.

All my 444 wax when I checked is LOT F. 

Luckily we are cutting down our line and introducing new ones. I do a paraffin / soy / coconut blend for other clients who don't care about pure soy. If it's like this I might throw in the towel on 100% vegetable wax and do a blend.

People don't seem to care anymore, so many candles with paraffin blend and people still think there is only soy in them. Voluspa is a great example.

Great owner and store. I buy my coconut wax from him.

1 minute ago, TallTayl said:

ALL of them. Every single one. I nearly closed my main source of income because of it. Though wax retailers like candle science will call you all sorts of crazy if you say otherwise. Even when you have hundreds of items of proof.... 

 

 

Scents change? Or other problems? Is there a thread about this?

9 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

Well given all the issues with soy wax this year I don’t blame the fragrance manufacturers.

 

I haven't followed what is going on with soy wax this year. I haven't worked through all my 50lb of wax yet. I live in Los Angeles and my wax isn't sourceable locally here so I order usually 6-7 50lb of soy for cheaper shipping and the last order was this summer.

Are all soywax affected or just the new Ecosoy that has gotten terrible reviews everywhere. I luckily don't use Ecosoy.

17 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

The cheapest ingredients for someone to "cut" aromachemicals would be either DPG or a veg oil. Both would be very easy to detect.  soapmakers who also use those same skin safe oils know just by how the raw soap reacts to the fragrance. DPG makes soap seize into a solid mass almost immediately. Liquid veg oils such as soybean turn the soap slimy and cause oxidation (DOS). 

 

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Yes, you are spot on here. We have DPG which we use to cut our aromachemicals with to dilute them for testing. This is when doing perfume. As the pure aromachemical is really strong you want to dilute it when mixing. The final product has 10-40% of concentration and the rest is perfumers alcohol, which you later spray on your skin.

DPG can be used to dilute fragrance oils for making incense sticks also.

I have also tried DOA - Dioctyl Adipate which is a solvent that is completely odorless - which can be used to dilute fragrance oils without leaving any trace of scent.

I will add to this, I'm not in any way an expert on the subject but I try my best to search and search to get wiser and try new things.

In some cases it's personal preference... others I have spoken or read things about from the manufacturers.

Save on Scents I've spoken to on the phone, their head perfumer. Their extreme oils are without any solvent, Standard and Ultra are diluted. Prices reflect that. And their extreme versions smell strong.

Bramble Berry's FO's I have had bad luck with in soywax, not many of them give great hot throw. They have also taken away a lot of their candle products and focusing mostly on soap making. There are not many reviews based on candle making. This is my personal testing.

Wellington's oils are hit and miss. Most of my oil faded quick within 4-6 months and what's left is a smell of alcohol/fuel which makes me believe they are all cut. Solvent or carrier oil eats through the fragrance after a while. A personal reference here.

Bitter Creek and Nature's Garden both have a certain smell to them that carries through all their oils. Personal preference here, but that makes me believe a certain type of solvent or carrier oil has been used. Bitter Creek has some nice scents tho, I wouldn't say they are the strongest out of the bottle but I think they smell good. Nature's Garden, I might have ordered 20 of their worst samples maybe? But they all smelled like shampoo? 

Rustic and Candle Science always smell strong out of the bottle and performs almost always great in soywax.

Bulk Apothecary just has really bad business practices, I have written a long thread about them here on the forum. Otherwise, this might help  https://www.yelp.com/biz/bulk-apothecary-streetsboro I buy everything straight from Lebermuth instead where I get the oils tapped fresh.

So, yeah you are right, no one is going to tell you / yeah we cut our oils etc... It's mostly personal preference and testing, I should have mentioned that.

The quality of the oil is also dependant on how fresh they are. Some suppliers have their oil's sitting and when you get them they will go bad within a few months. I feel Rustic, Candle Science, Wholesalesuppliesplus, Save on Scents & Lebermuth to be the ones that are freshly tapped and lasts the longest without fading or changing.

26 minutes ago, Kerven said:

Does it smell anything like Earl Grey tea?

It smells a bit like Earl Grey tea but not spot on.

I used to live in London for 7 years and I drank a lot of Earl Grey Tea during that time. I still haven't found a ready made FO here in USA that smells like it. Suppliers seem to be very happy to provide a lot of 'White Tea' scents in mass but not much of black tea blends.

I'd say mix a good black tea (if you can find one) with bergamot and you would get closer.

On 11/16/2017 at 10:51 AM, Crafty1_AJ said:

It's funny that "old books" sells.  I've seen that type of candle on Etsy.  I think old books *stink.*  LOL 

 

To my way of thinking, I'd just as soon buy a candle called "Road Kill Skunk."     

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One of Byredo's best sellers are their Library candle

https://byredo.com/bibliotheque-candle-240-g?gclid=CjwKCAiAhMLSBRBJEiwAlFrsTjJR0MAQp-OEK2hoPjL6-vJxJiCzre6orcR6NpATygwbVBAWd_qrKBoCWt4QAvD_BwE

Bitter Creek's oils are diluted heavily with a solvent. Wellington also (even their premium ones who are supposed to be uncut)

Bramble Berry's oils are strong but only a few are suitable for candlemaking.

Strongest one's for candles would be Candle Science & Rustic. Save on Scents sell their oil's as diluted or uncut (extreme)

Bulk Apothecary has terrible customer support and many of their oils will go off within 6 months.

Nature's Garden's oils are very cut and has a soapy smell to all of them (first time ever all of my samples with a supplier went in the bin)

I tried to make a candle of the Bergamot Black Tea in soy. Didn't turn out good after curing. Smell's good out of the bottle tho, might work better in soap?

I have tried to spray paint glass with what Michaels said was glass paint.

If double sprayed the paint fell off and it looked quite 'hand made' non professional. I'm sure I just did it wrong and had the wrong paint.

When it comes to colored glass you don't have many options. CS is the only one that has a decent white and black tumbler but they are constantly struggling with their quality and stock. Other than that they have excellent customer support and quality. I hope they get their containers sorted for 2018.

Glassnow have some colored jars, see if you like them. They are not to my liking tho.

See if you can use dropshipping.

Call FedEx, they usually beat any price over the phone instead of on their site. You can have it picked up from Candlescience warehouse in Reno.

And wax, I always order 50lb x 4 at a time to get the shipping down. Just ordering one lump doesn't make sense. I live in Los Angeles and we don't have many choices here in California when it comes to wax.

From what I have read up on you need to list if it is alcohol or water as a base and then you can put just fragrance oil's. If you are using essential oils you might want to list that from a marketing perspective.

https://www.fda.gov/Cosmetics/ProductsIngredients/Ingredients/ucm388821.htm#labeling

This is in the USA. If you are planning to sell in Europe you need to have any possible allergens on there but you can then label accordingly when you ship overseas. 

On 11/1/2017 at 11:36 AM, Flicker said:

I don't measure, but for a lb of wax maybe 1/16 tsp? Not much. I get mine from Bitter Creek. It also does not have ANY smell and does not usually alter the burn.

Perfect, I'll give it a try. Thanks!

19 hours ago, Flicker said:

Black powder dye. Just mix with the FO versus into the hot wax to solubilize it, works like a charm and I got TRUE black in every soy.

I have to use a LOT of black liquid dye to get my soy candles true black but it alters the scent in high concentration. A chemical scent which isn't pleasant.

Where do you get your black power dye from? Does it leave a lot of smell? How much do you have to use to get it TRUE black?

When it comes to the cold throw of the candle I would say the wax and additives are making a big difference. I have been testing a lot of different waxes and they certainly have weaker or stronger cold throw. And initially, that's what a customer smell in the shop or at the market you are selling at. Weak cold throws tend not to sell a lot for me due to that reason.

The hot throw is more depending on the scent itself, wick, container etc...

Voluspa candles does produce a very strong hot throw. Their small candles scent easily a full living room without any problems. Their blend is secret but consists of coconut, soy, paraffin and possibly other additives. Ideally, thats how I would like my candles to throw but, yeah it's hard to figure it out.