Clear Black

So I typically purchase 8oz Country Comfort Apothecary jars from Fillmore container. They have been fine but recently I wanted to maybe find a 10 or 12oz version to replace the 8oz. I then looked at Lonestar Candle Companies website and noticed that they sell a 10oz Country Comfort Apothecary jar. GREAT! Ordered a box and it arrived this evening. Open the box and start scratching my head. Hmm. This doesnt look right. I take a jar out and place it next to my 8oz jars I normally get from Fillmore. Yup, its the same size. OMG! there is a label on the box that I just notice that says 8oz Country Comfort Apothecary. Oops. They sent me the wrong ones. 

So then I call customer service. This is where I start to lose my mind. They tell me that years ago Anchor Hocking changed the name of the 10oz jar to 8oz. That will explain why the label says 8oz. The CS rep from Lonestar says its the same jar though. Ok, thats fine. But I tell her that you advertise selling a 10oz jar, not an 8oz. She AGAIN tells me "its the same jar" I can see where this going. She tells me she is the office manager and there is nobody above her to speak to so she calls the warehouse. Yup, they confirm with her that the 8o jar is the same as the 10oz they used to sell. Ok. so again I tell her that if you are advertising selling a 10oz jar, I expect a 10oz jar. Not an 8oz. I tell her that all the other distributors I buy from sell an 8oz jar, I was looking for a bigger container and thought I had found one. 

Basically I was told that an 8oz jar, that is advertised as a 10oz jar, is an 8oz jar. (If that makes sense)  I have never come across anything like this yet and am baffled as to why they advertise on their website a 10oz jar when its actually a 8oz. EVEN THE BOX SAYS 8oz!!! 

Am I crazy or does anyone know what Im talking about?

I had been using some cheapo alarm digital ones from Walmart for perhaps $15 each. While they are consistent in between themselves, sometimes I want to make batch after batch after batch, and I feel rushed having to clean them between each one. They are off a few degrees from each other too so I might be doing things 2 degrees off switching to others.

 

So, after several hours of research, I invested in this infrared thermometer:

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006K3M8BK?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00

 

Full disclosure, I haven't used it yet as I've been studying the hades out of soaps, but will test it this weekend!

 

Here is why I chose this.

 

It's emissivity value is able to be changed to the hundredths place, and unlike most other ones that can change, I can move in increments of 0.01 rather than 0.10. Many can't change at all and are permanently set on 0.95 and while that might work fine for most people and likely is very consistent between uses, I was simply too curious and had to find out if what the emissivity of soy wax is. I'm pretty sure the value should be slightly higher or lower than 0.95 and plan to calibrate and test it extensively and publish my findings. I would imagine the emissivity value might even change with the type of wax, dye, and FO even. I could be wrong and it might just be 0.95 across the board and all this might be unnecessary, but it's worth it for me to test and pass this knowledge on. I couldn't find it anywhere, and I looked.

 

On other features, any infrared thermometer's temperature range is going to work for candle making and soap making and will only matter for other applications. The same holds true with it's distance to spot ratio, unless you need something different for other applications. Some of these have high/low temp alarms and while that's certainly desirable, the only option for this line was triple the price and I'm just going to use my old digital therms to alert me then start monitoring with the infrared. There also is NIST certified to insure it's calibrated properly, and while that sounds nice, it was a few hundred extra $$ for every model and I think with enough testing I can just calibrate it to my liking myself, but if I had the funds it sure would have been tempting.

 

I also found some significantly cheaper at Lowe's and I am sure they are cheaper other places too. I would imagine these would work well enough as well.

 

http://www.lowes.com/pd_73790-56005-IRT207_1z0wcn0__?productId=3136869&pl=1

 

A general consensus, at least from posts I've read, is that you don't have to be absolutely precisely accurate on temps for candles nearly as strongly as you need to be consistent and the thermometer should be directionally accurate so it's best to stick with one thermometer. So lets say your thermometer measures 185 as 183, well as long as you keep mixing and testing it when yours says its 185, you are hitting the same temp and should be fine.C Di, this is EXACTLY

C Dizz, this is EXACTLY what i needed to hear. I was wanting to invest in this type thermometer but needed some feedback from you nice folks here. Please PLEASE come back to this thread and let me know how this particular model performed over this weekend when you test it out. It would mean a lot to me if I could invest in a nice thermometer having some feedback on it before I make the purchase. I am starting out in this hobby with limited resources and I could use any help I can get! 

after breaking at least a dozen glass ones, my hubby bought me an infrared...love it, used it for 6 yrs and just bought a new one, because that's what we do? They have a digital read out.

I want one, but am afraid the that infrared laser is reading either the sides of my pour pot or just the surface temp. Are they accurate? If I stir a little bit and then take a temp reading would that be an accurate temp of the liquid or just the surface reading? 

Ya, Im really after a digital one. I had a glass candy one at first but just dont like them TBH. I then got my digital one, but like I said, its tiny. So tiny, the last batch I made it slipped outta my hands and ended up in my pour pot covered in wax. kinda ruined the LCD reader bringing me here asking for a better tip on a good one.

I need to get a better one and was wondering what some of you all are using. Currently the one I use is a very small digital one that I have to physically hold down inside my pour pot and get a reading. It looked much bigger in the photos when I purchased it, but in reality its only about 4 inches in length. 

I also thought about using a handheld temp gun similar to this: 

http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/H-5226/Tools/Temperature-Gun?pricode=WY836&gadtype=pla&id=H-5226&gclid=Cj0KEQiA5dK0BRCr49qDzILe74UBEiQA_6gA-jh_ZSbnxi1yQSpJgc-qwelkDLbiSqxCaIv7t2zvHAMaAjMv8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

I just dont know if those give an accurate reading of the liquid wax. It seems to me these type would only be reading the surface temp, which could be way different than the temps near the bottom of pot.

thoughts?

My shop is pretty cool (55-60 year round) i run a fan in the room to circulate the air on candle making days.

I tested my wax and containers many times and the results were consistent. I poured 6 candles from the same pot, 3 i set on the bench to cool slowly. The other 3 i set near a fan. The three near the fan cooled shiny, hard. The three slow cooled candles were grainy and dull. Every time. Cooling my candles on a wire rack where air circulates all around cools them even quicker.

Caveat: i do not use glass often, and don't care one bit about wet spots. My candle customers don't care about wet spots either. The quick cool may well result in wet spots.

Caveat 2: i always poke around the wick for caverns. No matter what method i have tried i found holes around the wick enough times to just poke and fill.

Caveat 3: like trappeur, i often use colored bits on top of the candle. I push them into the wax when it develops a skin, but is still mushy forces out any air pockets that may be developing. Bonus that it means i don't need perfectly level tops. Colored bits draw my magpie customers like a tractor beam.

Note on beeswax, a quick cool as i poke relief holes around the warm wick in front of a fan when using aluminum molds gives the best release. I always have to fill beeswax because of the high shrinkage rate of the wax itself. When no relief holes i have found beastly caverns.

So last night I remelted the first batch that came out horrible like you suggested. This time however, I melted the wax to 180* and poured at 150*. Then I placed them on a wire rack and in front of a fan set on medium. Just like you said, I woke up the next morning and they looked perfect. So I do believe I will be trying this method for all future testing and will report back with any findings.

Thanks a whole bunch TT. You certainly have given me hope that I can make this work. OG, thanks for your advice as well. Newbies like myself would be lost without the wisdom of the people here. I hoe someday I can return the favor to another future newbie 

There's something wrong if your wax is still mush after 26 hours, and I don't know how to troubleshoot that.

Heat the wax to 180, remove from heat, add FO and stir, allow the wax to cool to 140-150 degrees, stir again, pour into your containers. In 3 days your candles should be solid... unless you have burned it recently or left it in a really hot room. Have you tried a different FO?

I have tried other FO in the past, even with GW 444. I have usually poured at 125* or lower according to the manufacturers guidlines. They actually say to pour when slushy. Then, I come here and find out people are pouring between 140-150* like you suggest. So I am re-heating the batch that turned out bad from last night to 180* Since I already have my FO in, I will just take it off the heat and allow to cool to 145*ish then pour. Im just still confused as to what TT suggested I do to "cool the candle" more quickly. Apart from sticking it the fridge, Im not sure exactly how this is accomplished. My house sits at about 68* F so they cool at room temp.

I now pour while the wax is still clear and cool the candles quicker.

 

Thanks for the response TT. Being as new to this as I am, I'm not exactly sure what this means. To pour while the wax is still clear that is. If I poured mine at 125* and let them cool at room temp, are you suggesting I pour hotter than 125*? Say 150*+? Also, cool the candles quicker. How do you accomplish this? I dont imagine you stick em in the fridge? lol

Thanks 

PS. I am currently reheating the jars in a cook pot filled 1/4 with water on the stove top. Will pour melted wax back into my double boiler and start the process over. I am going to take a stab at pouring hotter at 150* and go from there. Like you said, I will lose some fragrance, but Im more focused on getting a solid wax body at this point and will worry about HT during phase 3 of testing.

im about to give up

So, Im testing 464 and did my first test batch of just pure wax. JUST 464. No FO, no wick, no dye. Melted 1lb wax to 180*, poured at 125*. Perfection. Adhesion 100%, tops like glass. Ok, good starting point I think.

Next test. ADD FO. Heat 1lb 464 to 180*, add 1oz FO, pour at 125*. WHAT A MESS. I wake up the next morning and my tops look horrid, which I know soy is known for, but more so they look grainy and FULL of air pockets. I leave for work and check on them again when I return home. Mind you this is now 26+hrs after pour. My wax is still super "mushy" I can, and did, stick my finger 2 knuckles deep into the jar. When I took my finger out, the wax I had removed had the consistency of wet sand. Very very grainy.This doesnt seem right to me? Anyways, I get my heat gun out to smooth out the tops. The wax is so soft that it melts almost immediatly. And the air bubbles, my god! You can see literally hundreds of air bubbles as I melt the top layer. When i added my FO I made sure not to over stir or stir too fast. It was controlled and gentle but also made sure the FO was fused into the 464. Again, no idea and doesnt seem right.

For reference, Im using 1lb 464, 1oz Red Hot Cinnamon FO from Candle Science, and 2-16oz Country Comfort Apothecary jars.

*I know wax takes time to harden, but being this soft 26+hrs later doesnt seem normal.

*The wet sand texture and general grainy feel of the wax doesnt seem normal.

*The ugly tops I can tolerate and fix later

*Isnt 1oz of FO per 1lb wax ok? Did I over scent?

On a plus side, the cold throw is rediculous. My 3 main rooms around the kitchen where I make the candles smell like Red Hot Cinn.

Something isnt adding up here. I feel if I was to light these candles in 2 weeks after they cure, the air bubbles alone would make me toss them in the garbage. I dont think 2 weeks of cure will change the grainy consistency of the wax and generally this whole process has frustrated me to the point of giving up for now. All together Ive spent $500+ and havnt produced a consistent candle. Every candle I make has some sort of issue and it just seems like Im missing a step in this testing process.

Any 464 users PLEASE PLEASE step in and say hi. 

Thanks-

If it were me I would switch out the soy wax for candelilla or carnauba.

 

 

I make Soy candles with GB 444, so i was hoping to stay with the soy theme if that makes sense. I was thinking more of a blend of Bees wax and soy wax so that i could still tell myself it has soy in it.  Considering I have 50lb bags of GB 444 sitting here making candles, I had hoped to not have to stock a 3rd wax besides the 444 and BW. I guess I will have to try a 444/BW blend and a BW/Cand or Carn blend and see if I can tell the difference.

Also, how much of the Butter-EZ would you use in that formula? I dont see anything there that suggests or references how much if any to use. With that I have no starting point as to what I should be adding. 1 cup, 1tbsp, 1tsp, etc etc?

So Im trying to make a similar version to my faithful companion, the Burts lip balm, thats always in my pocket no matter where I go. But im also fed up with paying nearly $4 per tube at retail stores. So ive been toying with the idea of making my own lip balm because I currently have bags of soy wax laying around from making soy candles. Im trying to keep as much soy wax as I can in my recipe and figured id also add in some bees wax to help with hardness during summer months. So far, I have a list of ingredients, but being as novice as i am, I have no clue if there is any red flags going up in this list. That is where you folks come in (i hope)

So far my rough recipe reads:

1.25oz Soy Wax

0.75oz Bees Wax

3.00oz Coconut Oil

0.75oz Cocoa Butter

0.25oz Canola Oil

Peppermint oil flavoring

Rosemary leaf flavoring

Ive been doing some reading and it seems most of the recipes i found were sticking to a 2oz wax/4oz oil type formula. If anything in this recipe sticks out as a big NO-NO please advise asap. I hope to be purchasing some of these ingredients this week to make my first run batch and go from there.

Thanks!

The spring rain FO is amazing.  I have a buyer lined up for those two once my insurance paperwork gets figured out.  The person took one whiff and said I want them all and I want more.  Soooo, apparently its good?

 

 

"Item is temporarily out of stock" Looks like somebody got there before me! Drat 

I was wondering if any of you folks might have some photos of how you set up your tables at craft shows. I will hopefully be ready to do a craft show by fall 2016 and want to get brainstorming on table top setups. I will be selling candles mostly, maybe a few lip balms if ready by then, but any info on table setups will be greatly appreciated.

-Thanks

I actually have a few questions for you. If you dont mind that is. 

*What size jar is that? 10oz? Also, is it the Country Comfort Apothecary? It looks very similar to the ones I just ordered from Fillmore but I got the 8oz and the 160z. I was looking for a 10oz version but couldnt find one.

*What are those 4 posted white wick holders called and if possible link me to where you purchased them. they look fantastic and it appears they work very well. All your wicks look dead center. Well done!

The ONLY criticism i could offer is that if you plan to sell these at any point, there is something about the Mac Apple candle color that doesnt sit well. To me, a Mac Apple candle should and always is a shade of Red. Even if you had a Green Apple FO instead of Mac Apple, that green is more of a pastel than a true green. Customers might be confused by sight when picking up a pastel green candle that smells like a red apple. 

Other than that, these look the way I want mine to look lol. Im new to this. Like, first month into it kinda new. And these candles look like what I want my end product to look. Great job and you now have me curious about the Spring Rain FO 

Thanks for the info, but i don't have an issue with my wicks staying light.  I was explaining to clear Black how i keep them light without doubling up.  in an earlier thread i mentioned that i do soak my wick in Wax prior to setting in the candle.

Just got my shipment in today of the thicker .030 Original Crackling wick. I will run some tests to see if I can keep that single wick lit. It would literally cut my wick expense in half if i could. Will be interesting.

I also use woodcandlewick.com to get my wicks. I do a double wick combo in a 10oz jar that has a 3" opening. I use the 1/2" Wick size in a double combo. For 444 & 464 I found that you get a nice pool after about 35min. In addition about 1/2" form the top of the candle will be completely liquid. It creates a good throw. I use to double up but I have opted to start using the thicker wick from wood candle wick and I no longer double up per sustainer

so you can get the .030 wick to stay lit? Whenever I have put ANY single wick from them in a single sustainer as soon as I light the wick it fizzles itself out. If I add a second wick, no issues

I used 444 for years, then tried 464 for 'better adhesion', and also because one supplier had a great sale on it. (Some suppliers don't even offer 444)  I've also noticed a lot more people talk about 464 than 444. I gave 464 a shot.  Didn't really see that much difference in how the wax adheres to the glass or how smooth the tops were.  I went back to my 444 just because I like it better.  It doesn't clump together in the box like 464 so is easier to scoop out.  Seems to me like it cools down quicker for pouring too. And I shipped some candles to Nevada last summer and figured since 444 has a higher melt point, it is a better wax for hot weather.

 

 In the end, I believe it's personal preference and what works best for you.

Thanks Gail. I have a bag of 464 on its way. Im still figuring out what size wood wick to use, so I plan on making a side by side comparison of the 444 vs 464 when I do my next burn tests. just to see how each reacts and see if there is any difference in melt pools etc

Hello I am new to the forum and I use 444 /464 WAX and wood wicks only. I do two things when prepping my wicks. 1. I use a small amount of wax to adhere the wick and sustainer clip to the jar. 2. I soak the wick for just a few seconds in wax to give it a thin coating. 3. I pour slowly at a low temp. Usually around 125 or less just before the top skims over. I havre had separation only a few times. Hope that helps.

Just out of curiosity as an after thought. What wood wicks are you using and on what size jars? I get all mine from http://www.woodcandlewick.com 

Prices to me seem reasonable. Even at the lowest amount ordered (100) it comes out to roughly .11c per wick. And since I use (2) wicks sandwiched together I still only pay .22c/jar for my wick. Not bad to me but what the heck do I know? Are you using one wick or two in the same jar?

Hello I am new to the forum and I use 444 /464 WAX and wood wicks only. I do two things when prepping my wicks. 1. I use a small amount of wax to adhere the wick and sustainer clip to the jar. 2. I soak the wick for just a few seconds in wax to give it a thin coating. 3. I pour slowly at a low temp. Usually around 125 or less just before the top skims over. I havre had separation only a few times. Hope that helps.

Yes. ANYTHING helps when learning. I will try "priming" my next few wicks and see if that helps. Many thanks 

A long time ago someone here told me to pour my wax down the wick as I was filling jars, I haven't had that tunneling problem since I started doing that.  It certainly doesn't hurt to pour that way as long as your wicks are secured both

bottom and top so they don't move.

will try this next batch. Thanks

I don't use your wax but I've used wood wicks.  I found pouring the wax down the wick helped with those tunnels.  I also do this with regular wicks now even though they are primed.

Priming would probably help although I'd pour on the cool side if you prime the wood wicks.  Do you stick the 2 wicks together with wax?  If not, I'd probably try that as well.

Question: What do you mean by pour the wax down the wick? When I pour I try to avoid hitting the wick at all cost. Dont ask me why, I am uber new to all this. Are you suggestion I pour the wax OVER the wick and let the wax enter the jar by running down the wick sorta? 

And to answer your question, I dont prime the 2 wicks or stick the together with wax at all. I just leave them as they are. Last batch I tried using some all natural glue to adhere them together. Its solvent free and it says you can eat it lol. I use very little, only a few drops to adhere in a few places. After 2 4 hr burns, I didnt see anything indicating the glue reacted in any way. i dont plan on using this in any future batches, I just wanted to test whether wax was pooling between the two wicks and causing my tunneling. I wonder with the wood being as dry as it is, if the wicks are soaking in or repelling the wax a bit as the candle cools. Hmm.

I use 444, heat to 180ºF, add fragrance immediately (sometimes lower depending on the fragrance oil's flash point), cool to around 110ºF and pour.  I've never had wet spots or any issues, and my tops turn out nicely, too.  I live in the Mojave Desert, so I originally got 444 to prevent my candles from melting in the heat.  

I've been really curious about 464, just to compare scent throw and how it burns, but I can't bring myself to waste money on testing a new wax when the one I've been using is doing just fine.  The only thing I don't like is that after burning, the tops crystallize and look kind of grainy; however, I have just given in to the fact that it's soy wax and it does what it wants  It doesn't affect the burn.

I also have been rather annoyed with my tops after burning. I get pits and frosting that werent there when I first poured. Im also curious if 464 does the same, so I have a 10lb bag of that on its way along with some new style jars I want to test. The jars I have been testing will cost me 1.75 roughly and that includes lid. Im trying to get my cost per jar down a bit further under the $1.50 point. Doesnt seem like much, but that .25c per jar will add up over time I guess

Flash point of the FO has no bearing on when you should add it to the wax. Flash point is the temperature the fragrance would need to reach to ignite if near a spark or flame. The info is critical for shipping the FO, but not so much for making your candles.

One FO i use has a FP of 133 (Aromahaven's lemon verbena). I add it at normal temps and never "burn it off" in the candle making process. It is consistently one of the strongest throwers i have ever used.

If your wax is too cool the FO may not blend in as homogenously as when properly warmed. Mixing too cool could very well cause irregularities in your final candle appearance. also, if the wax cools slowly the crystals grow slowly, giving that rough appearance.

Good to know on the FP issue. Thank you

On what temp to add the FO, would you suggest adding it as soon as I reach my max temp of 180*? If I do so, can I still wait til 100* to pour my wax into my jars? Ive found initial testing suggesting that my 444 is reacting better to a pour temp of 100* rather than the first few tests I did when I poured at 130*. At 130* my tops came out ugly, and I had worm holes/cavities throughout. When I pour at 100*, my tops are glass and no visable worm holes or air pockets

Its stuff like this that makes newbies like me pull my hair out. All of you have different pour temps including myself. I pour GB 444 at 100*! After heating to 180*, I let sit all the way til 100* and pour and my tops are like GLASS. My adhesion is near perfect with no noticeable wet spots. Only thing Im working on now is when to add my FO. I have no clue when to pour so Im sorta just winging it during this testing phase.

The first batch I made I poured my FO at 180* but later found out that that particular FO has a FP of 140*. So I think I burned the FO and messed that batch up because my candle was ugly as all hell. Had craters, wouldnt burn properly, many, many air pockets. The list goes on.

The second test batch I made, I actually waited til 105*, added FO, then poured at 100*. My cold throw and hot throw were both there, but hot throw was weaker than I want. I had to stick my nose down to about a foot away from candle to get any scent.

Batch #3 will be sometime this week, then cure time. I just dont know if my 100* pour temp is where I should be at, nor do I know when to pour my FO in. I will however say that according to the distributers guidelines on when to pour, 100* seems to line up with "cool and slushy" that they suggest. Although even at 100* its not slushy. All I know is that at 100*, when I pour into my container (12oz Elite) the wa is cooled white on the sides almost within the first minute, and within 5-8 minutes the entire candle has a "solid white" look to it although the middle of the candle is obviously still liquid.

EDIT:

Try this link instead: http://www.prestopotwaxmelter.com