Clay in gels??

[CathyinME]

Hi Has anyone every tried making fimo clay items & using them in gel candles? i was thinking about trying some but didn't know how they would do. I've been searching all morning for nice glass embeds but can't seem to find ones I like(I'm very picky)!!!

[EricofAZ]

I read somewhere that clay is not good to use for containers because it is porous and the wax that soaks in can ignite.

[Vicky_CO]

EricofAZ is correct if you are going to wick it do not use clay. Even if you seal the clay what you use to seal it with will most likely become flammable. If you are double glassing that is different.

[CathyinME]

That's what i figured but I thought I'd ask!!! I don't want to do an insert so I guess I'll have to come up with another idea.

[Candlemaking.com]

I would test it... Wax itself is not flammable but takes a wick or something else flammable to use it as a fuel. So if you have a clay item that is also non flammable soaked in wax I still don't think it would catch on fire. Wish I had some to play around with for you.

Travis

[Wessex]

Fimo clay is very porous when dry and would act like a wick. A porcelain or high-fired stoneware would not be porous and thus would not wick a fuel. But any earthenware and low-fired stoneware is porous and will wick. Good test is the tongue test. Put your moistened tongue on a broken edge and if it sticks it is earthenware or low-fired stoneware. Old archaeologists trick.

Cheers,

Steve

Edited December 27, 2010 by Wessex

[Candlemaking.com]

If you can hold a lighter to it and it won’t catch on fire then you should be fine. I don't believe clay is flammable as clay is what bricks are made from. Can't act as a wick if it can’t hold a flame even if covered and soaked in wax. Even with this we are saying that you are putting the clay within the reach of the wick. I would say you are much more likely to hit the flash point on the fragrance before any trouble out of the clay, but do test it.

Travis

Aztec

[Bernadette]

Holding a lighter to a clay embed that has been coated in gel and left to dry is not the same thing as a clay embed that has sat hours/days/months/(and yes)years in a gel candle, then subjected to hours, sometime power burn hours, in a gel candle meltpool. And it is not the same thing as a thick brick. Embeds are small, thin, and porous. Even if the embed doesn't catch on fire, it can aid in making the gel so hot that the glass shatters. Years ago now, I tested 15 candles at the time increments listed above, as this was a debated question on many other candle forums, including those devoted strictly to gel candles. There were so many pros and cons listed, I wanted to see for myself. Every one of those test candles had a problem - burned exceedingly hot, shattered the glass, lit up the surface of the gel when meltpool reached embeds, etc. - all things that gave gel candles a bad rap because people were selling them(along with embedded wood items, candy, etc but that's another thread). I don't make or understand the process for making clay embeds, but I have seen candles where the embeds weren't sealed properly and made the gel cloudy and terrible looking hours after pouring, that only got worse with time. I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do. These are my results. I would never use them unless it was the double glass method, and even then, if there was a better alternative, I would use it instead.:tiptoe:

Edited December 28, 2010 by Bernadette

[Candlemaking.com]

A few notes, first I was not talking about coating the clay in gel and seeing if it would catch fire, I was talking about the clay itself with no gel. If it can’t hold a flame then it cannot be used as a wick no matter how much gel you coat it in. To create wicking action the “wick” must be able to hold a flame like wood, paper, cotton, anything that is somewhat flammable.

Second, when you talk about the surface of the "gel" catching on fire. What actually is happening is gel burns hotter and must be wicked hotter than paraffin and you have actually hit the flash point on the fragrance that is in the gel. What you see burning is not the gel on fire but the fragrance burning off after it has gotten so hot that it has self ignited.

I don't know what the clay would look like after hot gel was poured on it, but I stay with my opinion that it is not a fire hazard.

Travis

Aztec

[Bernadette]

I did not use fragrance in my test. Just gel and clay embeds. For each test case there was a control candle(container, gel, and wick) and the embedded candle(same container, gel, wick, and embed). By test case, I mean a test candle and embedded candle were made for each amount of time I wanted to test at(xhours, xdays, x months, and yes x years). There was no problem with the control candle, only the embedded candle, in each case. And I used a variety of embeds - different store bought brands, homemade, etc.

I respect your opinion. When in doubt, and I was, I always test. My test results are what works for me. I was pointing that out. For safety and peace of mind, testing should be done. I did test. These are the same points that were hashed out years ago. The other heated discussion was candy in gel candles. Many insisted it was safe and sold wicked candles like this. Makers said they lit them and they burned fine. But as many customers do, they purchased, and did not light them for months or years as they were so pretty to look at, but eventually they did light them, and many of the same problems appeared. Apparently, over time something in the candy leeched directly into the gel(sugar probably) and caused a problem. Now when you see these candles, they are mostly double glassed.

[Candlemaking.com]

This is off subject a little but you had the gel catch fire with no fragrance? The flash point on most gel (non homemade) is around 430 degrees. That must have been one super hot candle and flame.

[Bernadette]

Penreco gel. I would never use homemade gel as I've tested that too with less than favorable results. I forgot to mention that not only the containers were the same, but the wick and gel density too.

[Bernadette]

It's early here, so I forgot, but I just went back and pulled my notes on this test.

For each embed type(bought brand, homemade), I held a stick lighter(the kind you'd use to light a grill, candle, etc.) to first, no gel casing. I held the flame there for a full minute. Some were fine, some had black streaks where the flame had been, and some actually lit or flamed. Then I coated each embed type in gel, waited until it was set up, and applied flame again. Basically, the same result. Still, I tested them all in the candle, even though I could tell some were definately going to be a problem, because I wanted to see the result and didn't want to wonder down the line what the result would have been. Glad I did, because the ones that flamed, REALLY clouded up the gel and actually turned the gel a yellowish tint over time, although other embeds that didn't flame also clouded the gel.

So each test had a control candle and embedded candle with clear Penreco gel, same container, same wick, no fragrance. :tiptoe:

[CathyinME]

LOL a little debate going on huh!!! I will not be using any clay in my gels cause I don't really want to do an insert one. I do believe that the clay will catch fire just like sand does when a flame comes into contact with it.

Hey what about plastic:rolleyes2 I saw some at my last show & I am 99.9% sure that the items she had in the gels were plastic & not with the insert either. this is someone who has been around a while too:sad2: i was shocked when i saw that.

[Bernadette]

No dispute...just giving my test results. There isn't much I haven't tested.

[CathyinME]

No dispute...just giving my test results. There isn't much I haven't tested.

Your test results are great. Too bad more people didn't do that much testing. I have boxes of test candles that didn't turn out how I wanted them to!!!

[Bernadette]

Well...it's not just insufficient testing by people using gel(shaking head) Saw an auction on eBay last night for a soy jar candle with real pinecone embeds!!!! And on the very top, there were 3 pinecones pressed tightly up against the wick! Pinecones are used for firestarters!!!

[Wessex]

Well...it's not just insufficient testing by people using gel(shaking head) Saw an auction on eBay last night for a soy jar candle with real pinecone embeds!!!! And on the very top, there were 3 pinecones pressed tightly up against the wick! Pinecones are used for firestarters!!!

Well that's what that candle is going to be...a firestarter!

Cheers,

Steve

[CathyinME]

Well...it's not just insufficient testing by people using gel(shaking head) Saw an auction on eBay last night for a soy jar candle with real pinecone embeds!!!! And on the very top, there were 3 pinecones pressed tightly up against the wick! Pinecones are used for firestarters!!!

OMG Yeah that definately will be a fire starter:mad: Don't you just want to send a message to them telling them what idiots they are. I feel real bad for anyone who buys & lights that candle.