c-3 what happened

[tam1116]

C-3 6%fo heated 185poured at155

This happened to 3 that i tested any ideas maybe an air pocket if so how do you avoid it

[jeanie353]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23704[/ATTACH]

C-3 6%fo heated 185poured at155

This happened to 3 that i tested any ideas maybe an air pocket if so how do you avoid it

I just asked another member what she thought happened as this recently began happening to me using C3. She thinks possibly pouring too fast.

For the 1st 80% of the bag the product worked perfect for me. I really liked it and was going to use it for my soy. Heated like you did to 180ish, poured sometimes at 160, sometimes didn't take temp and never had it happen until suddenly. I'd cool on a rack and cool on the counter and didn't have it happen.

I had one jar where it was hidden under the top layer of the wax so not seeing it, wicked it and was burning it when the flame hit the air pocket and the flame got way out of control. Luckily I had it burning close to me to catch it quick.

The others where it happened looked just like yours. Hitting them with a heat gun to fill the void didn't work for me. I'd find another void in the same jar. The odd thing is it never happened prior.

[lmc]

I used to get sink holes frequently in C3 until I took Stella's advice and started using USA and slowed down the cooling. I pour much cooler than most but then cool jars on cookie rack and cover them with large box. I do not like using heat guns and when needed, do a second pour instead.

[tam1116]

Where do you get USA from? What temp do you pour at?

[lmc]

The Candlemakers Store is the only supplier I know of that carries USA. I pour between 115*-120*...no wet spots and zero frosting-its what works for me...hth

[laurenscandlebakery]

Keep in mind: I've only been making candles since Dec and am still in the process of testing and more testing in order to get everything right.

My personal preference when working with C-3 is to pour at a hotter temp. Every time I try a lower pour temp, I've gotten sink holes. That never happens when I pour hotter. It could also be that you poured too fast, but I don't have any personal experience with that and wouldn't know what that would look like.

[Stella1952]

C-3 6%fo heated 185poured at155

I use 1 Tbsp. USA/PP & 1/8 tsp. UV inhibitor. I heat the wax to 185°F, add perewqrmed FO/dye & stir down to 165°F and pour. I have had issues at temps between 155-135 which is why I nearly always pour hot. There are occasions when I pour cool, but when I say "cool" I mean VERY cool when the wax is satiny, not clear, and the consistency of thin pudding.

I pour relatively slowly - when pouring a deep container, I usually pour down the wick slowly. Too fast causes the wax to contain air bubbles, which in the case above, look like they all collected along the wick near the top. They were trying to collect and rise but the cooling candle kept that from happening completely. Even if you do not initially see air bubbles in the hot wax, there are tiny ones which come together to make larger ones, etc. until the whole mess of air bubbles collect into large air pockets if they cannot surface & pop.

This can be avoided by pouring more slowly AND giving the containers a few *thumps* on the counter as they cool so that any air bubbles will rise to the surface and pop rather than collect together into a cavern just under the surface or along the wick. HTH :-)

[jeanie353]

I used to get sink holes frequently in C3 until I took Stella's advice and started using USA and slowed down the cooling. I pour much cooler than most but then cool jars on cookie rack and cover them with large box. I do not like using heat guns and when needed, do a second pour instead.

hmmm....I had put USA in and poured both ways of cooling on a rack covered with towels and then began to just sit them on the counter and found they still turned out very nice with no sink holes for the first like 8 lbs or so.

It wasn't until toward the end of the bag this began happening. Could be a fluke it happened then, I don't know but with the one not being seen until it was lit was the scariest moment I've had in candle making. The bag was kept closed, in a cool dry place with the other waxes so I'm pretty sure it was not due to a moisture issue.

The temp I poured at was about 150-160. I didn't take the temp of the wax. First batch I did pour cool like regular soy w/o additives and it wasn't very pretty. Then learned it should be poured hotter and did get very smooth tops, excellent glass adhesion, etc. I'd go from the presto (where wax was heated to 180-185) to the pour pot and into the jars. FO is added in the Presto along with dye at 180-185.

I'm thinking if it was a pour temp issue it would of happened on earlier batches as well. I was very pleased with C3 to where I was going to use it as my soy and did recommend it to others....then this happened.

I did get my USA from TCMS

Just wanted to warn others to beware of possible hidden air pockets so no one gets hurt. It was hidden deep enough into the container where if I were selling candles it would of went out the door to a customer.

Oh, also this was on a 16 oz Keepsake jar. Dye used was a dye diamond. FO was from one of the regular reputable suppliers many of us use.

Edited March 5, 2012 by jeanie353
additional

[Stella1952]

I used to get sink holes frequently in C3 until I took Stella's advice and started using USA and slowed down the cooling.

To clarify... there is a BIG difference in a sinkhole and the formation of caverns we see above, although they both can have similar origins. A sinkhole happens when the top of the container cools too rapidly for the bottom. The surface is sucked down by the much hotter interior.

USA has nothing to do with mitigating sinkholes or air pockets to my knowledge. What USA WILL do is enhance the texture of the wax somewhat and reduce frosting. It isn't a miracle substance. If you don't pour C3 and cool it right, a rail car of it won't help you.

This can be resolved by cooling on a rack and cooling more evenly. The phenomenon above is MORE likely to occur in tall, deep containers than one whose diameter and height are more evenly matched. This is true of any veggie wax, not just one particular brand of soy. Understand when I say *deep* or *tall*, I am not talking solely about the actual height/depth, but the ratio of the height/depth to the diameter.

Tam, is that a standard 8 oz. jelly jar in the photo?

The OP's problem (in the photo above) is a combination of pouring and cooling too fast in a deep container. The air bubbles created during the fast pour tried to collect and rise to the surface, but the top solidified, so they all joined together into a cavern along the wick just under the surface which was exposed when the candle was lit. The MP drained into the lower portions of the cavern (tragically drowning many cave divers), allowing the wick to flare, because the MP was suddenly emptied - a completely undesirable, dangerous situation for a container candle. :undecided

Pour slower, cool more evenly, and thump the containers gently a few times as they cool to loosen any air bubble clingons from the wick so they can rise and burst to atmosphere.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Stella1952

[tam1116]

Thanks for all the advice everyone!!!!!

Stella this is a 120z jelly jar.

[Stella1952]

I couldn't tell from the angle, but I thought it might be the showier 12 oz... I love those, but they are more difficult to wick properly than the standard 8 oz. Good luck and please keep us updated. :-)