crazzie Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I know this has been ask several times but . . .What makes a candle throw both hot and cold.WickTemp the wax is melted atTemp in which the wax is cooled Temp when you add your fragranceWaxFragranceAnd how do you know if you purchased a good fragrance?Just thought this would be a good thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam W Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 WickTemp the wax is melted atTemp in which the wax is cooled Temp when you add your fragranceWaxFragrance==============All the above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjdaines Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I'm no fragrance chemist buy temperature seems to play a major roll in the perception of the scent. I am assuming that FOs are dissolved in a volatile carrier that transition from liquid to vapor form at room temp and above. This is way you can smell them right out of the bottle. The warmer the FO the more and faster the oil converts to a vapor which we smell. The wax acts as an agent the holds the FO suspended throughout the candle and as the wax melts it should release the FO which then vaporizes and we smell it. The CT is the small amount of FO that is still able to vaporize at room temp. More or less CT depends on how the wax interacts with the FO and allows is to vaporize. I have no idea how this wax/FO chemistry works but they are both lipids (waxes and oil) so I assume that there can be some chemical interaction and that the wax is not inert.So, move vaporizing of the FO equals more perceived smell and more heat equals more vaporization. Melts use an external source and candles use an internal source of heat. Candles use the wax for fuel to generate the heat. The FO and carrier can also be consumed as fuel. I would guess that the majority of the scent comes from the melt pool and that FO burned in the flame does not. So the job is to create a good sized melt pool with the flame. Now we add all the restrictions: the candle can't be to hot, the flame can't be too weak, we want no soot, we want clean sides, and so on. Getting the FO out of the wax is easy if one doesn't care about what the candle looked like and how it burned.That's my working hypothesis and it all comes down to the balancing act of FO release and burn. Your other points, like temp in which the wax is cooled at and the temp when you add your fragrance deal with how well the FO is distributed within the wax, which are also important points as well as the type of wax. Again, I'm chemist but I assume that wax type (formula or blend formula) play a major role in FO release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeanie353 Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) I know this has been ask several times but . . .What makes a candle throw both hot and cold.WickTemp the wax is melted atTemp in which the wax is cooled Temp when you add your fragranceWaxFragranceAnd how do you know if you purchased a good fragrance?Just thought this would be a good thread.I'm going through that now. Working with a parasoy....What I can say from my experience only is that the temp the FO is added at is very important for CT & HT but also am finding the wick to play a very big part. For instance...I was getting a fantastic throw on some scents using ECO wicks. On other scents it was very light. On those scents I thought were light, I put a CD wick in and had awesome ST. This was all in the same wax, melted to the same temp and FO added at same temp. I found if I transfer from the Presto to the pour pot, and then mixed the FO in the pour pot, the ST was weaker due to the wax temp dropping during the transfer. If I mixed in the Presto, I didn't have that problem since the heat stayed consistent at 185.HTH Edited December 2, 2011 by jeanie353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRcandles Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 jeanie, could this be because your fragrance sinks to the bottom when its transfered to the pour pot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam W Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I found if I transfer from the Presto to the pour pot, and then mixed the FO in the pour pot, the ST was weaker due to the wax temp dropping during the transfer. If I mixed in the Presto, I didn't have that problem since the heat stayed consistent at 185.HTHI set my pour pot in a pan of hot water while I do the mixing of FO & dye - so the temp stays consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjdaines Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I set my pour pot in a pan of hot water while I do the mixing of FO & dye - so the temp stays consistent.I just use the Presto Pot for melting and also transfer the wax to a pouring pot. The pot goes on to a warming plate and brought back to 185 before FO is added and, of course, stir, stir, stir... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeanie353 Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 jeanie, could this be because your fragrance sinks to the bottom when its transfered to the pour pot?What I was doing when I used the pour pot to transfer is put some wax in from the Presto pour spout, put the pour pot back on the scale and add my FO. I'd then add more wax from the Presto spout until it weighed out the correct amount on the scale. Stirred and poured. It wasn't sinking to the bottom but it wasn't incorporating well. I'd find maybe a little bit on the bottom of the pour pot when I'd wipe it down but not enough to set off alarms this was happening for well over a week. Went back to my old way of doing it all in the Presto and have no more problems with that. However, I am having issues with wicks. Not the burn on the wicks. I can get a perfect burn with Eco wicks but on some scents I am losing throw. When I put CDs in, I had awesome scent throw but really bad burning.I've tried getting different waxes but I'm so spoiled with the CBL130 nothing else seems to compare. Soooo, between yesterday and today I've been testing RRD wicks. Not too bad so far. I'm getting good ST...just hoping I can dial them in better. Next up is CDN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeanie353 Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) I set my pour pot in a pan of hot water while I do the mixing of FO & dye - so the temp stays consistent.I have been doing this technique recently when laying pillars for the different colors. I use a roaster pan with up to four double boiler makers using two burners for the roaster. It works good for that. When I'm doing candles, I usually do quite a few at one time from one scent so mixing in the Presto worked out good for that. I tried the pour pot technique after reading it on the board.I do want to get an electric burner side plate. One with two burners would be really nice. Edited December 2, 2011 by jeanie353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeanie353 Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 The pot goes on to a warming plate On my wish list rj....problem is that list is awful long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjdaines Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 On my wish list rj....problem is that list is awful long I've seen some horrible burning candle that gave a great HT (quite a few BBW ones) and some picture perfect burning candles that didn't. My interpretation is that the poor burning candles were making enough heat to get a melt pool and therefore the HT and the "great" burning candles were burning off the FO before it had a chance to vaporize from the MP. In the latter case, I'd drop down on wick size to reduce the rate of consumption. Problem is we want it all, a great burn and a great smell. Find the right combination of wick, FO, and wax make that a challenge. Sometimes I don't start getting a food HT until the candle is half gone. Explanation - more of the heat is now going into the container and I am getting a wider and deeper melt pool. If is wick up to get it sooner, I end up with a HOT container and a weak HT at the end because a lot of the FO is gone. Tricky, a real balancing act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeanie353 Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I've seen some horrible burning candle that gave a great HT (quite a few BBW ones) and some picture perfect burning candles that didn't. My interpretation is that the poor burning candles were making enough heat to get a melt pool and therefore the HT and the "great" burning candles were burning off the FO before it had a chance to vaporize from the MP. In the latter case, I'd drop down on wick size to reduce the rate of consumption. Problem is we want it all, a great burn and a great smell. Find the right combination of wick, FO, and wax make that a challenge. Sometimes I don't start getting a food HT until the candle is half gone. Explanation - more of the heat is now going into the container and I am getting a wider and deeper melt pool. If is wick up to get it sooner, I end up with a HOT container and a weak HT at the end because a lot of the FO is gone. Tricky, a real balancing act.So true in that it is a tricky balancing act. Most times I don't detect much ST until the MP is about the size of a half dollar or so. I'll get little whiffs through the air only. Once it becomes larger it begins to fill the room. That is all well and fine but that balance of the ST not being burned off too soon is driving me crazy with these wicks in some fragrances only. Most of my CC fragrances do extremely well with the Eco wicks from start to finish. The other suppliers...is very much hit and miss. With CDs, all suppliers are throwing. If I could only get the CDs to burn acceptable I'd be one happy camper. Time will tell if the RRDs are going to work out or not as I get to the middle of the jar where they begin to heat up more. As of now, they are doing very well in both burn and throw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjdaines Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 @Jeanie what wax are we discussing? I typically test LX, HTP, and CD wicks. I am finding with 4630 that while HTP gives me a better burn, the LX and CD wicks give a better HT. If I had to pick one, I am now leaning towards the CD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeanie353 Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 @Jeanie what wax are we discussing? I typically test LX, HTP, and CD wicks. I am finding with 4630 that while HTP gives me a better burn, the LX and CD wicks give a better HT. If I had to pick one, I am now leaning towards the CD.We are discussing CBL130. I've tried so many others and not found one I liked as well as this. I'll switch if I have to for the wicking/ST issue but hoping to work the kinks out. I did try LX and had flames higher than I was comfortable with especially in the 10oz apoth jar (actually keepsake, I think). I love HTP wicks but am getting very low HT with this wax. I had thought of adding a bit more soy to this blend hoping the CDs would burn better. They would be perfect if I could get them to burn without the flame flipping around like crazy sometimes almost laying on its side. I've tried from a CD8 up to a 14. The 14 did the best. It also leaves a very messy jar for me when burning. Is that typical of CDs until they catch up later on in the burn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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