Wick question

[jen08]

Hello! I am testing 6 oz tins using CD 12 and CD 14. As the tests continue, the CD 12's are mushrooming and melting the wax much quicker than the CD 14's, and the 14's seem to be working better so far. Does this seem backwards? When I began the tests, I predicted that the 14's would be too big. Thanks in advance for any input.

[Stella1952]

Try a CD 10. The 14s and 12s are too big, at least for the 6 oz. tins I make with NatureWax C3...

Have you noticed how warm the tins get as the candle burns down? Did you test all the way to the end of the container with the 12s & 14s?

[jen08]

Thanks, Stella, as soon as more wax gets here, I will try CD 10's for these. I am still in the process of burning these testers to the bottom. So far 2 out of the 3 sets are not hot to the touch at all. The 3rd set is an obvious no. Here are pictures following (the day after) the 5th test burn. Still no mushrooms have appeared on the CD 14s.

The pictures are not great, but the CD 12's are on the left and the 14's are on the right.

[Stella1952]

It's fascinating that the 14s have more hangup than the 12s. The mushrooms on the 12s (I didn't see any in the photos) will produce more heat, which may explain the higher RoC... When I tested mine, the 12s worked equally well compared to the 10s, but when I powerburned them, the 12s became hotter than I found acceptable. The 10s start off slowly - FMP usually does not occur during the first test burn - but burn slow and true all the way to the bitter end... at least in the wax I use with 1 oz. of FO PP. It may be an optical illusion, but the wax in the 14 container looks a little darker than the 12...

Any chance that you could have mixed up the wicks?

How much FO are you using?

What kind of wax is this?

What's the diameter of your tins?

How long are you burning them?

Looking forward to seeing how your tests come out...

[IwantItgreen]

According to the Wicks Unlimited the CD14 has a lower rate of consumption and smaller flame than the CD12. Melt pool on the 14 is larger than the 12 however.

Here's the wick guide pdf from WU. Bookmark it, it is a very valuable guide: http://www1.stimpson.com/~stimpson/WicksUnlimited.pdf

[jen08]

Hi!

Stella - The wax may appear darker because of the lighting. Well, when I was wicking them, I was very careful about not mixing them up. With these results, I was starting to think maybe the supplier mixed them...but I'm sure they really didn't. Here's my info:

I am using 1.2 oz. FO/ lb.

The wax is 415 with 1 tbsp USA + 2 tsp CO/ lb. (Love it!)

My tins are 2 13/16" across

I have been burning them for 3 hours at a time. My flames have never been higher than 1/2", sometimes a little smaller. And, my goodness, these are probably the strongest candles I have ever made.

IWantItGreen - Very interesting! Thank you for the website.

[annie123]

Test a CD 8.

[Stella1952]

Here's the wick guide pdf from WU

Don't forget to read the fine print... The wax type and other additives matter.

Chart statistics contributed by Heinz Verhaegh Corp. These statistics are

based on accepted industry standards for molded and filled, fully refined paraffin wax candles

and should be viewed as reasonable estimates for comparison purposes only. Actual results

should be determined on an application-by-application basis.

Test a CD 8.

I think with the candle composition, the 8 isn't going to cut it, but it never hurts to try just for informational purposes.

these are probably the strongest candles I have ever made.

415 has always reigned as the best thrower of all the soy waxes. It's deficiencies are its appearance, but with adding CO & USA, the texture should be more stable. I had some pretty good results with preliminary tests of palm oil & USA. They both did an adequate job, but together, the morphing was minimized. I think your use of CO & USA is a good idea.

[ChandlerWicks]

Thank-you, Thank-you!

According to the Wicks Unlimited the CD14 has a lower rate of consumption and smaller flame than the CD12. Melt pool on the 14 is larger than the 12 however.

Here's the wick guide pdf from WU. Bookmark it, it is a very valuable guide: http://www1.stimpson.com/~stimpson/WicksUnlimited.pdf

[jen08]

Hello! Just an update on the testing...

Well...I have completed 8 testburns on the CD 12s and 14s.

Set #1: Sea Mist (results following 8th burn)

CD 12: no mushroom, most of hang up melted...container's barely warm

CD 14: no mushroom, almost all hang up melted...container's barely warm

Both tins have a nice-looking flame (not quite 1/2")

Looks like there's about 1/4" wax left following burn.

Set #2: Fresh Pear (results following 8th burn)

CD 12: mushroom, all hang up melted, container was very warm

CD 14: small mushroom (1st one to show up in this tin), all hang up melted, tiny bit of black soot at the top

Flames are both right around 1/2"

About 1/4" wax left at bottom of tin

I will continue to burn these testers to the end.

I have also made testers with CD 8 and CD 10. I have only done 1 test burn on these and will continue these to the end also.

Sea Mist:

CD 8: About 1/4" flame (seems tiny), no mushroom, and about 1/8"-1/2" hang up all around. (Predicting this wick will be too small.)

CD 10: 1/2" flame, no mushroom, thin hang up (one side)- 1/4" hang up on the other.

Fresh Pear:

CD 8: Nice flame (about 1/2" tall), no mushroom, about 1/4" hang up all around

CD 10: 3/4" flame, tiny mushroom (already, on the first burn), and thin hang up all around. (Predicting this wick will be too big.)

I'll continue to burn all of these to the bottom. Thanks for looking everyone, and for the help.

[jen08]

Oh, and I had one quick question about the wick size...I think all this testing has me going googly-eyed, and am kind of getting more confused. I felt like I almost had it...now..I guess we'll see. When I was testing the CD 12s & 14s, I really liked the size of the flame...it was nice and comfortable, right around 1/2" high and the scent throw was great. Now that I'm getting to the last few burns, the tin is getting very warm, and they are mushrooming. I only have about 1/8" wax left in the bottom, so they are almost done. Is this normal, or could you say that this is definitely over-wicked? Because... I have now completed the 2nd test burn of the CD 8 and CD 10 wicks, and I realize that it is still early, but the flame is smaller, right around 3/8" high, and there is about 1/4" hang up all around. The scent throw is no where near what it was with the larger wicks. I know that as I continue, the hang up will melt, I guess what I am asking, is what is a good flame size for a tin? Sorry...I know this is a little rambly...Thank you for the help.

[Stella1952]

Here's the deal as I see it: I first make sure I have cured the candle long enough to give the FO a chance to develop in the wax - for me that's one week. I am looking for a wick size that doesn't have a torch-sized flame, which cleans the container pretty well (residue is acceptable to me, particularly in tins) and which heats the MP enough to have a good hot throw. I want to use the smallest size wick that I can that meets those parameters. I do not judge a wick test (unless the unacceptability is obvious) until I have burned the container to the end. And that's what I look for in an initial wick test. After I am satisfied, I do a powerburn test to make sure I don't wanna go up (hardly ever) or down (more often) one size... HTH

[rjdaines]

Burn the CD8 and CD10 testers all the way and you may see the hang up go (most likely). I've seen wicks go as you described with the CD12 and CD14 testers, the mushrooming is carbon build up from incomplete combustion. The burn conditions are obviously different at the end of the burn than the beginning. I would be more concerned about the 1/8 inch of wax left, how much are you planning on having at the bottom before the wick burns out? Some should be left for safety reasons, burning it dry is not a good idea.

[jen08]

Hi, I'm back! Been testing more, and have come up with pretty consistant results. CD 8s start out nice. Then after a few burns, flames get smaller, but the hang up still melts. But they all develop huge mushrooms. CD 10s start out really nice, then after a few burns....mushrooms. They still all smell really nice, but I can't take any more mushrooms! They all get trimmed to 1/4 inch before I light them and they start out just beautiful. Then about 1 hour into the test, the mushrooms start to grow... Tricks me every time. I'm thinking about pulling out my old ECOs from years ago and testing them again...not real sure what to do.

[Stella1952]

Uncombusted or inflammable material builds up at the end of the wick. If the wick cannot curl so that the tip is in the hottest zone of the flame, mushrooms will result. Sometimes this is caused by particular FOs, dyes or contaminants in the wax. If the wick posture is too erect, this can also happen. How large are the 'shrooms? Something small should burn off (self-trim). If they are too large, they can cause overheating... Does this happen with all FOs? Photos would help...

[coconut]

When I have mushroom issues, I switch to my Premier wicks (designed for soy). I have had very good luck with these wicks even though I use paraffin. Eco wicks mushroom something fierce for me. I doubt if I have large enough wicks to help you as I understand Soy takes larger wicks, but Coal Creek Candle Supply offers sample packs. BTW, I have tried almost every wick on the market today including the CD wicks, but I love Premier the best. HTH

[jen08]

Stella - I am still in the process of burning a few testers. Some of them are developing small mushrooms which are falling off. I'll see how much bigger they get as I continue to test them(Apple Harvest CD 10 and Vanilla CD 10). I am also testing a few that have not develped any mushrooms yet. My real enemies are Fall Harvest and Sea Mist. I tested Fall Harvest with a CD 10. After the 6th test burn I dismissed it as too big. The tin wasn't too hot, but the remainder of the wax (1/2") was completely melted, along with all the hang up and it had a HUGE mushroom. So I tested a CD 8. Here are a few shots taken after the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd hour of the 6th test burn:

Could a CD 8 possibly be too big? Thank you for all your help with this.

Coconut - Thank you for the recommendation. I have heard lot of good things about those wicks...

[Stella1952]

OK - to be specific, I am assuming that your 6 oz containers are of the same inside diameter as the ones I use (2 5/8")... My preference is ALWAYS CDNs, but if people only have CDs, they wick similarly, in terms of size, but not necessarily in terms of performance. What bothers me is the size of the shrooms I am seeing... I medium or larger shroom will add a lot of heat and throw off the results considerably. The stance looks decent, so the wick isn't handling something in the candle very well... My best suggestion is to test a CDN 8 & 10 (I use CDN 10s in mine). You mentioned that not all of the FOs are producing the larger shrooms, so this is something I would note about those FOs. If they still produce unacceptable shrooming when using a CDN, I would look for the same fragrances from another supplier... Remember: all FOs are NOT created alike, even among highly reputable suppliers. ALL suppliers have "duds" and it doesn't matter if Chandler A, B & C all say a particular wick/size works perfectly in the same wax, same container, same FO, same amount - if they don't work for YOU, that's what you go with...

I have another set of questions/comments... how long are you testing for each test period? You should be testing 1 hour for each inch of INSIDE container diameter. If your 6 oz. tins are the same size as mine, each test period should be for 2.5 hours each.

I only have about 1/8" wax left in the bottom, so they are almost done.

That is way past done! Your wick should self-extinguish at 1/2" of wax remaining. You also said:

The tin wasn't too hot, but the remainder of the wax (1/2") was completely melted

Warning labels caution customers NOT to continue burning containers when only 1/2" of wax remains in the bottom and our job is to make sure the wick self-extinguishes there whether the customer follows directions or not. At that point, the wick should self-extinguish, depending on the seal and the height of the wicktab.

The wax does become liquid during the last 1/2" (depth of the FMP) which is what makes it so important to affix the wick tab securely to the bottom so, 1) the wick tab cannot move, and, 2) no liquid wax can be sucked into the wick from underneath and allow the candle to continue burning. The adhesive acts both as an anchor for the tab and as a sealer. If the adhesive softens, it can allow liquid wax to be drawn by the wick from underneath, defeating the safety aspect of the self-extinguishing wick tab. An unattached wicktab can wander off-center during the liquid end of a candle simply because of the convection currents in the wax - this creates a very unsafe situation. The wick will continue sucking liquid fuel from underneath until there is virtually no wax left, leading to overheating and potential fire.

[jen08]

Hello! I'm not sure how to use the quote tool, so I hope my answers make sense:

I have been testing for the wrong amount of time (3 hours). You're right, I measured the inside of my tin and it is 2 5/8. I was going by the dimentions on the supplier's website, which had to have been the outside measurement.

As for the tester that had 1/8" wax left and was still going; I know what I did. (And will NOT do again). I used the wrong tab on that wick (short neck instead of the long neck). The tab with the longer neck should be more likely to extinguish the wick with a safe amount of wax left, right? I will retest that one and see what happens. That was the only tester I tabbed myself with a long leftover wick.

I am using a high-heat heat gun to affix my wicks to the bottom of the container. I had a regular heat gun years ago, then upgraded when my wicks came loose a few times. Is there something safer to use, to assure that what you mentioned above never happens? (You scared me, which is good, we need to be safe.)

[Stella1952]

Aw heck, a half hour wouldn't make that much difference... Some people arbitrarily choose 3 hours, so it isn't THAT critical... what's more important is testing for the same length of time each time you test the candle.

high-heat heat gun

You mean a high temp glue gun? I use high temp hot glue when testing 'cause it's easy to remove. For candles that are going out the door to others, I use Permatex High Temp silicon gasket sealer (red) available at auto parts places everywhere. The stuff is great - have never had a failure with it, but you have to wick several hours in advance (best overnight) to allow it to harden & cure. For people who want to repurpose the container, it's a PITA to remove the wicktab... I use a single edge razor blade. It just takes a dot right over the hole on the underside of the wicktab. I use the empty barrel of a ball point pen to press the wicktab onto the bottom of the container. It mooshes the sealer down evenly on all sides. Someone shared that tip here years ago and I am forever in their debt - brilliant!!

Edited September 30, 2011 by Stella1952