Dripless Taper quest

[EricofAZ]

So I'm going nuts here trying to build a dripless taper. I have some taper moulds similar to this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/4-TUBE-TAPER-Metal-Candle-Mold-10-inch-Tapers-/360367720941?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e79709ed

The tapers look fabulous and lend well to dipping with cut and curl.

The problem is the dripless part. I've gone from 15 ply down to TL10, tried zinc, cotton core, etc. They all drip so I've come to the conclusion its the wax.

Yankmee Candles touts a dripless candle that has a soft center core and hard outer shell. That's not practicable for me given the mould process vs. making tapers in a dipping vat, though I guess I could since they get dipped for the cut/curl process.

I bought some tapers at various stores today. All made in China or Mexico. All cheap. Not one gave me a sense of dual wax, they were pretty much the same all the way through (cut them open - reverse engineering). All burned well, no drip.

So I'm adding vybar and experimenting as well with stearic to alter the burn, will know more about that tomorrow, but not sure how that effects the cut/curl.

My TL10 wick is very small flame. I'm using 140MP wax. The storebought has a larger wick, more like a P160 or so by the looks of it and the FH is at least 1.3 inches. I can't dream of that kind of a flame with my wax without a huge overflow.

I've experimented with wicks that tend to have a higher ROC to FH ratio than others and to no avail.

I want to make my own tapers so that I can have a tall wick to use to work with in the cut/curl process so buying at the store (unless I re-melt) won't be an option.

Any thoughts?

[JanetsCandles]

Only way I've gotten dripless is by hand dipping, or after molding, using high MP wax as an overdip. And 12 ply flat braid wick. Check to make sure your test candles on burning. It's amazing what sort of stuff you can just mentally block out. I had one that was refusing to not drip and it was driving me nuts. I forgot that I had the AC on. And every time it kicked on, even though the vent wasn't in a direct line to the candle, it still created enough draft to blow it off center and cause it to drip. Closed the vent and it worked fine. It's easier to solve the environmental issues than it is to stress on tweaking the formula.

[beekeeper_sd]

One word: BEESWAX

[EricofAZ]

Last beeswax taper I made dripped like crazy. Probably overwicked.

I want to use these for cut/curl and they have to be dripless. Beeswax would be way too expensive to use for the base candle and the base needs to be white.

I wish I knew what wax this was on the tapers bought out of Mexico. It is a hard creamy white, no drip, very tall flame.

[EricofAZ]

So, now on to a P160 wick. The flame is staying above the melt pool instead of right down there touching it. This is good. Also, I went to 128MP wax with vybar and stearic. This wax is pretty hard to the touch despite its MP. Half way consumed now and no leakage, even with the AC kicking on and off (and the flame does bend a bit when the air kicks on). There is a pretty decent sized mushroom forming though (no FO at all).

Edited June 16, 2011 by EricofAZ

[Jason]

I have no experience making tapers but I read somewhere about soaking tapers in saltwater to make them dripless. Just throwing that out there in case it might be of some help.

[EricofAZ]

Jason, I did a google search on that and I see where you are coming from. I might try it. The tapers are a base for cut and carve candles so I'm not sure how the dipping in the carving wax will work with the sodium penetration on the base candle. I'm trying something new tonight first....

So one company (genwax) suggests adding high melt point microcrystaline wax to their 140 MP wax for a good dripless taper. That's easier for me than soft core/hard shell.

I made a few tapers tonight with a variation. IGI 1343 plus vybar and stearic and microcrystaline wax. Now yesterday the 1343 with only vybar and stearic was less translucent and more opaque white, but the end burn lit my holder on fire like a firestarted. This micro additive in addition to the vybar/stearic mix turned the candle back towards a more translucent appearance (not wanted for my cut/carve project).

Got one going right now on a burn and so far its great, but its too early to tell. Very hard candle, you can't put your finger nail into the side of the candle very far (translation = high on the rockwell harness tester compared to most candles). The flame is beautiful, wide, round, medium height.

Edited June 17, 2011 by EricofAZ

[EricofAZ]

So the P160 wick and 4725 with vybar and stearic was kinda looking good for a dripless until it hit about the 2/3 mark. The droppings from the wick lit off and I had a substantial fire going on the top of the taper.

I'm going to try wicking up. Faster ROC might help.

[EricofAZ]

BUMP!

Hey gang.....

So, I have built and tested way too many tapes now. Vybar, stearic, yada yada. I finally found some 4807 at LetItShineUSA and raw, with no additives, it was the first taper that really didn't drip at all during the entire burn. However, subsequent burns had just a smidge of overflow at certain stages of the burn. It burned fast.

So the other day I received some Candlewic 4045EC wax at the recommendation of Bruce. First taper released pretty easy from the mould (ahhh, we really like that) and it not only was a slow and long lasting burn, but it didn't drip at all. In fact, looking at how the melt pool forms compared to all the other attempts, this is not even close to having an "accident" so I'm just jazzed.

[rjdaines]

YAY!!! And what wick did we decide on using?

[EricofAZ]

Well, I'm most familiar with the P160 so that is where I start. The pros are that it makes a good FH, the base of the flame is above the MP, and it gets the job done. The cons are that it tends to 'shroom a bit, the burned wick is too tall and when it finally self trims, the debris lands in the MP and has the potential to cause a rim fire (though I have not seen any yet with this wick). I am so familiar with how it burns that it is the baseline wick.

If this wax is truly "all that" then I might try a P140 if I can find them. Hard to locate. I might also go back to a shot at the Ply 18 or so. Maybe an RRD, but I doubt it. I want a wick that has a higher ROC to MP ratio meaning that it consumes faster for a smaller pool diameter.

[Stella1952]

Eric, while reading a soy wax patent last week, I saw another one that was about dripless tapers and I thought of you.

Dripless candle

United States Patent 4507077

Abstract:

A non-drip candle is formed of three layers including a thick low melt point core and a thin outer confining high melt wax layer affixed to the core by a special intermediate layer. The intermediate layer formulation includes a paraffin candle wax in combination with a similar quantity of double pressed stearic acid and a high purity tallow acid in the range of 0.5 to 60% and preferably 5 to 10% by weight. A microcrystalline wax of about 5% increases the melt point and produces a smooth finish to the candle, and a resin of about 1% imparts hardness to the layer to permit processing. The candle burns with a shallow rim confining the wax pool about the wick and the multiple layer construction functions to practically instantaneously heal any breach in the rim as the result of deflection of the flame or physical engagement with the rim to establish a true dripless candle.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4507077.html

HTH

[EricofAZ]

Stella, how nice of you. I might experiment a bit with dual wax type (and triple by the article above you found). Seems that most of the makers like Yankme and GeneralWax, etc, use a soft core with harder shell.

The concern that I have is a bit more oddball. I'm going to cut and curl the taper, which means the wax in all of its layers need to be compatible with curling. Then, the core gets exposed and needs to be clear, for luminescence, which means I am going to cut through the hard shell. And all that needs to be dripless.

So by way of feedback, the 4045 is not as good as I had hoped. It drips when the candle gets to the lower third (which I might be terminating sooner with the electrical spice thingie).

The 4807 is a good wax for the dripless part but not as clear as I want. So back to the drawing board.

Edited August 13, 2011 by EricofAZ

[Stella1952]

Maybe the harder outside layer can happen after the cut & curl?

After reading about the 3 layers, it got me thinking about veggie waxes... 415 in the middle, Ecosoya PB next and palm wax outside over all...

[Alan]

Usually, to get a dripless taper, you move in the direction of a larger wick. The logic is that a larger wick allows the wax to be consumed as fast as it melts, and you end up with a taper that doesn't drip.

[Stella1952]

Simple and brilliant!

[EricofAZ]

Alan, that is correct, the larger wick often has a higher ROC which is what we need for dripless. I have noticed that when selecting various different types of wicks and picking the same ROC of each series, the wicks don't all burn the same. Some, like the ply wicks and square tapers, drop the self trim waste into the melt pool and then there's a secondary fire that causes an overflow. Some burn very close to the melt pool, causing leakage.

One of the things I did was compare ROC to FH. The higher ROC with the lower FH seems intuitively to be the right pick and it is. I don't compare MP because veggie wicks have a MP measured in soy tests and paraffin wicks measure MP in paraffin. So you can't do any math based on MP since the base wax is different for the tests, but the FH and ROC is pretty accurate over at wicksunlimited in their catalogue info.

The P series for some odd reason tends to wick the melted wax up a bit and the base of the flame is visibly about 1/16 inch above the pool. This space between the base of the flame and the pool has had the best result in dripless burning. I'm using the P-160 as a baseline and when I get the wax where I want it, I'll try P-180 and above and also some P-140 if I can find it just to see the changes.

Now for the fun part. Its a ball making the cut/curl tapers then burning them. In one regard, I need the practice. In another regard, its cry time to burn one that came out really nice.

Of course, I can't re-use the wax for the candles, it has to go to firestarters. The mica and pigments and titanium dioxide just doesn't burn in a core and I don't want to try and mix the colors, so there is a lot of wax going to the campfires.

Edited August 13, 2011 by EricofAZ

[EricofAZ]

Here's a fun pic. This taper burned to a termination that I had about half way down. Just before the termination, a piece of the wick self trimmed and broke off and fell into the melt pool and created a secondary fire. By the time I got the camera, the primary wick self extinguished because the secondary had exposed it. You can see the flame from the secondary burn and to the left and above is a vertical black line which is the primary wick. Scary. No more ply wicks for me.

[Stella1952]

I hope Einstein was there with the fire extinguisher!!

Mondo cool photo, however! Why is it the really scary experiments make the best photos?!! Kinda reminds me of the triple wicked heart pillar I tested on top of the television... I must have dozed off for a few minutes and the thing had blown out and dripped wax all down the front of the screen onto the floor... It was very bright (even if I wasn't) LOL