ignite Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Hi everyone!!I've just started testing GB 464 and GB 444 using a 74mm wide, 88mm high glass tumbler with CDN14 wick. I bought my FO at Natures garden (Monkey farts) and used 10% for both. I heated the GB464 to 185F and immediately put in colour shavings from a dye block and my FO, stiring for about 2 mins. When the temp was at 170F I slowly poured into my jar.with the GB444 I heated the wax to 180F and immediately put in colour shavings from a dye block and my FO, stiring for about 2 mins. I then poured the wax at 135F.I waited 48hrs before testing.After 1 1/2 hr burn of the GB464 I could only smell the scent when i was standing about 2m from the candle. The burn pool wasnt too great either and still had unmelted wax around the inner edges.I got the same sort of result from the GB 444.I've read HTP wicks are better for GB/soy wax. Is this correct? Am I using the wrong type of wick??I just want to get my house smelling fabulous but I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong!! If anyone has any advice I would really appreciate it!!thanks heaps!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjdaines Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 I am using GW464 as well and using about the same diameter container, I use a CD16 or CD18 wick depending on the fragrance oil (FO) (heavier ones need more wick). I have added FO at hot temps and at cool temps and have found little difference with the FO that I have tested. Some FO will work and some won't, I have not used Monkey Farts, not sure I buy that based on the name but your basic set up should work. Try a few other scents, 1 oz testers are cheap. As others have said, bakery scents seem to work well and I am having luck for florals (orange blossom). Clean cotton was not so good.I have tried HTP wick with 464 and find I get better burns with the CDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignite Posted June 12, 2011 Author Share Posted June 12, 2011 (edited) is there much difference between cd and cdn wicks. I've only used cdn wicks but have read that HTP wicks are an excellent choice for soy. Can the wick type have any impact with scent throw?? I get a good burn, melt pool, and I add 10% FO. I've tried adding the FO at low temps and after the wax reaches 180F. I've read a lot of the posts on here and have tried making candles how ppl have suggested yet scent through has been very poor, sometimes not much at all after several hours burning. I've even let a few candles cure for well over a month and still nothing. I really need some suggestions on what I might be doing wrong!!!! Edited June 12, 2011 by ignite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardLOZ Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Monkey farts from NG is one of those scents that will need to sit in the wax for a while to develop before it will thrown Lemon Meringue Pie is another. I use both of these in 464 / palm combo, CDN wicks, 10 oz apothecary jar and both throw very well. These 2 scents I usually let sit for up to 4 - 6 weeks before I sell, with the LMP taking the longest to cure. MF you should be good to go after 1 - 2 weeks. I also use both of these oils at 6% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorelei Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 NG Monkey Farts has been a great strong oil in our line. Although I don't use 464 I do use 415 and Pillar Blend and this fragrance throws really well at 1oz per pound in both waxes. I use CD wicks in both waxes. The type of wick could affect the throw for sure, but before giving up on your wicks, try to wick up higher, and let the fragrance cure a little longer. You might want to even try going down a bit on your fragrance oil, say 6-9%. But Monkey Farts is a very strong one so you should not have to be using 10% to get a great throw.There was a fragrance from NG that was expensive and that was so light after pouring but I LOVED it OOB (Tibetian Amber). Good thing I told the customer to wait a week before burning it. I made it as a special order for this customer. I poured an extra clamshell for me and forgot about it in my desk drawer. More than a month later I saw it and wondered what it was. When I opened it, strong scent blew me away! A lot of people will give up a scent that takes that long to cure. I personally think that the scent really sometimes gets a lot of depth after curing. There is no set time frame for it, but with 415 I see the cure situation a lot. I've only found one oil I didn't really feel threw well in my soy so far.Monkey Farts I've seen with lots of people who use 464 so don't give up!Also how is your melt pool on these candles?Lorelei Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignite Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 thanks guys. I have only just started using the NG scents so I wasnt sure about cure time. I usually make the candles and burn 2 days or so later an get some scent throw. I was using Ecosoya advanced but kept getting frosting no matter what temp i poured at so I thought I'd test GB 464, 444, 415 and their crystallising palm wax to see which one is better before I buy a large bag. If I leave these candles now for 2-3 wks, even though I have burnt them for approx 2-3hrs will they still cure and get better?? or should I just make some more ? I've been making tarts out of GB 416 and they smell amazing!!!!! I think they are soo good I really should add less FO. Lorelei can you tell me what temps you use for heating, adding FO and pouring please for the 415? I think I might have to wick up with this wax. Ive been using a 3inch tumbler with CDN14 wick and the melt pool hasnt been going right to the edge on one side (even though my wick was centred). It was about 1/4 inch deep after 3ish hrs. I'm trying not to give up but its soooooo frustrating!! lol I wont though as I really enjoy making candles- just wish I could always get it right!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorelei Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 In the beginning it took a lot of work for me to get the right combinations of wick/wax/jar/FO. I'm heating 415 to 185 then adding FO and cooling down to the just slushy stage around 95-110. In the beginning I remember without fully understanding curing, I thought I would give up on the soy. I've now learned to work with it. I mostly make jar candles in natural color, so no frosting worries. When I have an all citrus FO I add it at about 160 after cooling from 185. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignite Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 Yeah thats how i made mine as well- heat to 185F add FO and poured at 100F for the 415. I think i'll wait and see now.I might try another FO and wait a few wks to cure them and see how they go. thanks for you help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon in KY Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) A candle should burn about an inch per hour. So a 3" diameter jar should take 3 hours, don't be in a hurry. The jar will get way too hot if it burns faster.You can try twisting your wick about 3-4 times when the wax is setting up. That way the flame turns keeping the sides melted. Or just keep burning, as the wick burns down it will start cleaning all the sides. Edited June 13, 2011 by Sharon in KY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardLOZ Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Yeah thats how i made mine as well- heat to 185F add FO and poured at 100F for the 415. I think i'll wait and see now.I might try another FO and wait a few wks to cure them and see how they go. thanks for you help See, now here is a perfect example of how things work differently for each person. Yes there are some scents that I need to cure for a number of weeks to get optimal HT, but I also pour very differently to you as well. I heat to 200F and pour at approximatley 180F. 98% come out with nice smooth tops, no wet spots, minimal frosting (reds . browns can be an issue sometimes), and I typically get great HT.What works for one, does not necessarily work for another. BTW I am not criticizing in any way, just making a general observation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonsie Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 I agree with the others that you should try dropping the FO % from 10% to 6-9%. I don't quite understand why this helps, but it sure does seem to make a difference for the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorelei Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Richard are you talking about 415 or 464? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardLOZ Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Richard are you talking about 415 or 464?Its 464 / palm blend, but even way back when I was using straight 464 I still poured hot. For me it made zero difference to the end result, whether I poured hot or slushy. Me being the kind of person I am could not stand to wait around while the damn wax went all slushy, so it works very well for me.Thats the great thing about palm. Heat hot, pour hot, get rid of voids, complete, start again. So much easier, but GG palm just does not sell well for us here, and I have no idea as to why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjdaines Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 I find I get less artifacts when I pour 464 hot (160F), also in one experiment based on pour temp, HT and CT seemed better with the container that was poured hot but that would need to be tested with each FO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon in KY Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 If I pour hot with the 435 I have to have a fan on it so it'll cool fast. I'm not sure about throw but it sure is easier than waiting. So GG doesn't sell well? Do your customers like the word SOY too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Back when I was testing 464 I always poured hot. I tried both hot and the recommended pouring temperature and hot worked best for me. I hate waiting too. Candles looked great and I had great how throw with the fragrance oils that I tested. Still debating what I will order...love the CBL130 from Candlewic but the price is a lot higher than 464. I found 2 cases of Perfect Blend that I was pouring before KY discontinued it and I switched to the 130. Since I take a summer break and only do requests...no craft shows...I will have enough wax to get me started on fall and Christmas containers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SliverOfWax Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 I find I get less artifacts when I pour 464 hot (160F), also in one experiment based on pour temp, HT and CT seemed better with the container that was poured hot but that would need to be tested with each FO. I have to ask. What is an "artifact"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjdaines Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 I have to ask. What is an "artifact"?That what I am calling disagreeable things like frosting and wet spots. Suppose one could use "imperfections" or "wax polymorphisms" as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardLOZ Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 I have to ask. What is an "artifact"?Artifact describes it pretty well I reckon, I might use that one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignite Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share Posted June 17, 2011 thank you all very much for your help!!! I burnt the NG Monkey farts 464 candle again tonight after curing for 1wk and OMG it smells amazing!! I never realised how important it is to just WAIT!! haha At least I know I'm not doing anything wrong!!! Soo relieved right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorelei Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 So glad, if you wait even a bit longer it will be stronger too! You've inspired me to test 464 a bit and see how it is. I'm a 415 user so I don't know if I can be impressed with the throw but I want a wax I can color without tons of frosting! I have tons of oils I need to use up so it will be fun to be in the testing mode again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignite Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 I think I will actually wait now. I still have to test the 415, 444 and crystalizing palm to see how the scent throws in those. I'll let you know how the 415 compares to the 464 in the same scent. I used dye blocks in all of them and didn't get any frosting, even the 415. I went away for the wknd so I cant wait till we get homeso I can test out the others The only changes I need to make is to wick up ! I noticed the same sized wick I used in the Ecosoya with these glasses was perfect but in the 464 there was still wax on the sides. I think even though the testing stage can be soooo frustrating, its still exciting once you see it all come together!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScentsofHeaven Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I have been pouring all my 415's at low temps, thanks for the information I am going to try to pour hot and see if that helps!! Question--I have found the Ecosoya is more expensive than the GB, is it a better product or just priced higher? I am almost out of 415 and I am wondering if I should try the other out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Ecosoya is more expensive than the GB, is it a better product or just priced higher? I am almost out of 415 and I am wondering if I should try the other out.Experimentation is always novel, but if you are generally satisfied with the wax you use, why put yourself through the testing phase to see if something else is a little better? Price of wax is a huge consideration these days, especially if you do not have a local supplier and must pay shipping. If you are just curious, research which of the EcoSoya container blend soy waxes (CB135, CBA and Excel) you wish to try and purchase a small quantity (which will cost even more) with which to play. Keep in mind that their 3 container blends are very different from one another and that at least one of the blends is NOT compatible with MANY FOs.If you are having issues with the wax you use, try researching those by using the Google Site Search tool (instructions can be found in the second post of this link from the General Candlemaking Forum sticky "Helpful Links for Newbies"). You will get a lot of "hits," but sifting through them will give you a ton of information from many experienced users. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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