New member, wicks and soot....

[Yvelis]

Hi everyone, I found this forum for a couple of days ago and have been reading a lot.

I started with candles for a couple of mounts ago and I'm still in the testing...testing seams to take forever!!

I live in Sweden and shipping here takes forever, so when I realize I need something..it's just a couple of weeks waiting...so incredible frustration..

Well, I have decided to use a mix of Ecosoya Excel and CB 135 (50%) just because I think it's the best, Excel is nice for making them look good but need so big wicks and I'm not sure about the HT. Mixing with CB-135 seams to be perfect. (EcoSoya is the only soy wax available over here)

Now to my current problem...I have purchased a lot of ECO's but I think they soot to much, I have also tested RRD and they doesn't soot but make kinda large mushrooms instead :-)

I have alos tested LX (mushroom way too much) CD's (soot too much) HTP ( not that bad, similar to RRD's))

Witch is better? Soot or mushrooms?? I think I prefer mushrooms, then ppl maybe trim the wicks..lol.. I really can't stand the soot, makes my candles look nasty and not ecological at all.

Ohh..I use a tumbler that is just under 3" (7 cm) 7 oz.

Sorry for the length of my first post

/Yvonne

[Stella1952]

Excel is nice for making them look good but need so big wicks

Soy wax does require larger wicks as opposed to paraffin because it is a thicker, more viscous wax. Since you are new to candlemaking, it seems that it would be better for you to use Excel by itself rather than mixing the two waxes since you have no experience in how either wax alone behaves.

CDs & CDNs (Stabilo & Stabilo KST, manufactured by Heinz Verhaegh) have always worked well for me in soy waxes. If you are having problems with sooting, I'd take a look at the size wick you are using, the amount of FO, dye and any other additives. A CD or CDN 12-14 are usually appropriate for 3" containers depending on the amounts of dye, FO and additives.

Witch is better? Soot or mushrooms?? I think I prefer mushrooms, then ppl maybe trim the wicks

When you say "mushrooms," how large are we talking here? How long had the candle been burning without trimming the wick? To what height was the wick trimmed?

I really can't stand the soot, makes my candles look nasty and not ecological at all.

There's nothing particularly ecological about candles, period, but I agree that sooting looks nasty. All wax produces soot (carbon) when burned, but when wicked properly, should not be noticeable unless the candle is burned in a draft or some other part of the candle system is out of balance. Certain shapes of containers are worse about trapping soot from the flame than are others.

If you have a photo you can post that shows the issues you are experiencing, that would help a lot, as well as giving us the sizes of the wicks you used, the amounts/types of dyes, FO & additives, etc. The more information we have, the better our suggestions will be.

[Yvelis]

Both Xcel and CB-135 are soywax from the same manufacturer. I tested first with CB- 135 but couldn't get a nice smooth top, and I'm talking about 2 mounts of testing, then I tested Xcel instead and tested for months, but was forced to use very large wicks (ECO 14 for Xcel instead of an ECO 6 for CB-135) and wasn't pleased with the HT (after 2 weeks of cure)

Thats why I decided to use a 50% blend, seams to work the best for me.

Now with my last test, I have a batch with 3 % fo (WYW) no colour and are testing with a RRD 47 (40 was too small) ECO 6 and 8 (8 is doing better) and a HTP 105.

Non gave a FMP with the first burn, now I'm in the third burn and almost half way down and get a FMP after 1,5 - 2 hours on all wicks.

After approx 1 hour the mushroom starts (and I trim to 1/4 inch) before each burn, but it's not that big so it fells of but doesn't look good.

Every time I tried a ECO I get sooting, even when I try a too small wick. Maybe it's the container. CD's was very similar to ECO's when I tried them, but I will test CD's some more.

I will try to take a pic and show.

[CandleAddict_RN]

I don't use the wax your using, I use a parasoy but I too found that the Eco's smoked and sooted a lot for me.

[rjdaines]

For a 3" diameter soy-based candle (CB Advanced in my case) I am using an HTP wick, either a 126 or a 1212 depending on FO load and color. I've been very happy with the HTP wicks.

[Yvelis]

Today I'm testing new wicks, I have set up HTP 105 and 126, RRD 50 and 55 and CD 14 and 16.

The other containers have been fully burned and the RRD sooted less of them all followd by HTP.

[EricofAZ]

Welcome. You seem to be well on your way with different wicks.

I've really enjoyed ECO wicks. They don't smoke or soot as much as the CD's and for a lot of reasons, they have turned out to be my best choice in soy and paraffin container candles.

I've used Ply wicks with soy. They have the best characteristic of no mushroom and no smoking, and little sooting, but they don't stand up in a container very well. The Eco's and CD's are designed to stand up in the melt pool. This is necessary for containers that tend to pool deeply.

If the smoking during the burn is too much (sooting) then maybe wick down. (Or drop below 10 percent FO) If you are talking about smoking when blown out, the best thing is to dip the wick into the melt pool to extinguish it and then pull it up again to cool for the next burn. That's fine for you and your friends. Customers (if you plan on selling) will ignore that advice so you have to deal with the problem if you plan on selling.

I also agree that mixing is not a good thing to do at first. Get to know how one wax burns and its characteristics before moving to another. I made the mistake of mixing at first. I learned that the purist approach is way better and mixing is only something that I do when I'm trying to make something that cannot be purchased.

Also, I may be the lone opinion here, but CB 135 really doesn't throw very many scents well. It has a good look to it, but there are other soys that handle FO's better. I really can't express in words how much I dislike CB135 for anything other than unscented restaurant table candles.

[Yvelis]

Ok, I will listen to you and Stella and give Xcel a new try, 100% Xcel.

My problem with that wax is that I need to use really big wicks and the HT (but I should test and cure the candle 2 weeks)

I think I will try ECO 12 and 14, RRD 50 and 55 and HTP 126

any more suggestions? maybe CD?

I don't use much FO, only 3%, I use a really strong FO that dont require more (Wick your wax)

Well, the testing continues...

and I really appreciate all help :-)

Ohh...the HTP 126 I tested in my 50% blend was way to big.

[EricofAZ]

You might want to compare wicks based on Rate of Consumption, Pool Diameter, and Flame Height.

There is no one chart that will give you the exact numbers for your wax, but there is a chart that will help you decide what wicks are similar to one another.

http://www1.stimpson.com/~stimpson/WicksUnlimited.pdf

Each manufacturer uses its own test wax and not all use the same. I think most are paraffin so upwick on soy an palm.

[Stella1952]

My problem with that wax is that I need to use really big wicks

As previously stated, soy wax, because of its viscosity, requires a larger wick size. This is normal and it is not difficult to find wicks which work very well for soy waxes, although in some areas, suppliers may not carry a wide range of wick brands. You may have to order from suppliers outside your immediate area to find some brands.

While charts can give you a range from which to choose, ROC, pool diameter and flame height data is not very reliable because most testing is based on paraffin unless otherwise stated. Different container sizes & shapes, waxes, FOs, etc. change the test data considerably.

For example, the test results that Heinz shares for the CD & CDN (Stabilo & Stabilo KST) wicks is quite different from the data I have derived from testing CDs & CDNs in my waxes. This is why they make the following statement regarding their data:

Chart Statistics - Chart statistics contributed by Heinz Verhaegh Corp. These statistics are based on accepted industry standards for molded and filled, fully refined paraffin wax candles and should be viewed as reasonable estimates for comparison purposes only. Actual results should be determined on an application-by-application basis.

According to their chart data, they don't list a wick that has a burn pool of more than 2.12 inches (CD/CDN 22), yet a CDN 14 wicks the 3" diameter mason jars I use quite well. I use a CDN 22 to single wick 4" containers, so as you can see, because the charts are based on paraffin tests, they can only be used for very general trends for wicking veggie waxes. There are differences among soy wax brands and formulas as well. I use NatureWax C3 which wicks slightly differently than NGI container waxes. Note the discussion about veggie waxes that begins on page 8 of the pdf file included in the link from the reply above as there is some good information contained in it regarding wicking veggie waxes.

The best idea is to order sample kits of each wick type that interests you so you have a good range of sizes from which to choose. HTH

[HorseScentS]

Some people really like this wick guide: http://www.candlescience.com/learning/wick-guide.php

[Stella1952]

That is a supplier's wick guide based on only the products they sell.

Edited April 3, 2011 by Stella1952

[Yvelis]

I now have tested a lot of different wicks and for me LX series is by far the best, no soot at all!!