Color blending for the inept...

[MissMori]

Does anyone know if there is such a thing as a color wheel that tells you how much of each color to blend to arrive at another color. Such as x parts blue + y parts yellow and you get a lovely xy green. What would such a thing be called and where can I get one?

[HorseScentS]

http://www.cajuncandles.com/candle-color-dye.html Scroll down & you'll see the exact number of drops to use.

[MissMori]

That's really good, headed in the right direction, but it looks like you would have to use their dyes for it to be true to color and they don't provide a color chart so that you can see what you are getting.

Thank you though for helping out.

[HorseScentS]

I just found this & it's great! http://www.candletech.com/general-information/color-formularies/

[MissMori]

Thank you! That's a keeper. I ordered the dyes from CandleWic. I think I'm going to make a votive using each color to see what they look like initially, then I can blend going from there.

[HorseScentS]

Thank you! That's a keeper. I ordered the dyes from CandleWic. I think I'm going to make a votive using each color to see what they look like initially, then I can blend going from there.

What a great idea! When I start pouring with 6006 I think I'll do that too with flower pot votves.

[Stella1952]

MissMori, I posted some links for color wheels & theory recently in the "Hot Pink" thread. Because each different brand of dye is a little different, one size doesn't fit all. My best suggestion is to study up on color theory (the way painters mix colors) then decide on a brand of dye you like. Test your color by dripping a few drops on a white surface (paper plates work well) to see if you are where you want to be with the color. Write down what you do so you can replicate your results over and over again.

One warning: if you use palm wax, it does NOT work well with the "drip" method because of the crystallization. It will appear lighter (or darker, depending on the color) because the crystals are very fine in the drip. Once you get the hang of how the crystals respond to the dye, you can write down what worked for you so you can repeat your results. HTH

[EricofAZ]

There is a freeware program called Visual Color Picker 2.6 that will give you RGB or CMYK formulas along with a suggested saturation.

RGB is easy to get from any supplier.

CMYK is another story because nobody makes Cyan and you actually have to blend your own to make that work.

[cedar_lea]

There is a freeware program called Visual Color Picker 2.6 that will give you RGB or CMYK formulas along with a suggested saturation.

RGB is easy to get from any supplier.

CMYK is another story because nobody makes Cyan and you actually have to blend your own to make that work.

Are you actually using the RGB color wheel? Because it won't work with dye. The RGB spectrum is based on light so red and green make yellow instead of brown. It's strange, but it's how moniters work so you have to know it if your in computers or lighting. The CMYK is for printing dyes so it should work, but there's alot of colors that can't be made with CMYK because they don't use a true red or blue. I'm not sure if this program is designed for dyes or not but if you can make yellow with the RGB settings it's not going to be true for not light based pigments.

There isn't going to be a guide to drops adding color because the color is affected by the color of the base item. Also there are ALOT of different greens that will react differently with all the different reds. A color is a combination of the color and the base. The amount of product will affect the colors. A drop of green added to a small batch will be alot darker than the same amout in a larger batch. If the wax itself is more whitish it will be easier to get pastel colors. If the wax is more yellowish it will be harder to do purples than oranges reds and greens.

The easiest way to mix the colors you want is to get two of each pirmary -- a warm and a cool version (lemon yellow and golden yellow, cadnium red and a more magenta red, cobalt and cyan) green a few different browns and black. Some people also find a very dark purple to be really useful in getting richer dark colors. The white would be your base. That way you can mix cools together for a brighter cool color or add the warm for a lower chroma one. Remember that your base is white so if you want the exact same color but darker = more drops, unless you've already achieved a very bright color and then you'll need to move to the black. I suggest looking at alot of color charts and value scales and realising that each color is a certain level of bright vs dull, dark vs white, and color location on the wheel. If you can tell which of those areas need adjusted than it's pretty easy to learn what you need to do to make it right.

Edited March 26, 2011 by cedar_lea
added quote so it made a little more sense

[MissMori]

Thanks for all the responses.

[Stella1952]

Thanks, cedar_lea. I agree with you: RGB & CMYK are not appropriate for mixing dyes, as you explained so well. Been using those models for graphics, printing & internet work for many years, but NEVER for mixing paint, pigment or dye. Except for VIEWING the color chips online or in print, they are worthless for actually mixing colors at home.

Candlescience shows how Reddig-glo looks when mixed into wax.

http://www.candlescience.com/color/reddigglo-dye-chips.php

From the responses, it sounds like the OP wants a chart of amounts and color chip photos to direct her in coloring. She is not looking to learn how to blend colors from scratch.

Edited March 26, 2011 by Stella1952

[HorseScentS]

I'd love to get good at mixing colors from scratch, but the dye chips look great for beginners, like me, who feel a bit overwhelmed with the initial learning curve hump.

[Georgia]

This is my favorite color mixing...scroll to the bottom

http://www.gellycandle.com/ColorChart.html

[HorseScentS]

This is my favorite color mixing...scroll to the bottom

http://www.gellycandle.com/ColorChart.html

That's awesome. But, how can you mix 2 drops per ounce (oz) of wax? That would be 32 drops per pound of wax, & that sounds like a lot more drops per pound than what I've read you can put in....confused & some of the colors use 4 drops per oz of wax, so that's 64 drops per pound....???

[MissMori]

it sounds like the OP wants a chart of amounts and color chip photos to direct her in coloring. She is not looking to learn how to blend colors from scratch.

I think I caused confusion... I am looking to learn to blend from scratch. I just switched to liquid from color chips. Some sort of chart of amounts, yes, but based on the color wheel that uses a ratio of R/B/Y.

[EricofAZ]

I can see that everyone has their thinking caps on.

RGB and CMYK are good for mixing dyes. You just have to consider the opacity of the wax. RGB is better for clear wax and CMYK for thick white wax.

RGB with some Y is also pretty interesting. Sharp has introduced an RGBY television set/monitor. Makes sense to me. Y really makes the RGB vivid.

I can also appreciate a warm and cool RGB or CMY.

There's no doubt that a pre-mixed dye from one of the suppliers that is your favorite color is the easiest way to go (or blocks or chips if that is your preference). However, the special colors that only you use beg the venture into CMYK or RGB or some possible crossover.

I think that one of the reasons why mixing tends to be difficult has to do with the dye manufacturers.

Not all the dye's are the same opacity/saturation. EVO's for example, very a lot. I have some Royal Blue EVO that takes ten times more drops than their regular blue to get a good saturation. Its like the stuff was diluted.

I have had good results though with CMYK and some RGBY colors.

Edited March 27, 2011 by EricofAZ

[EricofAZ]

Here's another little program called ColorPic

It has the unique feature of combining CMY and RGB in the same visual, hence the 6 sided image. K is a slider.

Yes, it does show that Red and Green = yellow, which is opposite of Blue.

So this app tends to open the door to intermixing CMY and RGB, though once a color is chosen, it only gives CMYK or RGB or Hex or HTML colors.

The more I think about it, the more I realize this is over analyzed. RBG and CMY are opposites. R is opposite of C, B opposite of Y, G opposite of M.

So whether you work in RGB or the opposites, CMY, or intermix, you have some good formulas to use.

Edited March 27, 2011 by EricofAZ

[EricofAZ]

I thought I'd say something about RYB color mixing.

http://www.daleroose.com/web_design/color_chart/

RYB mixed = K or black

RYB removed = W or white.

It is easier to get to some of our candle colors like purple, etc, with RYB, which is a crossover of CMY/RGB color charts.

A good RYB color chart might well be the best for our wax usage.

RYB an additive/subtractive scheme that tends to bridge both worlds and you won't find it very easily in color wheels.

Sharp didn't invent anything new. They simply went back to an old artisan scheme that is pretty much defunct in our modern computer era.

I like RYB and tend to play with it.

Edited March 27, 2011 by EricofAZ

[EricofAZ]

Ok, I hope this image clarifies a bit about the additive and subtractive nature of RGB and CMY.

The RYB scheme does not follow either and was abandoned some time ago, but Sir Isaac Newton who came up with it was surely an artist because artists tend to still use RYB with the secondary and tertiary color mixes. I really like using these for candle dye mixing. Unfortunately, it is an art rather than a science because I do not know of any calculator that you can use to select a color and get an RYB / secondary / tertiary formula. Too bad. Someone should try and write such a calculator for us dye users.

Edited March 27, 2011 by EricofAZ

[Stella1952]

The RYB scheme does not follow either and was abandoned some time ago, but Sir Isaac Newton who came up with it was surely an artist because artists tend to still use RYB with the secondary and tertiary color mixes.

Odd. RYB color theory is still taught in art classes in college. It's also taught in elementary art education in grammar school. That's because it is how artists mix color: not on a monitor or by the use of a computer - in reality, using paint, pigment, ink, dye, etc.

We can continue to argue color models til the cows come home and bore/confuse the heck out of everyone who just wants to know how to blend certain colors to make other colors, but the facts of color mixing are not going to change, regardless. Additive and subtractive processes, etc. are technical stuff that have little meaning to beginning color mixers other than to confuse them completely. Discussing other color models is fine for artists of different media, but for mixing candle dye, the artist's model, RYB, is the one that works every time and is easy to understand. The link below has a good discussion and color wheel examples of the artist's RYB color model developed by Sir Isaac Newton, best known as a physicist and mathematician.

http://www.worqx.com/color/color_wheel.htm

Unfortunately, it is an art rather than a science because I do not know of any calculator that you can use to select a color and get an RYB / secondary / tertiary formula. Too bad. Someone should try and write such a calculator for us dye users

In RYB (traditional or artist's) color theory, the amounts (assuming one is using pure primary colors) are easy to understand. One part red mixed with one part yellow equals orange. One part orange plus one part red equals red-orange, etc. Get some paint or colored ink and try it yourself. Works every time. Different dyes are made in different concentrations, so an actual calculator would have to be developed for every brand and every basic wax type (soy, paraffin, palm).

One more time - RGB is not the preferred model for mixing dye colors for candles at home. It's fine for computer color work (viewing color via a monitor) but it is relatively worthless for mixing pigments, paints, inks and dye without the use of a computer. CMYK (cyan, magenta, yellow, black) is often referred to as the Printer's color model. It's not for mixing colors for candles either. The colors in home inkjet printers are based on the CMYK model consisting of blue (cyan), red (magenta), and yellow, plus black. Everyone owning a home color printer has experienced what happens when one runs out of one of the ink colors and how it changes the color output of the printer.

Traditional color theory is based upon primary colors (defined as not being able to be made by mixing together any other colors) being mixed together to form other colors. What cedar lea wrote about using two (warm & cool) of each primary color - red, blue, yellow, plus black - to make a basic color kit for dyes is sound advice.

Primary colors, when mixed in equal proportions (1:1) with the next color on the color wheel form secondary colors. Red mixed with yellow makes orange. Blue mixed with red makes purple (violet). Yellow mixed with blue makes green. Color opposites on the color wheel (complementary colors), when mixed together 1:1, make brown (red + green, yellow + purple, blue + orange = brown). Tertiary colors (ones with two names like red-orange, green-blue, red-violet, yellow-green, etc.) are formed by mixing a primary color 1:1 with an adjacent secondary color on the color wheel.

Liquid candle dyes also come in secondary (ie. orange) and tertiary (ie. teal) colors. This makes mixing a little easier if you understand the basics above. Shades and tints are formed by adding black and white, respectively. Burgundy is a shade of red. Pink is a tint of red.

The key here is KISS. Bringing other color models into the discussion simply confuses the heck out of people who know nothing about mixing actual colors. My degree is in graphic design for offset printing. I understand CMYK color separation and printing. As a web designer, I understand RGB. As a lifelong artist, I understand how to mix colors using the traditional RYB color model. That's the one that is most applicable for mixing colors to dye candles.

Edited March 27, 2011 by Stella1952

[MissMori]

What I was originally asking about was a RYB color wheel that gave an idea of percentages or parts to use for blending colors. For me it is the most intuitive and easiest to use. I'm going to either make my own through experimenting with dyes or take a trip to the art store.

[HorseScentS]

What I was originally asking about was a RYB color wheel that gave an idea of percentages or parts to use for blending colors. For me it is the most intuitive and easiest to use. I'm going to either make my own through experimenting with dyes or take a trip to the art store.

I've seen them at the art & hobby stores, in fact my color wheel might even have that info on it.

[EricofAZ]

Knock yourself out Sherlock.

There are a ton of computer calculators in Photoshop and stand alone that do hex, cmyk, rgb, and html. I have not seen one that does RYB and you have not posted one.

When I say abandoned, I mean in the modern era with our computer generated calculators.

OF COURSE artisans still use RYB. I still color mix my oil pallet with RYB as do my siblings and ancestors.

Anyway, I'll stick to my color mixing and you all stick to your $0.10 dye chips. Have fun.

I'm out of this thread too.

Edited March 28, 2011 by EricofAZ

[cedar_lea]

This is because if you are designing colors to be displayed on a computer you have to work with RGB as the color scheme. RGB is based on the light spectrum & that's why it's a subtractive process because more light = lighter color. The calculators are for making colors appear on a computer, television, video, ect.

Because physical pigments become darker as more is added they have to be an additive process. I believe CMYK is used because it gets around the fact that colors all have different values (Yellow light and blue-violet is dark) This is REALLY important for a printer because the colors are layered not blended so you can't really add yellow on top of a true blue and get a medium value green. So the printer has to use lighter red and blue so that it can get the lighter colors through layering. Layering will not get you the same colors as a well mixed color blend. In most cases the difference won't be huge, but in some it's pretty significant.

[MissMori]

Knock yourself out Sherlock.

...

I'm out of this thread too.

Er, to whom is this directed?