Hangup?

[MissMori]

How do you define hangup? What is acceptable and when is it too much?

I've been experimenting and with the same wax, same wicks, same containers, same dye, same additives, same fragrance, all used at various levels (I'm experimenting), I get anywhere from a scant 1/32" to a generous 1/4" of wax clinging to the side of the container. Coconut wax is giving me least hangup. Soy is giving me the most hangup.

What do you do? Wick up? Add something to the wax to make it softer/more likely to melt/burn all the way to the side of the container? Let it be, that's life?

Do you really want all the wax to be melted all the way down the inside of the container? How clean is your container when you get to the bottom of the candle? Is some soot a bad thing?

[Bella Rose]

As a lover of burning candles just for pleasure.. In my past I've purchased jar/container candles - IF there is hangup, I throw them out because I was never able to enjoy the flame. This would drive me absolutely mad! I also think they look ugly with hangup.

Personally, I think any hangup is a dud. I've successfully combined pure soy wax, 6.5oz jar, dye, fo - wicked correctly. There is absolutely no hangup, all the way down to the bottom. The container was never too hot to hold during any of the burning, and the MP is always slightly more than 1/4" but never more than 1/2". The empty jar should be as clear as possible imo.

So after experiencing what I think is a bad container candle, I would never impose that upon any friends of mine.

[jennyjo]

I would agree. Anything more than a film is too much for my preference. Try wicking up and see what happens.

[Stella1952]

If a candle is wicked correctly, there should be no hangup on the glass at the end of the candle. Some residue is acceptable. With MANY containers, there is some hangup until the last half of the candle when the increased heat melts the hangup and allows the candle to "catch up," which is why one has to test candles all the way to the bitter end to see how they will perform.

I'd rather see a little hangup anytime than feel a container that's too hot to handle comfortably. Common sense indicates that one has to balance these two aspects and come down on the side of safety; however, 1/32" of hangup at the end of the candle is too much and indicates that the wicking needs to be adjusted.

The containers of my candles show no soot at the end when burned according to general candle burning guidelines (ie. don't burn a candle in a draft, trim the wick to 1/4" before each burn, etc.).

Edited March 10, 2011 by Stella1952

[chuck_35550]

My candles have about 1/2 inch of wax left in the bottom at the end of the burn. I am uncomfortable with a wick assembly that allows all the wax to melt away. Customers have never questioned why there is a bit of wax left in the bottom because I tell them that's the design of the candle. Hang up is a thin film on the wall and not a tunnel. If the wax under the wick assembly is being used; that jar is going to be red hot. There are extensive threads about properly sealing the wick assembly to protect the integrity of the candle. I get palpitations just thinking about one of my candles burning totally clean of wax.

Steve

[Stella1952]

candles have about 1/2 inch of wax left in the bottom at the end of the burn

As they should. The warnings recommended by national candle associations state that container candles should not be burned past that point for safety reasons. Some people and customers ignore this, but I'm with you on the safety issue. Of course, this is not "hangup" but rather the remainder of a candle when it has burned down. Safety interests cause many chandlers to deliberately wick their candles to leave hangup because they believe it's safer. This is not necessary. With good engineering and craftsmanship, one can make a safe candle that leaves no hangup at the end and self-extinguishes at 1/2".

[MissMori]

So, if you don't want the last 1/2" of the candle to burn... do you make it idiot proof? Pour in 1/2" wax, then add wick? Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I'm picturing 1/2" of wax under the wick tab. Is this really necessary? What about containers (glass) that have a thick base already? Like these? http://www.jarstore.com/8-oz-Libbey-Heavy-Base-Rocks_p_92.html

[Stella1952]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I'm picturing 1/2" of wax under the wick tab.

Wrong picture. Check out this link from Wicks Unlimited, whose parent company, Stimpson, makes wick tabs (wick clips, sustainer bases).

The wick tab is affixed to the bottom of the container with adhesive, to prevent the wick from wandering and to seal the wick from underneath so it can't continue sucking fuel (liquid wax) from underneath when the wax level drops below the height of the wick tab. Here's what happens when the adhesive lets go and the wick wanders toward the side of the container and doesn't self-extinguish:

(note the soot on the side of the container caused by the overheated, off-centered burn - not a good thing!)

The wick should self-extinguish at the top of the neck of the wick clip, but if the bottom of the wick tab isn't sealed, when the wax becomes liquid at the bottom, it can continue sucking wax up into the wick from the bottom, defeating the self-extinguishing property of the tab.

There should be about 1/2" of wax remaining at the bottom of the candle at the end. In the photo above, you see that the wick has continued sucking wax in a circle around it all the way to the bottom of the glass itself after the hot glue I used as an adhesive failed. For safety, 1/2" is a good height for the neck of the wick tab to self-extinguish, preventing the candle from being burned down any further. Instead of burning all the way to the end where you can see the wick tab and the glass, the candle should have self-extinguished with about 1/2" of wax remaining in the container. Sorry, but I don't have any photos of correctly burned down candles to show... HTH

Edited March 12, 2011 by Stella1952

[HorseScentS]

I think the only wick assembly that Lone Star Candle Supply sells are the safety length taller ones, like 10 mm?, that cause the flame to extinguish with 1/2" wax at the bottom. Right?

[HorseScentS]

I think the only wick assembly that Lone Star Candle Supply sells are the safety length taller ones, like 10 mm?, that cause the flame to extinguish with 1/2" wax at the bottom. Right?

Here it is:

"All of our wicks are made with a taller 10mm neck wicktab (unless otherwise noted). The taller neck helps ensure more safety because it prevents the bottom 3/8" of the candle from burning (since there's no wicking left). This is a critical safety precaution. We are the only supplier, that we know of, that uses the taller, more expensive tabs as the standard wicktab on all wick clip assemblies. We simply want to provide our customers with a higher level of safety." http://www.lonestarcandlesupply.com/candle-making/candle-wicks/

[Babyv]

Thanks for the pic Stella. This really helps.

[Stella1952]

Thanks for the pic Stella.

You're welcome, babyv. Just understand that it's a pic of what a candle ISN'T supposed to do at the end!

Keep in mind that the taller height for self-extinguishing is only as good as the adhesive sealing the bottom of the wicktab to the container and sustainer base. I use Permatex High Temp Silicon Gasket Sealer (red) to insure that the adhesive doesn't soften or let go at the high temps at the end of the candle. I have tested many types of stickums (worthless, IMHO) and hot glue commonly available (not high-temp enough in many cases - see photo above) and only the Permatex has held up to the end-of-candle high temps and kept the wicktab secured and the wick sealed during torture testing.

Edited March 13, 2011 by Stella1952

[Babyv]

You're welcome, babyv. Just understand that it's a pic of what a candle ISN'T supposed to do at the end!

Keep in mind that the taller height for self-extinguishing is only as good as the adhesive sealing the bottom of the wicktab to the container and sustainer base. I use Permatex High Temp Silicon Gasket Sealer (red) to insure that the adhesive doesn't soften or let go at the high temps at the end of the candle. I have tested many types of stickums (worthless, IMHO) and hot glue commonly available (not high-temp enough in many cases - see photo above) and only the Permatex has held up to the end-of-candle high temps and kept the wicktab secured and the wick sealed during torture testing.

@Stella - I'm still in the testing, testing and more testing phase.

I have three scents burning right now -Pink Sugar, Oakmoss & Amber and Vanilla Latte. Vanilla Latte has reached the bottom and still burning. I'm waiting to see if it will extinguish it self or keep burning.

I'm using HTP wicks and wick stickums from CS.

NOTE: I'm so loving the oakmoss and amber scent from CS.

[MissMori]

Ok, now I understand. Thank you.

[HorseScentS]

Keep in mind that the taller height for self-extinguishing is only as good as the adhesive sealing the bottom of the wicktab to the container and sustainer base. I use Permatex High Temp Silicon Gasket Sealer (red) to insure that the adhesive doesn't soften or let go at the high temps at the end of the candle. I have tested many types of stickums (worthless, IMHO) and hot glue commonly available (not high-temp enough in many cases - see photo above) and only the Permatex has held up to the end-of-candle high temps and kept the wicktab secured and the wick sealed during torture testing.

Stella: Thank you for this tip! The silicone sounds great for safety!

& I love those self-centering drop-and-pour wick assemblies that you linked to, so I called the Wicks Unlimited guy, Bruce, (who works in the lab & says we can call him anytime with tech questions), & he said that BCN carries the votive ones, but you can only get the jar-size ones from Wicks Unlimited with a minimum order of 5,000.

Here they are again: "Self Centering Wick Clips for Jars

"Wicks Unlimited's innovative new line of self centering wick-clip assemblies will now allow you to drop and pour, saving time and money, fingers and glue...with more ideas forthcoming..

"Wicks Unlimited's self centering clips for jars are available in 6.0mm length, in two hole sizes and three base diameters."

http://www.wicksunlimited.com/self_centering_jar_clips.php