Black container - soot

[EricofAZ]

So one of my testers got a production container candle as a "thank you" and reported back to me something very interesting (that I know about).

She said at about 1/4 remaining, the glass turned black and she was going to return it to me.

I asked if she extinguished the wick by blowing it out or by dipping it in the pool to drown then raising it again to cool and the was not sure, she said someone else put it out and thought it might have been blown out.

I asked how the CT was and she said it was fine.

Now, these production candles in an 8 oz glass jar do not soot during the burn, but if you blow them out, they soot like crazy. Like blowing out a match and smelling the sulfur. Since I don't wick to clean the sides of the container (meaning that they burn cool and you can pick up a container without burning yourself), there is some slight wax residue on the sides. Really, it is pretty much see through after the wax level goes down, but there is some was residue a few microns thick and it does pick up the black soot color.

I personally didn't think this was an issue at all. Given that there is still good CT, and container integrity, I told her to keep it going and ignore it.

But the point is, it bothered her. Does this happen to others? What are you doing about it? Sooner or later someone is going to blow out a candle rather than properly extinguishing the wick and I'm not sure I know how to prevent the smoking and discoloration.

Any help is appreciated. Paraffin container wax, IGI 4786. 2 1/2 inch diameter. Wick is that Yadley "large" flat braid. (I've used LX and CD sizes and been happiest with whatever Yadley has on a spool.)

Eric

Oh, let me say it happened with some FO from Snowdrift Farms that is pretty expensive (FO lavender Fields) and thinner and lighter viscosity than the FO's from the usual places. SF is local so I tend to favor them and I think their FO does throw to the last drop unlike some other companies. The only other time I have noticed the blackening is on power burns where I let the container go for 12 hours or so. Also, at the bitter end when it self extinguishes.

Edited December 14, 2010 by EricofAZ

[IwantItgreen]

Eric, I haven't used your wax or wicks so my only comment is if they are smoking only when blown out and not dipped, can you expect everyone of your customers to dip? Isn't it "natural" to 'blow' out a candle? You know and I know that dipping is best, but what about Tom, Dick & Harry? Personally I would find a system where it doesn't matter if your candle is extinguished by blowing or dipping. JMHO

Hopefully someone with more experience can help you.

[lsbennis]

If everything else is working fine with your candle then I don't see what else you can do to encourage people to dip the wick! It's just one of those things, I always tell people to trim the wicks but that doesn't mean they will so if they power burn and don't trim they run the chance of perhaps getting some soot or schrooms! That is why we test for these things to see what is acceptable and how a candle would behave with all kinds of abuse. HTH

[Candybee]

If it were me I'd keep testing more wicks. I've used Yaley candle products before and their wicks and was very dissappointed in their quality.

The residue that you are talking about is it simply residue or a thin layer of wax? If wax you should keep testing so there is no wax left on the sides as it burns down-- even a thin layer. If the wax does burn down the sides with the candle then I wouldn't worry about it as some waxes will leave a slightly greasy or cloudy looking film or residue on the glass.

Frankly I don't expect any of my customers to use a wick dipper. I have a couple of them myself but never use them. Also, when I ask a customer if they ever trim the wick they usually give me a blank stare or say it never occurred to them that they should. So I design candles that work well without use of a wick dipper or trimming because I assume the regular customer will not do any candle maintenance.

[EricofAZ]

I think there is a thin layer of wax. That's fine. I don't want the jar to overheat and you can see through the jar above the wax level no matter where it is.

I'm wondering if there is an additive in the wick that is causing it.

I've tried the LX series and I can see a stream of black soot going up from the top of the flame so that's out. I have smaller CD's and ECO's that just came in so I'll try those.

The Yadley is self trimming, no shroom problem. But I agree, most customers will just blow it out and that smoke that comes from the wick is a bit obnoxious.

[Sharon in KY]

I think there is a thin layer of wax. That's fine. I don't want the jar to overheat and you can see through the jar above the wax level no matter where it is.

I'm wondering if there is an additive in the wick that is causing it.

I've tried the LX series and I can see a stream of black soot going up from the top of the flame so that's out. I have smaller CD's and ECO's that just came in so I'll try those.

The Yadley is self trimming, no shroom problem. But I agree, most customers will just blow it out and that smoke that comes from the wick is a bit obnoxious.

Well that's good, no mushroom, it might just be a wick that smokes when blown out. Some company has one that is not suppose to smoke. I use cd's and they smoke like crazy when blown out or if the wax is really low in the jar. Not much you can do.

[EricofAZ]

Ok, so I've been testing wicks like crazy again.

Here was an interesting thread:

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85429&highlight=tension

One of my testers said she blew out the wick and liked the smoky smell. (Go figure.)

Another tester who likes Yankee said she also blows out my wicks and it is about the same as Yankee on smoke.

I did learn that the smaller the wick the less the mushroom and the less the smoke. We all know that.

Zinc core was, by and large, worse than cotton core.

I read on one site where there is a wick that has no core at all (and the claim is that without a core there is no smoking/mushroom).

I think the Eco's were better than the CD's by a very small amount. The numbered wicks, such as 36-24-18 C were better in smaller sizes.

I really want to solve this. We had a Christmas dinner at the office and lit up one of my candles. The HT was OK but when one of the guests blew it out after dinner, the smoke was very strong.

Is this why on large diameter containers folks go to double or triple wicks? Smaller and less prone to smoking?

[EricofAZ]

More testing results.

Size too large = shroom (as everyone knows).

Scaling down to a size that works for the diameter...

Zinc is the worst for the parafin IGI wax that I used.

Followed by the Yaley series

Followed by LX series

Followed by the numbered series like 44-24-18 cotton core which were pretty average.

CD series was average along with square taper series.

The best was Eco series. Very little smoke and soot when blown out. No 'shrooms.

Edited December 27, 2010 by EricofAZ