Have CP lye discount/superfatting questions (long)

[RWV]

I've been reading books and threads and I still haven't found a good description of these two terms when compared. Here's what I think each means, but I have questions about both.

Superfatting: I know it takes a specific amount of fixed oils and butters combined with lye solution to completely saponify into soap. If I wanted to superfat a CP recipe at 7% and was making a 2-pound batch, that means I would add 7% more than the total oil/butter weight required on soapcalc.net for saponification, or 2.24oz. Therefore, would I add 7% more of each oil and/or butter in my CP recipe or calculate 2.24oz of just one oil and add that to the total weight of the oils/butters?

Lye discount: I know that lye is a combination of NaOH and water, so is lye discount the same thing as water discount?

If they are the same and I have a lye discount of 10% and I'm making a 2-pound batch of soap, would I decrease the amount of NaOH AND water by 10% of the amount on soapcalc.net? And, if I decrease both of these amounts, does this basically result in a superfatted soap at 10% since I'm using 10% less of the lye solution required?

I'm not sure I understand if there's a difference between lye discount and water discount (if they are not one and the same).

I don't know enough yet, but the only reasons I can figure you would want to decrease the water only is because you are adding another liquid to replace it (i.e., goats milk, aloe vera juice, etc.) or you are simply changing your water:NaOH ratio. I've read that a 2:1 water:NaOH ratio is generally good, but again, I'm still gathering information.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Just trying to wrap my mind around everything thoroughly before taking the next step.

Thanks for your help:)

[LuminousBoutique]

lye discount and superfat are the same thing.

In the simplest of terms... All oils have a SAP level.. the amount of lye needed to convert them to soap. A lye discount of say, 5%, insures you have 5% more oils in the recipe than lye to sap them. A superfat of 5% simply reduces the lye by 5%.

So for example.. on a 100% olive oil (castile bar) 16oz of oils with no superfat you need 61.4grams lye. With a 5% superfat, you need only 58.3. Your oil amount will always stay the same, its just your lye amount that will change.

[LuminousBoutique]

ooh and water discount. Water discount is simply reducing the amount of water you use in your recipe. Soapcalc standard is 38%. I use 25 for most recipes... I use full water(38%) for recipes where the fragrance oil is known to get very hot, or cause problems in the soap (ricing, accel, overheating). Thats all water discount is... using less water to mix with your lye.

WHY use less water? Cure time, the 4-6 weeks you give your soap to cure.. is simply reducing the water in the soap. Its dehydrating the soap, essentially. The less water at the beginning, the less water in the end. It can help your soap trace faster, as well. But its not something I recommend until you have a feel for your soapmaking process. It can cause problems for you if you arent 100% confident with the process, and FAST.

Edited October 10, 2010 by LuminousBoutique

[RWV]

ooh and water discount. Water discount is simply reducing the amount of water you use in your recipe. Soapcalc standard is 38%. I use 25 for most recipes... I use full water(38%) for recipes where the fragrance oil is known to get very hot, or cause problems in the soap (ricing, accel, overheating). Thats all water discount is... using less water to mix with your lye.

WHY use less water? Cure time, the 4-6 weeks you give your soap to cure.. is simply reducing the water in the soap. Its dehydrating the soap, essentially. The less water at the beginning, the less water in the end. It can help your soap trace faster, as well. But its not something I recommend until you have a feel for your soapmaking process. It can cause problems for you if you arent 100% confident with the process, and FAST.

Thank you so much LuminousBoutique--I think I was trying to make it more difficult than it actually is.

Do you use preservatives in your CP soap? In the Soapmakers Companion, the author mentions grapefruit seed extract, but I see there are newer ones now. I thought those were only for finished products with water in them like lotions, creams, etc. What are your thoughts on preservatives in CP soap? Thank you again!

[LuminousBoutique]

I dont use them.. I just keep my oils fresh and make sure I'm not using alot of DOS friendly oils like canola, grapeseed oil, and soybean.

Regular old CP shouldnt need any preservative, really things like grapefruit seed extract just make oils have a longer shelf life. The higher your superfat the more prone you are to DOS too.. DOS is deadly orange spots and a quick search here will bring up lots of info on them.. nobody knows exactly what causes them and they arent harmful, just ugly.. but basically they can show up on any batch and some theories are spoiled oils, high superfat, humid areas, and high amounts of canola in the recipe.

I've had it happen to a few batches when I first started that were very high in canola (it was a canolive recipe from millerssoaps) and one batch that I cured in my bathroom to see what would happen in a high humidity enviroment.. half cured in there, and got DOS- half cured in my regular curing room and did not.

[LuminousBoutique]

PS the books can make things seem SO much more difficult than they really are.. best way to learn, IMO, its so watch a bunch of youtube videos/tutorials and then jump in both feet forward! It can take lots of batches to find a recipe you love, but once you do.. you'll have so much practice under your belt you'll feel like its old hat and you'll be totally confident to try new things! I didnt even try FO's for almost 10 years of soaping, nuts, right? I just stuck with what I knew for so long that I never even considered it!!

[chuck_35550]

Read "Scientific Soapmaking" by kevin M. Dunn for up to date, in-depth information from a recognized authority. Heavy reading but very eye opening. Plus, it helps you to establish a habit of testing a theory to see if it holds up. I would be cautious about using less water until you are totally sure of your recipe and the fos you use. HTH.

Steve

[RWV]

Thanks guys for all the great advice! I've had watched some youtube videos and they are very informative LuminousBoutique--I could probably watch them all day (if I had the time), and I will look into getting that book Chuck.