Cruelty Free ?

[NaturallyTru]

I just got this question from a store I am doing consignment in.

I have soy candles (100% and beeswax).

lip balm - beeswax, aloe butter, avocado oil, vitamin e

These would be cruelty free right?

[lsbennis]

Go to Leapingbunny.org you can apply for your company to have the leaping bunny logo on your products which indicates they are cruelty free. There is an application process and I'm not sure but I would guess a fee as well. I think you need to prove that none of the products you make use any ingredients that are tested on animals. You would only be able to get it for the lip balms, they do not certify candles.

[Brad Ford]

You are probably ok, but keep in mind this. When some companies say they are cruelty free or don't test on animals - they mean THEY don't do that. That does not necessarily mean the suppliers of raw materials to them don't do animal testing.

[lsbennis]

You are probably ok, but keep in mind this. When some companies say they are cruelty free or don't test on animals - they mean THEY don't do that. That does not necessarily mean the suppliers of raw materials to them don't do animal testing.

Thats very true Brad...when you apply for the Leapingbunny logo they will also check the suppliers that you get your products from.

[southern.scents]

http://www.caringconsumer.com/ has, to me, a much nicer logo and they are operated by PETA. Plus, their logo has only a $100 license fee no matter what your annual gross sales are.

[dee263]

http://www.caringconsumer.com/ has, to me, a much nicer logo and they are operated by PETA. Plus, their logo has only a $100 license fee no matter what your annual gross sales are.

And peta is who you want to be aligned with? They are a terrorist organization and they do nothing for animals. Their ultimate goal is the extinction of all animal use, including pets and livestock. Do some research here http://www.petakillsanimals.com/ or here http://www.naiaonline.org/body/articles/archives/arterror.htm In the meantime, here is a lovely quote by peta's "Humane Education" lecturer:

"Sometimes I think the only effective method of destroying speciesism would be for each uncaring human to be forced to live the life of a cow on a feedlot, or a monkey in a laboratory, or an elephant in the circus, or a bull in a rodeo, or a mink on a fur farm. Then people would be awakened from their soporific states and finally understand the horror that is inflicted on the animal kingdom by the vilest species to ever roam this planet: the human animal! Deep down, I truly hope that oppression, torture and murder return to each uncaring human tenfold! I hope that fathers accidentally shoot their sons on hunting excursions, while carnivores suffer heart attacks that kill them slowly

"Every woman ensconced in fur should endure a rape so vicious that it scars them forever. While every man entrenched in fur should suffer an anal raping so horrific that they become disemboweled. Every rodeo cowboy and matador should be gored to death, while circus abusers are trampled by elephants and mauled by tigers. And, lastly, may irony shine its esoteric head in the form of animal researchers catching debilitating diseases and painfully withering away because research dollars that could have been used to treat them was wasted on the barbaric, unscientific practice vivisection." Gary Yourofsky, PeTA Humane Education Lecturer, quoted in the University of Southern Indiana Student Newspaper, The Shield, January 24, 2008

Are these really the people who's seal of approval you want on your products?

[simplybeelightful]

And peta is who you want to be aligned with? They are a terrorist organization and they do nothing for animals. Their ultimate goal is the extinction of all animal use, including pets and livestock. Do some research here http://www.petakillsanimals.com/ or here http://www.naiaonline.org/body/articles/archives/arterror.htm In the meantime, here is a lovely quote by peta's "Humane Education" lecturer:

"Sometimes I think the only effective method of destroying speciesism would be for each uncaring human to be forced to live the life of a cow on a feedlot, or a monkey in a laboratory, or an elephant in the circus, or a bull in a rodeo, or a mink on a fur farm. Then people would be awakened from their soporific states and finally understand the horror that is inflicted on the animal kingdom by the vilest species to ever roam this planet: the human animal! Deep down, I truly hope that oppression, torture and murder return to each uncaring human tenfold! I hope that fathers accidentally shoot their sons on hunting excursions, while carnivores suffer heart attacks that kill them slowly

"Every woman ensconced in fur should endure a rape so vicious that it scars them forever. While every man entrenched in fur should suffer an anal raping so horrific that they become disemboweled. Every rodeo cowboy and matador should be gored to death, while circus abusers are trampled by elephants and mauled by tigers. And, lastly, may irony shine its esoteric head in the form of animal researchers catching debilitating diseases and painfully withering away because research dollars that could have been used to treat them was wasted on the barbaric, unscientific practice vivisection." Gary Yourofsky, PeTA Humane Education Lecturer, quoted in the University of Southern Indiana Student Newspaper, The Shield, January 24, 2008

Are these really the people who's seal of approval you want on your products?

Makes me glad I didn't send my kids to the U of Southern Indiana!

[southern.scents]

And peta is who you want to be aligned with? They are a terrorist organization and they do nothing for animals. Their ultimate goal is the extinction of all animal use, including pets and livestock. Do some research here http://www.petakillsanimals.com/ or here http://www.naiaonline.org/body/articles/archives/arterror.htm In the meantime, here is a lovely quote by peta's "Humane Education" lecturer:

"Sometimes I think the only effective method of destroying speciesism would be for each uncaring human to be forced to live the life of a cow on a feedlot, or a monkey in a laboratory, or an elephant in the circus, or a bull in a rodeo, or a mink on a fur farm. Then people would be awakened from their soporific states and finally understand the horror that is inflicted on the animal kingdom by the vilest species to ever roam this planet: the human animal! Deep down, I truly hope that oppression, torture and murder return to each uncaring human tenfold! I hope that fathers accidentally shoot their sons on hunting excursions, while carnivores suffer heart attacks that kill them slowly

"Every woman ensconced in fur should endure a rape so vicious that it scars them forever. While every man entrenched in fur should suffer an anal raping so horrific that they become disemboweled. Every rodeo cowboy and matador should be gored to death, while circus abusers are trampled by elephants and mauled by tigers. And, lastly, may irony shine its esoteric head in the form of animal researchers catching debilitating diseases and painfully withering away because research dollars that could have been used to treat them was wasted on the barbaric, unscientific practice vivisection." Gary Yourofsky, PeTA Humane Education Lecturer, quoted in the University of Southern Indiana Student Newspaper, The Shield, January 24, 2008

Are these really the people who's seal of approval you want on your products?

Whoa...I never said I supported PETA nor their agenda. I just said they had a nicer logo and that their pricing is only $100. And, the fact is, every group out there has supporters and non-supporters...no matter what the agenda or the amount of progress being made; thats just life. Take the US Government for example, you have those who think it is the greatest thing in the world and you have those who think they're the most corrupt group of individuals around. But, just because you don't support a certain group or a certain concept doesn't mean you have to immediately revert to mud-slinging.

If you wanted to search hard enough, you could pull up negative/ignorant quotes from just about every large organization there is.

Edited July 31, 2010 by southern.scents

[simplybeelightful]

True, but until people start standing up for what's right and what is wrong and then holding some of these organizations accountable for the stupid things they say and do, nothing is going to change.

I personally wouldn't associate myself with any organization with these kind of extreme opinions.

If not for your own personal principals, think about your customer's. I don't think I would buy from a company that supports PETA and, basically, if you are paying $100 for that logo, you are supporting them.

[southern.scents]

I personally wouldn't associate myself with any organization with these kind of extreme opinions.

Well, in all actuality the quote may not reflect the opinion of the organization or its supporters.

If not for your own personal principals, think about your customer's.

This was really my point all along.....just because you may have formed an opinion that portrays PETA negatively, your customers may feel otherwise.

Either way, I want to stress that I don't lean one way or another when it comes to PETA. I just haven't done enough research to justify leaning one way or another. All I've heard is what the media say and we all know how skewed modern-day media can be. People get quoted out of context, lies and false stories are published, etc, etc (not saying that this is the case of the above quote, though.)

Back on topic, NaturallyTru, I'm guessing you got your answer somewhere in this thread, lol. Do keep in mind though, you don't have to pay any company to claim or promote on your logo/website that you offer Cruetly Free products.

[NaturallyTru]

I guess I'm just in shock as to why would you test basic vegetable oils/butters and beeswax on any animals? I understanding testing of finished products and testing of certain ingredients and chemicals; but these ingredients, it baffles me.

My dog is also giving me a look that says "Oh, No you don't!"

Trudi

[dee263]

Well, in all actuality the quote may not reflect the opinion of the organization or its supporters.

~~~~Obviously it does since this came from their "Humane Education" lecturer. A person who's job it is to tour the country lecturing on behalf of peta.

This was really my point all along.....just because you may have formed an opinion that portrays PETA negatively, your customers may feel otherwise.

~~~~~So if my customers support neo-Nazis I should try to market to that? I would rather educate my customers about the dangers of supporting peta or the H$US assuming those customers really care about animals.

Either way, I want to stress that I don't lean one way or another when it comes to PETA. I just haven't done enough research to justify leaning one way or another. All I've heard is what the media say and we all know how skewed modern-day media can be. People get quoted out of context, lies and false stories are published, etc, etc (not saying that this is the case of the above quote, though.)

~~~~You suggested using a company run by peta as if it were a good thing, You must have some positive feeling toward that organization. So do the research, read the quotes that come, repeatedly, from their own people - read their own website.

Back on topic, NaturallyTru, I'm guessing you got your answer somewhere in this thread, lol. Do keep in mind though, you don't have to pay any company to claim or promote on your logo/website that you offer Cruetly Free products.

Sorry for the thread hi-jack! but, like simplybeelightful said, you have to stand up for what's right and hold organizations accountable. Most people assume peta and their H$U$ cronies actually care about animals and want to help them. Most people think their local humane society is funded by H$U$. (They're not. H$U$ doesn't run any shelters. If you want to send money, send it to your local humane society or SPCA.)

You don't need a seal of approval to be able to say that your products are cruelty free. Whether a manufacturer of your raw ingredients has used animal testing or not, you didn't test what you made on animals.

Edited August 1, 2010 by dee263
trying to make my answers separate in the quote

[southern.scents]

~~~~Obviously it does since this came from their "Humane Education" lecturer. A person who's job it is to tour the country lecturing on behalf of peta.

No, I am sorry, it does not. By your principals, you are saying that if a representative of Craftserver said that all paraffin candle makers should be tortured for polluting our nation that all members/supporters of Craftserver believe the same thing. We all know that this isn't the case. Just because one person from an organization supports a view doesn't mean everyone does. Another good example.... the President of the United States of America is pro-choice....some might even argue he is pro-abortion. But, just because he is a representative of an organization which you send money to every year does not mean that you are pro-choice or pro-abortion.

~~~~~So if my customers support neo-Nazis I should try to market to that? I would rather educate my customers about the dangers of supporting peta or the H$US assuming those customers really care about animals.

What you do is your own choice. However, I would highly recommend you end your practices of condemning other people for their beliefs....especially when you begin to generalize amongst a group of people that is several million strong.

I am not saying you should support something that most everyone knows is wrong. I am just saying, there are quite a few people out there who believe PETA is a great organization whether it is or not. Education is a great place to start....pulling quotes from media sources,immediately telling someone they are wrong in their beliefs, and calling them a "terrorist organization" is not.

~~~~You suggested using a company run by peta as if it were a good thing, You must have some positive feeling toward that organization. So do the research, read the quotes that come, repeatedly, from their own people - read their own website.

My suggestion was made as in, PETA is a widely known company. It would have been like me saying the company was run by Wal-Mart.....the name recognition is there....it hits home with consumers.

As I previously said, I have no affiliation with PETA and I ultimately have no positive or negative feeling towards the organization; I simply haven't done the research to form such an opinion. However, I DO have an opinion of people who pull quotes from media and immediately condemn a large group of people for something one person said. I don't think it is very kind. If you wanted to make your point you could have kindly said, "I'm not sure PETA is an organization I'd want to be associated with. You can find the reason why at the following links," and your point would have been much better taken as opposed to saying:

They are a terrorist organization and they do nothing for animals.

[NaturallyTru]

Ok...we get it...we all have our opinions. My question wasn't how do feel about animal cruelty and organizations associated with the cause.

Are there companies out there who test soy wax, avocado oil, aloe butter and beeswax on animals? Not finished product...the raw ingredients.

If so, how and why?

Trudi

[southern.scents]

Ok...we get it...we all have our opinions. My question wasn't how do feel about animal cruelty and organizations associated with the cause.

Are there companies out there who test soy wax, avocado oil, aloe butter and beeswax on animals? Not finished product...the raw ingredients.

If so, how and why?

Trudi

I apologize for causing such a disruption in your thread. I hope you won't hold it against me.

I wouldn't imagine soy way, avocado oil, aloe butter, or beeswax are tested on animals but that is probably something you'd have to call your supplier about and then your supplier would have to call the manufacturer (unless you buy from/know the manufacturer.) That is probably the most accurate/trustworthy way to know for sure.

[Judy, USMC]

This is the definition from the FDA - Health & Human Services: http://www.fda.gov/Cosmetics/CosmeticLabelingLabelClaims/LabelClaimsandExpirationDating/ucm2005202.htm

Since there is no legal definition, according to the site, you can claim whatever you want. You could take the $100 and get your own cute logo designed ... and it may not even cost the full $100.

[southern.scents]

Since there is no legal definition, according to the site, you can claim whatever you want. You could take the $100 and get your own cute logo designed ... and it may not even cost the full $100.

Good idea. :smiley2: I am certain you could something really nicely done for MUCH less than $100. And then you don't have to worry about supporting or not supporting any organizations!

[NaturallyTru]

Those who answered my question, thank you.

Trudi

[dee263]

Trudi,

I searched and couldn't find anything about any kind of animal testing on any of the raw ingredients that you mentioned. I also can't imagine why any of it would be tested on animals, especially since most of the butters/waxes/oils that we use are intended for incorporation into other products. Hopefully your suppliers can give you more concrete information. The only thing you might want to keep in mind is that while you'll be able to use "cruelty free" in your product description since you're not testing on animals, vegans do not use beeswax. If that becomes an issue you may have to reformulate with candellila or carnuba wax instead. Good luck with the account!

Adam,

"Terrorist" is not my label. That comes directly from the USDA. Media sources? Gary Yourofsy's quote came from an interview he did. It wasn't a sound bite cobbled together by an unscrupulous journalist. Yourofsky's quote most certainly does represent peta - it is his job to speak for them. I'll continue to "condemn" as you put it, any organization whose agenda is to legislate their beliefs. I'll continue to condemn a group who wants to put an end to my right to train, show, breed or even own my dogs, end farmer's rights to raise animals for food, end the rights of hunters and fishermen - in short end all human interaction with animals. This is the last I'll post in this thread. If you are truly interested, do some research; start with the links I posted earlier and I will be happy to discuss any and all points with you or anyone else in a OT thread.

[NaturallyTru]

Thank you Denise. I, myself, don't plan on advertising as Cruelty Free right now. The store owner only mentioned it when I asked if she wanted my lip balm along with my candles. I found another box of lip balm I had forgotten about...and thought...why not? My problem is I do not always buy the ingredients for lip balm in the same place and am unsure where they came from. I'll speak to the store owner and see how she will advertise them.

Trudi