My first M&P soap.... or did I make cheese?

[ProudMarineMom]

Hi, newbie to just about everything here, including soap. I have enjoyed reading all of the threads in all of the categories and trying not to get caught up in trying everything now. But, the M&P recipes that PA, Candybee and others have posted were way too tempting!

I ordered some Stephenson white base along with the other items needed for PA's basic goat milk recipe (sorta). Unfortunately, the supplier was of the white but did have the Shea version, which I accepted. Last night I was getting antsy to try it that I made a one pound batch that I put in a loaf pan. The order with the soap molds isn't here yet....

I unmolded it this morning, and that may be part of my problem, I didn't wait long enough for it to dry properly (did I mention I was antsy) . Anyway, it has the look and feel of the block mozzarella you get from the store. And, the FO I chose doesn't seem to go well with the ingredients. I have absolutely no basis for comparison on handmade soap to see if I'm anywhere close to how it should look/feel/smell. I use Ivory bar soap, so that is what I think of when I think of soap.

Here is my list:

1 lb Shea M&P base

1/3 cup fresh goat milk

3 Tblsp liquid soap (Dr Bronner's unscented - I like bubbles)

1 Tblsp honey (local honey from a bee farm in the area)

1/2 Tblsp Kokum Btter (Don't care for Cocoa so substituded Kokum)

1/2 Tblsp Olive Oil

1/2 Tblsp Jojoba Oil (golden)

1/2 Tblsp Aloe Butter

1/2 tsp Aqua FO from Elements.

PA's recipe also calls for Shea, but since that was in the base, I didn't add any additional

No colorant

I did the double-broiler method and pretty sure I didn't overheat the ingredients. Once the base was melted I added all the other ingredients. After that was smooth, added the FO, let it cool down to 155 degrees and poured in a lined loaf mold (it was glass, not silicone, if that makes a difference). This morning the soap was a bit slimy, felt rubbery and I don't care for the smell too much. Worked pretty good in the shower, but was the dickens to hold onto.

What exactly should the soap feel like once it has cooled and can be unmolded? The oilyness is much better since it has been sitting out, but still looks/feels like mozarella. Should I have increased the Kokum since I added the Aloe, which is soft? Would the plain white base be better? Any comments.... suggestions... hysterical laughing and pointing??!

TIA - J

　

[prairieannie]

Hiya! Any oiliness that gathers on the outside of the bars of soap will go away once it's been exposed to air for a day or two. you can wipe it off with a paper towel though if you're in a hurry to try it out!

I think you could have added a bit more fragrance to your recipe for one thing.. a half tsp probably isn't going to give it quite enough scent depending on the type you use.. what you are smelling may be just be the combination of the soap and additives.

A rubbery bar, in my opinion is typically due to whatever soap base you use. I have personally never tried the brand you used, so I can't really tell you if it's because of that for sure. When you say rubbery, do you mean it was pliable? could you bend it? LOL I've had that experience with a few different bases!

The only suggestion I have is to try adding a bit of bees wax to your batch next time. It will help change the texture of your soap and make it a little harder. For a one pound batch you could try 2 or 3 tablespoons of it. It takes awhile to melt, so make sure it gets completely liquified when you add it. I like to melt it first and then add it to the mix.

It does sometimes tend to kill lather, so adjust your liquid soap a bit too.

I think your recipe looks fine otherwise, and I'm so happy to see that you weren't a bit afraid of adding lots of stuff to your first batch!! I bet your soap was moisturizing!

Keep on working at it.. I bet you're going to have a perfect bar in no time!!

[ProudMarineMom]

Hi back! Yup, I can actually bend the soap but not really pliable. More like I could take the grater and make a nice shredded pizza topping. I did order some of the Stephenson white base from another supplier and will get it next week. I know you use the one from EBC but it doesn’t look like you can order the smaller amounts. I’m just testing to see how I like it.

Went a little light on the FO since I usually have a heavy hand. Although I like a candle to be over-powering doesn’t mean soap should be. That’s exactly what it smells like, the soap and the additives with the FO in the background. I was going for subtle, I’ll be happy to increase that!

I don’t have beeswax, will vegetable stearic acid work? Other than that and very difficult to hold onto in the shower, it did moisturize very well. Happy with how it worked just unsure about the feel of the bar. Should it feel more like the Ivory or is M&P soap smoother, not so grainy.

Thanks so much for the feedback. All of the recipes sound amazing and I’m excited to learn how to make this soap.

btw, my daughter-in-law is a HUGE Marilyn fan. I'll have to give her that quote (if she doesn't already know it).

[Faerywren]

That's an awful lot of additives for one pound of base. I usually don't add anything to my M&P, as it's not really necessary. I do add to my shaving bar which has castor oil and bentonite clay in it.

Why not do some plain and simple "cut the base, melt it, fragrance it, pour it" soap so you have a basis for comparison. That can be done in the microwave in a large Pyrex cup, too. No fiddling with a double boiler. Start with 45 seconds, then 10-20 second bursts after that, until melted. Make sure to cover with cling wrap to avoid losing moisture and keep a nice texture.

[ProudMarineMom]

Yeah, probably should have taken the simple approach to get a feel for M&P soap base. But, all of the recipes in the thread started by CandyBee just sounded so wonderful!! And, I love to cook, so not afraid to try things. The unused base does feel a bit rubbery in the package, so it might be the nature of this base.

hummm... I wonder if I let too much moisture escape? Don't think I kept it covered as good as I should. Took the approach of melting chocolate, which requires almost constant stirring. Might need to be more hands-off while on the heat. Think I'm going to try some in the microwave just to see the texture of the finished bar.

[Sharon in KY]

Yeah, probably should have taken the simple approach to get a feel for M&P soap base. But, all of the recipes in the thread started by CandyBee just sounded so wonderful!! And, I love to cook, so not afraid to try things. The unused base does feel a bit rubbery in the package, so it might be the nature of this base.

hummm... I wonder if I let too much moisture escape? Don't think I kept it covered as good as I should. Took the approach of melting chocolate, which requires almost constant stirring. Might need to be more hands-off while on the heat. Think I'm going to try some in the microwave just to see the texture of the finished bar.

I haven't tried the recipe so can't say how it should turn out. Just thinking, how about adding everything to your pot and melt first then add the M&P. Since it only takes a few minutes to melt. That way it won't be cooking all that time. Harder butters and creams first then oils when all melted add M&P followed by color? then FO. By then it should be ready to pour. I also think a flexible container/mold works better, unless it can be taken apart.

Just cut a chunk of the M&P as it comes and try it out. I don't think melting it first makes it any different. JMO

Edited July 11, 2010 by Sharon in KY

[kitchenfairy]

Not a lot of help from me, just a note on the flexibility of the soap. I had the same thing happen when I tried this and if I remember rightly, I left it sit out for a day or so to let it lose some moisture and it hardened up some. I have a new base from NG so I'll be trying it again in the future too. That is a great thing about this.. if at first you don't succeed, well I guess it just means buy more supplies and try again!

[ProudMarineMom]

I actually tried some of the pointers from PA and Faerywren above with 1/2 pound of base. Used the microwave to melt the base and made sure it was covered tight with plastic wrap. I think the consistency of the base was much better. Also, had better luck mixing everything using a wood utensil rather than silicone. Instead of using the loaf pan, I bought an inexpensive bar mold from Michaels (yup, was inpatient and didn’t want to wait for my shipment). I increased the FO, probably too much, but hey, it smells good , reduced the amount of the other ingredients for the amount of base, and reduced slightly again.

The bars look a lot better to me than my loaf mold. They were still a bit oily, but I wiped them off and set them out to dry. I’m noticing that too, Kitchenfairy. The longer the bars are exposed to air the better the look and feel. I think the base is still more flexible than I care for, so will get some beeswax as PA suggested. I know there were several suggestions in other threads to harden the soap. Please let us know how you like the base from NG. Which one was it, btw? Yup, just what I need, more supplies! :rolleyes2

Sharon, that’s not a bad idea. Work from the hard to soft ingredients then incorporate the base. I’ll give that a try as well. I think I read in one of the threads that overcooking the M&P base can result in badness. But, I’m not sold on this Shea base so far. I have some of the white and clear from Stephenson coming from a different supplier. Gotta love testing!

Is the white base from EBC their own blend or is it SFIC or Stephenson, anybody know? That appears to be a fav of everybody. But, shipping 20 lbs from the west coast to Georgia is expensive. If I can find the same brand on the east coast, that would be great.

Thanks to all of you for your suggestions. I appreciate the help.

J

[Faerywren]

I don't know about the essentials by catalina base. I use SFIC. Elements Bath and Body carries it and is here in the South, so may save you on shipping?

[kitchenfairy]

Please let us know how you like the base from NG. Which one was it, btw? Yup, just what I need, more supplies! :rolleyes2

I certainly will. I'm doing some soaping tomorrow and making some sugar scrub cubes so I'll post results. I got two pounds of the all natural goats milk and two of the all natural yogurt.

I know what you mean about more supplies... I'm cleaning out my storage closet in the guest room and I'm on my second day of organizing! Wonder who put all that stuff in my closet!

Edited July 12, 2010 by kitchenfairy
because I apparently can't remember my soap weights!

[WillowBoo]

I put a ton of additives in mine as well. Just melt the base and then add the other ingredients leaving the goat's milk for last. It will be a bit oily at first, but blot with a paper towel and it will be much better.

[soychic]

I certainly will. I'm doing some soaping tomorrow and making some sugar scrub cubes so I'll post results. I got two pounds of the all natural goats milk and two of the all natural yogurt.

I know what you mean about more supplies... I'm cleaning out my storage closet in the guest room and I'm on my second day of organizing! Wonder who put all that stuff in my closet!

I was wondering about their new natural goats milk soap too!

I was glad they had vege glycerin in it for more lather but I was sad that they put the preservative in it. I will probably try it anyway because I want a soap with a little more lather. AND they have great prices.

I can't wait to hear your results kitchen fairy :smiley2:

[ProudMarineMom]

I know what you mean about more supplies... I'm cleaning out my storage closet in the guest room and I'm on my second day of organizing! Wonder who put all that stuff in my closet!

Yeah, my supplies have pretty much invaded my office, a cabinet in the kitchen, part of the closet in the back bedroom, and DH made some more shelves for me in my pantry downstairs. What started out as a simple hobby (candles and now soap) has turned into a major addiction. Hi, my name is Jan and I am a FoHo...

I was wondering about their new natural goats milk soap too!

I was glad they had vege glycerin in it for more lather but I was sad that they put the preservative in it. I will probably try it anyway because I want a soap with a little more lather. AND they have great prices.

I can't wait to hear your results kitchen fairy :smiley2:

Soychic, may I ask why the preservative is a negative? Does it make the base behave differently or just isn't the best thing for your skin?

And a general question for everybody. Is all M&P soap very slippery in the shower? It's like trying to hold onto a greased pig. Mine goes airborne quite a bit because I'm holding the bar so tight. Oh well, if anything, it keeps my dogs entertained.

J

[kitchenfairy]

Yeah, my supplies have pretty much invaded my office, a cabinet in the kitchen, part of the closet in the back bedroom, and DH made some more shelves for me in my pantry downstairs. What started out as a simple hobby (candles and now soap) has turned into a major addiction. Hi, my name is Jan and I am a FoHo...

And a general question for everybody. Is all M&P soap very slippery in the shower? It's like trying to hold onto a greased pig. Mine goes airborne quite a bit because I'm holding the bar so tight. Oh well, if anything, it keeps my dogs entertained.

J

My stuff started out in a small cabinet and now take the entire closet of the guest room and my desk in the guest room.. well that is when they aren't creeping all over the counter in the kitchen.

I opened my FO cabinet today while cleaning and the next thing I knew DH was grabbing the camera and said "Talk about a FO-ho!" And I don't think I'm nearly as bad as some folks I've seen on here so he has NO idea!

And can I say that was quite the entertaining mental image of the dogs watching the flying soap. Mine doesn't seem to be too slippery in the tub, but I don't know why it would be that much different from yours.

Incidentally I didn't get anything poured today but I fully intend to tomorrow if it kills me! *faint*

[soychic]

Yeah, my supplies have pretty much invaded my office, a cabinet in the kitchen, part of the closet in the back bedroom, and DH made some more shelves for me in my pantry downstairs. What started out as a simple hobby (candles and now soap) has turned into a major addiction. Hi, my name is Jan and I am a FoHo...

Hi Jan,

I would have to agree. Once you start buying all of those different FO's for one thing, you start to think of different ways to use them and it just goes on & on. I started out with candles, then soap, salts, and body butter is my favorite:)))))) I was just telling my husband that he needs to start adding more shelves in my work area.

SoyChic

Soychic, may I ask why the preservative is a negative? Does it make the base behave differently or just isn't the best thing for your skin?

Well, I learned that you do not need to add preservatives to soap...so why do it. I just like to avoid them if possible. I will probably continue buying the natural goats milk from WSP to use without fragrance and preservative since it foams & lathers nicely. But if I end up liking the soap from NG, I will use it with for the soaps for your body. OR I could just try adding vegetable glycerine to the WSP soap to add more lathering qualities.

And a general question for everybody. Is all M&P soap very slippery in the shower? It's like trying to hold onto a greased pig. Mine goes airborne quite a bit because I'm holding the bar so tight. Oh well, if anything, it keeps my dogs entertained.

J

As for the slippery soap, yes I have that problem too!

[ProudMarineMom]

As for the slippery soap, yes I have that problem too!

heehee, maybe we need velcro gloves....

[Faerywren]

Adding more than approx. 2 tbls of additional oil or liquid to your melt and pour will cut down on your lather and the integrity of your soap. Almost every soap base manufacturer has those stipulations somewhere.

Vegetable glycerin is not a lather booster. It doesn't hurt to add it, I do as a medium to mix my micas and such, but it doesn't affect lather, in my experience.

Have you ever tried SFIC bases? They are plain old 100% soap. No propylene glycol or unnecessary chemicals one can't pronounce. Great, great base. Their goat's milk, shea butter, honey and olive oil bases are some I always have in stock.

[soychic]

Adding more than approx. 2 tbls of additional oil or liquid to your melt and pour will cut down on your lather and the integrity of your soap. Almost every soap base manufacturer has those stipulations somewhere.

Vegetable glycerin is not a lather booster. It doesn't hurt to add it, I do as a medium to mix my micas and such, but it doesn't affect lather, in my experience.

Have you ever tried SFIC bases? They are plain old 100% soap. No propylene glycol or unnecessary chemicals one can't pronounce. Great, great base. Their goat's milk, shea butter, honey and olive oil bases are some I always have in stock.

No I never tried SFIC bases, where is the best place to purchase them.

Thanks for the info, I thought I read somewhere that glycerin increased lather.

[Faerywren]

No I never tried SFIC bases, where is the best place to purchase them.

Thanks for the info, I thought I read somewhere that glycerin increased lather.

Depending on your location, you can find SFIC at a number of suppliers. Bramble Berry, Peak, Kentucky Candle, Elements and Southern Soapers are just a few I know of that carry it. Y'all should have got in on the co-op we just did! I don't think you'd be disappointed. They offer liquid soap and lotion, too. With simple, natural ingredients. I just love them.

[ProudMarineMom]

No I never tried SFIC bases, where is the best place to purchase them.

Thanks for the info, I thought I read somewhere that glycerin increased lather.

Soychic, I through I read the same thing about glycerin. Maybe in the thread Candybee posted about additives that people add to M&P.

Depending on your location, you can find SFIC at a number of suppliers. Bramble Berry, Peak, Kentucky Candle, Elements and Southern Soapers are just a few I know of that carry it. Y'all should have got in on the co-op we just did! I don't think you'd be disappointed. They offer liquid soap and lotion, too. With simple, natural ingredients. I just love them.

Faerywren, thanks for the recommendation on the SFIC base. I will definitely give that a try. I literally ordered my first M&P last week to try so didn't really look at the co-ops before. I keep looking at the thread now!! I ordered the bases they had from the closest suppliers just to see if I would enjoy it. And, I am interested enough to try different bases. Testing, testing and more testing!

But, after looking at Soapfreaks Major Soap Porn in the B&B gallery, I'm thinking of going back into the closet. :tiptoe: I know that is CP, but good grief she is talented and creative. I have major soap envy. My little square soap looks like a Yugo compared to a Rolls Royce. But, I gotta start somewhere, right?

[kitchenfairy]

Well initial soaping with the new NG bases turned out to be a pain in the butt. I have an email in to them to see if it's something I did or the bases themselves so I'll let you know as soon as I hear something. But both types turned into more of a marshmallow fluff consistency as I melted them and didn't truly melt all the way for me. I have it sitting on the counter till I see if I can fix it somehow.

More to come!

[ProudMarineMom]

Sure you didn't grap the stuff to make rice krispie treats?

Keep us posted. There was another thread somewhere and someone really liked the bases. Wish I could help but have zero experience. Hope you are able to figure out what the problem is. Maybe someone will jump in with a suggestion.

Edited July 14, 2010 by ProudMarineMom

[kitchenfairy]

LOL Oh that is funnier than you know because I have marshmallows and cereal sitting on my counter to make those tomorrow with DH. (I cannot believe he's 34 and NEVER made them in his life!)

[ProudMarineMom]

LOL Oh that is funnier than you know because I have marshmallows and cereal sitting on my counter to make those tomorrow with DH. (I cannot believe he's 34 and NEVER made them in his life!)

Never made them or has never had them? He is in for a treat either way. And, I think they are so much better with the real marshmallows (imho). Can you send some down this way?

Yummmmmmm rice crispie treats....

[kitchenfairy]

Never made them which I found odd since they're one of his favorite things! He said if they didn't get them at his grandmother's house, then they had store bought.

When you say real marshmallows do you mean those you make yourself? I still haven't tried making them but it's on my list to do.