jnewport Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Help. I poured 8 oz. apothocary jars today and the middle seems to be caving in. What can cause this. I used ecosoya advanced and I have never had this happen before. I just heated them with the glue gun and I'm hoping this helps. Thanks, Jeanne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 This has been frequently discussed and is a common problem. Caving in in the center is often caused by uneven cooling. Cool more slowly and evenly - on a cookie rack under a box, styrofoam cooler, in a warmed oven (turn off the heat when the candles go in), etc. The temperature of your room changes as the weather changes. This is the time of year that many folks begin experiencing difficulties with soy waxes that they never experienced before in the spring/summer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorrie Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Ditto what Stella said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewport Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 Thank you. I am giong to have to melt them all down because I poured 24 lbs of that and it is not looking good at all. My problem is that I already cut the wicks. Any tips on how to remelt the wax and hold up the wicks since the wick holders don't work this short? Thanks for any help you have on this. Jeanne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soy327 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) Good evening,I use a hot plate to melt down the advanced, my oven's lowest setting is 170 degrees. But if you can handle a few at a time I would set my oven to a reasonable degree and go for it. As for the wicks I think you need to rewick and maybe use those wicks in a smaller jar if you have one another time, problem they already have sat in the fragrance in the 1st jars. I did remelt one last night and let it cool after taking it off the hot plate, it had a sinkhole by the wick when it cooled (it probably got to 165 degrees). I put my heat gun to good use and poked with a kabob skewer(thank god for my kabob skewer) an then melted it down slowly until all the wax was even. When I got home tonight it looked fine, but I am just testing a larger wood wick in it. It's not for sale.Good Luck,Linda:rolleyes2Actually Jeanne after thinking about this an rereading the situation. Poke those buggers and take your heat gun to em, try just a couple 1st before you melt them down. Edited October 23, 2009 by soy327 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewport Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 To late. They are in the oven. Wish me luck. I'll let you know how they come out. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soy327 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Please let me know how it goes. Been there done that.Linda:laugh2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) 24 lbs of that and it is not looking good at all. My problem is that I already cut the wicks. Any tips on how to remelt the wax and hold up the wicks since the wick holders don't work this short?Holy crap, Batman!!! You sure did pour a LOT of those... I never cut wicks unless I am SURE I don't need to fix anything... learned the hard way... I wish I had some suggestion for ya, but short wicks are a b*tch to keep straight... especially 24 lbs. worth...I think a heatgun might have been the way to go, but too late for that... I don't think I'd have remelted because of cave-ins... easier to just remelt the tops.Let us know how things went & I hope you don't run screamin' nekkid down the street tryin' to keep those wicks straight... *faint* Edited October 23, 2009 by Stella1952 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewport Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 Well, I did it but I don't think it was worth the time and effort. I did learn the hard way not to cut the wicks until I'm sure they are good also. They still have some wet spots and also the tops are frosting alot. I think it's the brown dye. I think I will try to keep the colors on the light side sine the dark dyes seem harder? Does that make sense? I am trying to build up an inventory so I can start selling but it takes a long time and ALOT of patience (ha ha). Thank you all for you knowledge and support. I'm learning alot from all of you. Jeanne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck_35550 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I would scoop those out into a presto and start all over. Clean the jars, re-wick and place your jars far enough apart that they don't affect another candles cooling rate. You might try adding some coconut oil and make sure that your fo is in ok shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewport Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 I might just do that. I have a question. Is it normal when you pour the wax to see tiny bubbles as you're pouring? If not, what do I do to stop it? Could that be part of the problem? Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 I think it's the brown dye. I think I will try to keep the colors on the light side sine the dark dyes seem harder?*I can't speak for ALL browns, but the brown liquid dye that I use has a strong tendency toward frosting. The more dye used, the more potential for frosting. Soy is very picky... it hates temperature changes and only "likes" a narrow range of melt/pour temps. It hates many FOs - the more used, the worse the frosting becomes. It hates dye, especially reds, which includes browns & purples by default. Having said that, a close to perfect soy candle would need to be melted, poured and stored at specific temps. It would not be dyed and only fragranced with some EOs. But that's not very "user-friendly," so we jump through the hoops as best we can: use additives & techniques to tame it somewhat; use very little dye (pastel colors - the wax is opaque white to begin with...); use as little FO as needed to get the job done.Is it normal when you pour the wax to see tiny bubbles as you're pouring?Well, how "tiny" is tiny? When I pour, the wax is clear (dyed, but clear). It is normal to see a few bubbles, but not a lot of them... It shouldn't resemble champagne! When pouring cooler, the wax becomes slightly more opaque and "bubbly"; when pouring really cool, the wax is opaque, thick and slushy - easy to miss tiny and even large bubbles...If not, what do I do to stop it?The soy wax I use has an ideal temperature range where bubbles are most likely to appear (your wax may be different). My thermometer is my best friend. I melt past this point and pour hotter than where the bubbles occurred. Stirring gently and frequently helps to keep the wax from stratifying or developing stagnant areas where bubbles can cluster and fail to break. For C3, I heat to 195°-200°F; add wax to the pour pot containing FO & dye (premixed and prewarmed when the air temp is cold); stir constantly and pour at 165°F - not cooler than 160°F. Could that be part of the problem?If the "problem" you are referring to is "the middle seems to be caving in," I already put in my 2¢ worth on that issue. Without photos, the mental image I have may be quite different from the reality at which you are staring, but temperature control is extremely important in pouring pleasing, non-carbonated soy candles. OR you could simply advertise them as "Pure 100% natural carbonation"...:laugh2::laugh2:heated them with the glue gunI'm hoping you meant the heat gun.... A glue gun is entirely inadequate for heating tops of candles.I poured 24 lbs...I am trying to build up an inventory so I can start sellingIn two words: SLOW DOWN.While I can understand your wanting to build up an inventory, until you get your candlemaking procedures to a point where you have dialed in what works for you, and can make reliably acceptable candles, pouring 24 pounds is NOT something I would recommend... Whatcha gonna do if all 24 pounds starts frosting tomorrow? *faint*I suggest making smaller batches - 1-3 lbs max - in a variety of colors and FOs and take good notes. You will find that certain FOs create problems for you - either with frosting or with hot throw. You will find that certain colors give you fits in nearly any FO combo or only when used with certain FOs. Certain combinations work better in larger candles than they do in smaller ones and vice versa. Some combos will tolerate being overheated from a powerburn; others will layer and frost like it's November! Thoroughly testing each FO/color/container/wick combo is very time consuming. I run candles through a regulated testing regime, then I burn a test candle (of each combo) like a fool (powerburn). Sometimes I am sure I have everything all figured out UNTIL I burn the candle like an average customerfromhell would - and my "perfect" candle doesn't cut the mustard! You begin to see why you said "24 pounds" and I felt dizzy... *faint* They still have some wet spots and also the tops are frosting alotWet spots are not something that ruins the day of many chandlers. With few exceptions, they are a fact of life because of many factors: having a CLEAN surface to which the wax can uniformly adhere (prewash the containers with Dawn or PArson's Sudsy Ammonia, rinse in HOT water, air-dry and store upside down until used and NEVER touch the interior of the container); having a wax that is slightly sticky AND slightly elastic (two things which soy generally isn't without additives) OR using a wax that contracts slightly and evenly so that NONE of the wax is adhered to the glass - NOT a soft, creamy type of soy candle, for sure; keeping the room/storage temperature constant so that the glass and wax do not contract from one another (glass & wax contract and expand at different rates, thus separation & wet spots). The thickness of the container factors in... Wet spots give people fits in cooler weather because of the contraction cooler temperatures cause... Look at candles in stores... you will see that especially during the winter, wet spots are the rule rather than the exception. A candle's performance is not affected in any way by wet spots. This is strictly a cosmetic issue and (arguably) not even the most objectionable one (frosting being more objectionable IMHO)... One solution is to pour into frosted containers so that if wet spots develop, they are more difficult to see. The best solution, however, is to realize that this is a common issue that in no way impacts the performance of the candle. If ya can't live with it, you will have test a LOT to find the perfect combination that has the least tendency toward wet spots.The top frosting may be happening because of the dye; if so, it should appear not only on the tops, but along the sides and bottom of the candle, too. If the frosting is ONLY on the top, I have to think this is because the top was hotter than the rest of the candle as it was poured and cooled. When remelting candles, it's important to give each one a stir or two to ensure that a stratified layer cannot form at the top (or anywhere) of the candle. HTH * all replies are based on experience with NatureWax C3, EZSoy (GB415) & Ecosoya PB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewport Posted October 24, 2009 Author Share Posted October 24, 2009 Wow. That was alot of info and I thank you for that. I have done months of testing and went crazy with that also. The wicks were really touch. The only reason I was doing 24 lbs was because I have 5 different containers and I was doing 12 of each container for each scent. I will slow it down and stay away from the dark colors. Stella, I wish you lived by me, I'd pay you to teach me all of your insite. Thank you again. Jeanne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soy327 Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 WOW WOW WOW I agree with you Jeanne, How far is it to Stella's house?:tiptoe::tiptoe::tiptoe: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 (edited) I'd pay you to teach me all of your insite. Yeah, but then you'd just be broke and as confused as me! *faint*:laugh2:There is so much to learn about working with veggie waxes. I'm always looking for ways to make the candles mo' better and more stable... I TRY to organize my "experimental testing" between making what works well for me so far... unfortunately, I spend too much time doing things the same ol' way and not enough doing more creative things... I've been wanting to return to making hurricanes for some time, but never get that "round tuit" 'cause there is too much production work to accomplish...:undecided Edited October 24, 2009 by Stella1952 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewport Posted October 24, 2009 Author Share Posted October 24, 2009 Well, if you ever decide to run an online course, let me know . Thanks again, Jeanne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soy327 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Ditto what she said:yay::yay::yay::laugh2::laugh2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewport Posted October 25, 2009 Author Share Posted October 25, 2009 Sounds like you could make some money here Stella Let us know and thanks again for your help. Jeanne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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