Flickering Flames

[WillowBoo]

Hello...new to this. I believe I may just be ridiculous about the flickering flames in my attempted candles, but need some opinions. Tried 4627, 4630 and CB Adv., Did them seperate, mixed them together, did everything! Used all kinds of wicks -containers are 16 oz wide mouth masons and 8 oz jelly jars

Switched now to C3 from another supplier. At which point in the jar is at least some flickering acceptable? FO's at 1 oz. per lb.

Thanks!

[Stella1952]

Some flickering does occur at times... flames WILL do that occasionally! But if it is a constant thing that starts to resemble a strobe light, there's something amiss.

You said you are using NatureWax C3 (are you using any additives?) in a 16 oz. widemouth jar and 8 oz. jelly jars with 1 oz. of FO (what scent from what supplier?) per pound. What wicks are you using - type and size? What procedure do you follow to test the candles?

[WillowBoo]

I've been using scents from Peak. The wicks I've tried are rrds, lxs, zinc -both A&P and FT, CDs, and now I'm back to ecos. THought I may order some of those CSN ones for Palm...worth a shot! They are flickering less but don't seem to throw the scent as much. Right now they are wiggling a bit, but usually it looks like they're in a wind storm. Using the C-3 with probably a little less than the 1 oz to 1 lb/ Not exactly sure what size the ecos are as I believe Lone Star mislabed them in their sample pack.

THey are probably 12 or 14. Any of the smaller ones - the flames are really small.

THank you.

[WillowBoo]

Using no additives - should I?

[ah-soy]

Are they flickering from the first burn or only they are down into the jar? Most flames will 'dance' some as the burn further into the jar due to less oxygen/airflow.

Also, are you sure you a not burning in a drafty spot?

[Stella1952]

I use USA with NatureWax C3 to smooth the texture, reduce frosting and allow the wax to hold a little more FO (the load for C3 is 5% w/o additives; I use 1 oz. pp).

I like CDNs for C3 - I generally use a CDN 12-14 for the widemouth canning jars. The JJs are a little trickier - a CDN 8 or 10 usually works for them. The jars that are taller than they are wide can get a little starved for O2 toward the bottom - that's why I like the 8 oz. widemouth canning jars better than the JJs or the 16 oz. widemouths.

The CSNs might work very well - give 'em a try.

Are you burning the candles in a draft-free location? Is there any chance that moisture is getting into your wax (like from a double boiler, etc.)?

Good luck!!

[topofmurrayhill]

Any time a candle flame is enclosed all around with an opening at the top, it will want to flicker. Even the flame of a pillar will start to jump around if it burns down into the candle and has a tall shell of solid wax around it. So, some flickering is inevitable. All you can do is try to minimize it, because it can be annoying and generate soot.

Flickering will vary with the size and shape of the container and other considerations. The biggest factor though is how fast the candle is burning, so whatever you can do to keep the flame size down is very helpful. That generally means using the smallest wick size that burns well and doesn't leave an unreasonable amount of wax on the glass once the candle burns to the bottom. You also will want to make sure the wick is trimmed to 1/4" before each burn. Apart from that you can try different waxes and different amounts of fragrance oil (the FO can affect the burn rate and the way the wax melts).

No candle will burn well for an indefinite period of time, so you should have reasonable expectations. Usually the burn is nice when you first light it and it should stay nice for a reasonable period of time. However, the flame will often get larger and the candle will get hotter the longer it remains lit. Most fragranced container candles can't burn all day or many hours on end without developing some flickering or mushrooming or sooting.

[WillowBoo]

Thanks for all the info! I don't have any drafts other than the usual once in a while. The flame is straight as an arrow for about an hour then it starts.... At first I thought there was less flicker when I stripped the wick of wax, (maybe I'll look at that again). I'm going to order some CDN and CSN to see if maybe they will work. Then, I'm going to try different containers. I've invested so much into different waxes. I keep fixing the tops so much on my tester candles that my husband said, "If you ever do sell a candle, you'll need to throw in a heat gun with it."

I give all the veteran candle makers a ton of credit! I'm running out of stamina!

THANKS!

[WillowBoo]

Oh -I did start using a presto kettle when I read somewhere that moisture might be getting into the wax. THere was no difference though.

[chuck_35550]

Try a slab of TN 70/30 (clarus wax) http://tennesseecandlesupplies.com and start with a straight sided jelly jar or tumbler. I pour at 180 degrees, into warmed and clean jars, using 1 ounce of fo per pound and mostly cd wicks but have used LX and zincs for other containers. Place in a box and let cool slowly. I don't color my candles anymore but used liquid dye and got creamy pastel colors. I have tried every combination and always come back to this wax. It has a great ht and ct without curing and will take up to 9% fo load.

HTH

[topofmurrayhill]

I think you may be on a wild goose chase trying different wick types. They all have flames, and flames in a jar want to flicker. You've tried a number of different types and all the others will burn more or less similarly to something you've already tried.

What matters more is the size of the wick. Whatever wax you may be using, step one if you get too much flickering with a particular wick size is to try wicking down.

You've also been trying different waxes, but I'm not convinced you took your best shot at finding the best wick size for each one before moving on to a different wick or a different wax.

[WillowBoo]

Thanks Chuck for the info. I will definately save that info for "what will I do next". Top of Murray Hill - you are completely accurate with your assesment! The problem is time and impatience. I haven't completely given up on the 4627 and 4630 - they smell so good, but the slime left behind (and the flickering) is what directed me to trying the soy. I have another business (completely unrelated to candles) and I think I will put everything away for a few days and get back to it after Easter....

THANKS!

[WillowBoo]

Well, I couldn't wait until after Easter....I believe the flickering was caused (mostly), by the way I was wicking the testers! Instead of pushing the wick down far into the candle, I was using approximately 2" pieces. Even though the wick wasn't moving, it needed to be anchored more substantially. By pushing the wick down to the bottom of the candle, the flickering (strobe light effect), has diminished, at least for now!

[Stella1952]

Short cuts when testing take ya the LONG way around, KWIM?

Glad you discovered what was causing your issue.

[WillowBoo]

I think the reason I started doing that was from the frustration when testing the 4627 & 4630 and the slime on the walls. No matter what wick I used, (even with a decent melt pool otherwise), I kept changing the wick. I didn't want to use up all of my samples! The waiting a week for things to come in the mail is a killer!

I started mixing my c-3 with my 4627 - 60/40 in a jelly jar, using HTP 83. It seems to be working well. The c-3 is helping with the residue and the 4627 is enhancing the scent. I was going to order the USA but I think I will try this first. Then I am going to attempt the dreaded mason jar...

Pre-mixing the 2 waxes together, letting them cool and then heating them up again, also seems to tame the beast.