bugtussle Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Please see my post about chalky, crumbly soaphttp://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79554 cp soap Well, see the piece in bottom picture lying flat, I used it yesterday in the bath and it burned the heck out of me. Got out of tub and my side from waist to shoulder was red and burning. Grabbed some lotion and put some on, no help. Really burning, so got some vinegar and rubbed all over red blotches. Quit burning in 15 minutes and felt better. Someone has suggested that ash could/might burn. The soap was chalky, crumbly and had a lot of ash. I know it had something to do with lye because I have been burned/irritated by raw soap when I'm pouring/swirling in a log. In my original post, I knew the soap was different. It was a small batch and it never gelled. Has anyone had any experience with irritating/burning soap? Thank goodness we always test soap on ourselves before we sell. TIA Carole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CareBear Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 did you tongue test it for zap? chalky screams available lye. I think I read that it was really cold when you made it so it may never have actually finished? If you still have redness rub on some unrefined shea - it works wonders on lye burns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugtussle Posted February 7, 2009 Author Share Posted February 7, 2009 Thks, Carebear. No zap on tongue test, but I don't think it saponified. Wierd! Carole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meridith Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 No zap and it still got you? Yikes! That's scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surf girl Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 I am surprised that the cold alone would do this, since some folks soap at room temperature, put their molds in the fridge or freezer, etc.I get ash from time to time, and it's not really "crumbly" or "chalky", but more "ashy" i.e. soft like a layer of, well, ash. FWIW, the one time I got something crumbly in the soap (a few blobs in the middle), the crumbly areas zapped for a few days, then didn't. The rest of the soap in that batch was OK (i.e. since it was just for me, I dug out the blobs and used the soap, and it was not irritating).I'm impressed that there was no zap, and yet the soap burned. Yikes!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekeeper_sd Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Did your soap trace before you put it in the mold? I used a LOT of chalky soap when I first started out. I found out I was not letting it trace before molding it. Never had any burn me though. I would suggest letting it cure a little longer and it should be okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorrie Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 From what you are describing to me it sounds that your soap is lye heavy or you have lye pockets in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugtussle Posted February 8, 2009 Author Share Posted February 8, 2009 Thks for all the responses. I will check them all out. I have a feeling it was a combo of cold, not enough trace; the edges and corners just did not saponify There was definitely something strange about those 2 batches. I will soap these 2 FOs again and make sure the FO is ok. I guess you just have to be careful when the soap looks that different. Thks, Carole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Chick Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 That is good to know in order to know what to watch out for. I have never had a lye heavy batch, but many ashy ones. The best way to describe the ash is a layer of talcum powder looking stuff on the surface of the finished soap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I responded in your original thread and have mentioned on other occasions that a recipe with a significant percentage of hard oils should be gelled to avoid this chalky thing. People have often not believed it, but it sounds more and more like you had the same experience I did.The main example of how I encountered this was with a hard recipe that I intentionally left uninsulated in a fairly cool place overnight. The inside of the soap was perfectly normal but the outside edges of the log were hard and brittle.I posted that batch in the gallery and titled it I've discovered the recipe for chalk. Most of the brittle part is cut off in the photo but you can still see the broken edges and corners.The soap had no zap. I was going to use it as a hand soap in the workshop but I did try a bar in the shower. It didn't burn me per se and seemed at first to be fine, but after a few days my skin started to get really itchy.If you have a hard recipe and it's cold, the oils are liable to congeal so the lye solution can't get at them properly. If everything is well emulsified when you start, you may not see any obvious separation of anything, but the results can be wonky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugtussle Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 Top, you are absolutely correct!!I searched this board for chalky & nothing came up. Should have searched for chalk.Yesterday, I took a center bar (of the problem batch) to the bath. ( I have courage, YES?) Even left a little soap unrinsed on my side. NO problems! Whether is was leftover lye or just irritants (in the end bar) that burned me originally, I know my customers trust my soap and I don't want them to go through that experience. The bad batch was just as you described - chalky, brittle, ashey. It did crunch when I beveled it.Yesterday, we soaped the same batch, same recipe in Jeff's new mold. (Yea, Jeff) We covered it good. I just went & checked it. It looks GREAT! No ash & when I cut it, I'm sure it gelled all the way through. Big difference in temp here, it's warm & muggy. We let it go to med trace before we poured.Conclusion: With my recipe, I have to bring it to med trace, I have to cover & insulate. If we ever see chalky, ashey, brittle ends & sides, BEWARE!! :rolleyes2 :rolleyes2 :rolleyes2 Thks to all, Carole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CareBear Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 To test the theory (and cause I was testing a friend's method) I took my tried and true HIGH solids recipe and didn't let it gel. Well I tried not to let it gel but got a partial.The center of the log (where it gelled) was BEAUTIFUL. The edges and corners where the gel didn't reach... THICK CHALKY ASH and zappy - just a little zap but most definately there.So yup, if you are soaping high solids - gel it ladies - gel it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 It did crunch when I beveled it.Serious crunching with mine too when cutting and beveling the outside part.You normally get ash when lye reacts with the air instead of with the oils. Mostly we think of it as a thin film on top of the soap, which you can get with any batch that saponifies slowly and/or separates slightly. It can be caused by any combination of soft recipe, low temp, thin trace, etc. But when you're dealing with cold, congealing hard oils, it can permeate the soap - and it's pretty alkaline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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