Suggestions on a request!

[cybersix]

Hi everyone, I've been contacted by a big company. They started with some wellness centers or spa, then now they have their own brand and sell home decor items and some scented spray.

They want me to make a line of candles, using their fragrance.

They want "all natural" so asked samples of palm wax pillars.

They'd prefer to make candles in their containers, so in few days they'll send me some to test.

But they also loved my palm pillars.

The question is: what do you charge in such cases? I'd buy wax and wicks.

They give me FO and containers.

How should I manage this. They asked if I have a minimum for orders, and I usually have, just don't know if I should treat this as a common wholesale customer.

Any suggestion is really appreciated.

TIA

[OverSoyed]

If it's high end, I'd figure my time and costs, and go from there.... but I'd imagine you could do very well.

Maybe ask what they plan to retail them for? What they are spending on their end for supplies (FO, containers)

Good Luck!

[SliverOfWax]

If it's FO, it's not all natural. That alone tells me they don't know what they're doing.

Figuring your cost would really be no different than if you were springing for everything. Just deduct the cost of what they provide. Be sure to allow your costs for testing, both in time and material. I would have 2 separate pricing systems. One for testing, and one for production.

It sounds like a nightmare to me. I would let them pick the container but not the oils. But that's just me.

[OverSoyed]

Its no different than KFC (vomits) getting all their 11 herbs and spices from different places and having them mixed by one company. She/he is acting as the manufacturer.

But I have to agree with the FO... didn't click the first time I read that. Unless it's essential oils? Then that would be natural, no? It's not an artificial product.

[cybersix]

If it's FO, it's not all natural. That alone tells me they don't know what they're doing.

Figuring your cost would really be no different than if you were springing for everything. Just deduct the cost of what they provide. Be sure to allow your costs for testing, both in time and material. I would have 2 separate pricing systems. One for testing, and one for production.

It sounds like a nightmare to me. I would let them pick the container but not the oils. But that's just me.

Sliver, don't even get me started about the all natural and such.. they believe that soy and palm dont' produce soot. I explained a bit about a "combustion" when you burn something there is alwasy something else released in the air..well, they want palm wax and they'll have it.

They have their own signature fragrance so candles must reflect this. I told them to check with the manufacturer if this fragrance can be used with candles and they told me it can. I have to test and they know I have to.

It's the first time for me, but I'm a positive person... won't think about the nightmare until I'll be trapped in LOL

[cybersix]

If it's high end, I'd figure my time and costs, and go from there.... but I'd imagine you could do very well.

Maybe ask what they plan to retail them for? What they are spending on their end for supplies (FO, containers)

Good Luck!

Yes they sure are a high end company.

I'll try to keep good prices but a bit higher than my usual.

[cybersix]

Its no different than KFC (vomits) getting all their 11 herbs and spices from different places and having them mixed by one company. She/he is acting as the manufacturer.

But I have to agree with the FO... didn't click the first time I read that. Unless it's essential oils? Then that would be natural, no? It's not an artificial product.

oh I don't know for now what fragrance is.. EO or FO. I'm going to ask them.

[SliverOfWax]

Whatever their signature scent is, I would have it duped by a company who manufacturers fragrance oil specifically for candles. I would never make candles with fragrance from places unknown.

Of course that would be included in my initial testing costs.

Good luck is all I can say.

[HeavenScentU]

You have to figure up your cost to make one candle. Then double it and that would be your wholesale cost that you would charge the company. I always charge by the case. If they are going to supply the jars and scent I don't charge for that.

[cybersix]

Whatever their signature scent is, I would have it duped by a company who manufacturers fragrance oil specifically for candles. I would never make candles with fragrance from places unknown.

Of course that would be included in my initial testing costs.

Good luck is all I can say.

sliver, I told them to ask to the manufacturer. They did, and the manufacturer told them that the oil can be used in candles.

Anyway, if I should find that the entire candle ignite when I light it, I will tell them. and surely not produce an entire line of fire candles.

[cybersix]

You have to figure up your cost to make one candle. Then double it and that would be your wholesale cost that you would charge the company. I always charge by the case. If they are going to supply the jars and scent I don't charge for that.

so basically it's the same of other wholesale customers, letting alone the test phase.

thanks

[OverSoyed]

They seem to have a large operation going... are you able to produce a large enough volume for them? I'm not sure how many cases they are asking of you... but it'd be a thought if I was doing it.

One day they ask for say 10 cases (which isn't super difficult)... then a week later... "Hey, we need 100,000 by next week!

Yes they sure are a high end company.

this is the site www.culti.it.

I'll try to keep good prices but a bit higher than my usual.

[cybersix]

They seem to have a large operation going... are you able to produce a large enough volume for them? I'm not sure how many cases they are asking of you... but it'd be a thought if I was doing it.

One day they ask for say 10 cases (which isn't super difficult)... then a week later... "Hey, we need 100,000 by next week!

LOL

I already told them that I'm an artisan and I work alone so i don't have the possibility to pour lots of candles in few days.

we're still in the deciding phase. I'll write them an email with my conditions, since they asked, and I will write in there everything that I need to say.

thanks

[OverSoyed]

Good Luck! Keep us informed! It is always nice to hear of everyone else's success stories! It gives us hope!

LOL

I already told them that I'm an artisan and I work alone so i don't have the possibility to pour lots of candles in few days.

we're still in the deciding phase. I'll write them an email with my conditions, since they asked, and I will write in there everything that I need to say.

thanks

[sockmonkey]

In the real world, few businesses would offer a quote until they knew what they would be dealing with--in this case, you need to see the container to know how many ounces of wax you will be using. Not only that, but you need to know how you will pack them once they are poured. Sometimes empty containers can be stacked inside of each other to be shipped, but once they're filled with wax you can't do that anymore so protective packaging could become an issue and an expense to factor in the cost.

When creating a custom product it's not uncommon to require a larger quantity or a higher dollar amount per unit than you would normally charge for a minimum because of the different set up involved.

Since you are creating a custom product for them, you should have an agreement in writing that calls for you to be paid for your time and labor as well as the wax and wicks that you use in testing even if they decide not to place an order. That will require you to keep a record of your time as well as expenses in the testing stage.

[cybersix]

Sockmonkey,

I didn't give a quote yet, I told them I need to see containers and test the fragrance.

What i can't figure is the test phase setup. time, money and material.

Now I'm at work (my *real* work LOL) but when I'll have a bit of time I'll sit down and write everything. Then tell them too.

They also asked about packaging but it's one of the thing that we have to figure out, depending on what they'd like.

Thanks

ps: got your PM, thanks

[sockmonkey]

I'm not asking for numbers here, just posing questions for you to think about--but how do you ordinarily account for manufacturing your candles?

How many hours do you normally spend testing candles? What ever is the norm for you, I would bump it up by at least half, and maybe twice as much since you will be dealing with an oil you are unfamiliar with.

[taylorfiremedic]

Way to go!!

Make a ton of cashola!!!

You know best how to run your business. Have fun!

Lorna

[fmsojka]

Congratulations! Your product must be awesome, for a company like that to want you to make them candles.

I have done what I call volume manufacturing for a large company. If there is enough volume, the price for me goes way down. Volume is such a good deal, it takes me as long to do one or two candles as a bunch, same as with bath products. I would much rather have a check for a few thousand instead of working my b*tt off for a few bucks. The volume stuff helps me keep in business to sell the smaller orders.

If the company is supplying the packaging, or whatever, I subtract that from my cost. I wouldn't care if the company wanted to furnish the FO. And as you said, lots of testing. As would be the case if they requested a special fragrance and you bought it. Although I haven't had someone furnish the fragrance. I have had them furnish the packaging, if I couldn't find what they wanted. I figure I am the manufacturer. I know the other day we poured a bunch of candles for a fundraiser, then I had some folks want a candle of this scent, then a candle of that scent. took me about as long to make the few candles as to pour the fundraiser. Same with bath products, we make up custom lotions. Mixing up one lotion is a pain, takes a bunch of my time as well as waiting on the customer. (And waiting for them to make up their mind:) Lots more efficient to crank out a bunch of the same scent. Know what I mean? So if you don't make as much per item, you spend a bunch of less time to make it. (After you get done testing, which may take up some time up front).

I say go for it. Even if the account doesn't turn out exactly as I had hoped, I always learn something. And the volume helps pay the bills.

[cybersix]

thanks to everyone.

I'm thinking to ask some $$ in advance for testing. my wax would be "wasted" along the test phase.

Then if they decide to do the work I'll figure out cost and ask at least the half in advance.

I'm thinking also to ask to make an appointment with the style manager so we can talk and decide for details.

How does it sound?

[islandgirl]

That is a good idea..

Ask for upfront testing money.

Make up a proposal of all the costs that it will take for you to do the extensive testing to provide them with the quality product they are accustomed to.

Who's to say, after all this testing, they decide not to use you.

Then you would be out all the time and money

Not that they would do that, but business is business..

Cover your own *ss.

Best of Luck and I hope that it all works out for you!!! WTG!!!

[Sharon in KY]

Maybe you could have them buy your wax for you too. You can be the designer and manufacturer. Sounds like a great opportunity. Maybe wait till you make some samples before you price them. Might be easy or might be hard or time consuming . I would love to work with designer FO's. How many so called candle FO have you bought from the suppliers that have been total duds? Can't be any worse.

[bells4shells]

How exciting! I can't even imagine your jaw when they got in contact with you about this possible partnership.

The site they have looks pretty nifty. Very upscale indeed! Sounds like you have a pretty good idea about how you'll handle it. Good luck! I hope you get it.

[cybersix]

thanks everyone.

I though about having wax bought for me, still don't know about it.

If I can have some container wax samples I'll show them, but starting containers was my intention too, so I cuold buy wax and use it for my production too.

The most important things is to know how many candles they want and in what amount of time. I'm small, and have a 8 hours job. And my plan to move to the new house where I'll have my own work place has been delayed, so I'm still working in the kitchen. For a project like this I could arrange my basement so I won't have tens of candles around the house.

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions!

[ubure]

Hi Sabrina,

this is great!! Congrats to you!

I'm doing the same for a few companies - making candles etc. with their own perfume - and so far I haven't had a single scent that didn't work great. But you haven't done containers so far, have you? It might be more testing for you because of this (I had the same problem with my pillars when I was doing only containers) but I'm sure you can do it!

Why did they ask you about the minimum oder amount? If they are big won't they buy at leat a few hundreds of candles?

Concerning the costs: if you make large amounts (I'm not talking about some hundred candles, of course) you certainly won't be able to charge your normal "two-times-my-costs". The more they are willing to order the less you will be able to charge.

If I tell you that one of my customers pays about € -,49 for a 250g palm wax container candle (they supply fo, container, packaging) you can imagine what I mean. Anyway, even in this tiny price there has to be your material costs, your labor, extra costs like energy, water etc. and your profit.

Even and especially if they are upscale they won't pay upscale prices for the candles - the cheaper the better (for them, not for you). So it is difficult to meet your needs and their price parameters. Be careful about this!

Here in Europe we have the chance to get in touch with bigger companies because there are not so many candlemakers here - that's of course advantageous:smiley2: .

Go for it!!