8-GRAN-ONES Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 As all of you know I am a new soaper..I have made about 15 batches of soap so far..I am loving it...Is there more to look at than just the numbers on soap calc?What I mean do the different types of oils play a difference even though the numbers look good..I so far have been useing Recipes that have been posted, and following those..I would like to come up with something of my own...I have been playing around quite abit on soap calc...here is some #'s I have, do they look good..I have tried to use all types of oils soft and hard, and luxury oils too.Hardness 41Cleansing 20condition 54bubbly 20creamy 21iodine 58ins 147If you want the oils and their % I don't mind listing at all...just thought it might be to long..Thanks for anyone that will give me their opinion...or advice.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scented Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Well the hardness and the cleansing numbers you posted are what I try to get when building a recipe. My bubbly and creamy usually end up close together, but I try for more bubbly than creamy.I've been using my own recipes since batch No. 3 and just when I thought I had it down, time to change and learn the ins and outs of milks and to plug in oils with more to them. Oh how I hate it.Adding, there are sites that lists benefits of the different oils. Sure wish I could find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-GRAN-ONES Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 Scented, are you saying if you use milks as liquids?You have to recalculate? I have made some with Goats milk, and Soured milkbut didn't know I had to recalculate...I just thought that was your liquid??maybe I am just dense...lol:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scented Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 No I'm learning to use milks as liquids, but I'm creating hell for myself doing so lol. It's tinkering with other oils that I can't duplicate everyone's favorite recipe. People go looking for the milk soaps here, so I should learn to do them. BUT, I'm trying to make a more conditioning bar that still gives the bubbly. So the oils I'm playing with now aren't allowing me to get like bars. I think with milks, the added sugar ought to boost the bubbles, but so far they aren't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-GRAN-ONES Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 Scented I have made a good soap using sour milk...I added sugar and saltand it has lots and lots of bubbly, condition, and creamy..I think it is really good..but then again..I don't have alot of experiance making or trying soap..it sure feels good to me... if you are interested,I will list it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 That's a superb question.One thing I always think about as part of designing a recipe is the proportions of different types of oils. I break it down into cleansing oils that add hardness and bubbles (coconut, palm kernel, babassu), hardening oils that add hardness and lather (palm, lard, various butters), and soft oils that balance out the bar. I think I learned this here in the tutorial section and I'm glad it stuck in my mind because it's one of the most useful things I've learned.You can tell a lot about a soap from the proportions of those oils and you can vary them to design different types of soaps. Your numbers look like a typical 30/20/50 soap, which usually has moderate bubbles/lather and good/average lasting power in the shower. Something like 35/25/40 for instance would typically produce a bar with above average sudsiness and lasting power.As you go along, you may think more about using key oils to get certain qualities. For instance, using cocoa butter as part of the hardening oils is especially good for adding lasting power. Using 5% castor as part of the soft oils instantly increases bubbles and lather. If your oil proportions were something like 20/20/60, you might consider using more like 10% castor to help compensate for less bubbles and lather. Those are a few of the basics, but you'll learn for yourself what oils you can rely on for certain things.Another thing to keep in mind is choosing soft oils to enhance shelf life. You can look at the iodine value of the oil to get an idea of that. For oils used in significant amounts, it's good for the iodine value to be less than 100 and preferably less than 90. Using oils with higher iodine values doesn't mean you'll have a problem (especially if the oil is fresh), but the lower values are helpful on the average.When you focus on all the above, the SoapCalc numbers tend to take care of themselves. I certainly still look at them though. The bubbles and lather numbers can be pretty accurate. I don't worry much about the cleansing value. For lasting power I tend to ignore the hardness number and focus on the iodine value. Lower numbers are obtained from more saturated oils and tend to make a harder bar. I don't pay much attention to the conditioning number. With the right choice of oils, you can make hard or soft soaps that feel great on the skin. You can also make a mediocre soap with a high conditioning number. It doesn't seem to mean a whole lot that I can tell.I'm not sure how significant the INS number is. That tends to take care of itself too. It's recommended that it be over 145 and mine is usually 150 or more. When you make something like a castile-style soap, it can drop lower.OK that's my brain dump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBE Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 As all of you know I am a new soaper..I have made about 15 batches of soap so far..I am loving it...Is there more to look at than just the numbers on soap calc?What I mean do the different types of oils play a difference even though the numbers look good..I so far have been useing Recipes that have been posted, and following those..I would like to come up with something of my own...I have been playing around quite abit on soap calc...here is some #'s I have, do they look good..I have tried to use all types of oils soft and hard, and luxury oils too.Hardness 41Cleansing 20condition 54bubbly 20creamy 21iodine 58ins 147If you want the oils and their % I don't mind listing at all...just thought it might be to long..Thanks for anyone that will give me their opinion...or advice..That's good numbers! I do what Scented does, I try to get my bubbly a wee bit higher than my creamy, but mine are always a bit close in numbers too. Your cleansing is good. I try not to go over 23 in cleansing. The more cleansing the bar, the more "tight" and "squeaky clean" your skin will feel. I don't like that "tight" feeling on my skin. Your conditioning is good too, and I think it balances with your cleansing numbers. This is going to be a very conditioning bar of soap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-GRAN-ONES Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 Thanks, Top for all the good info...and you to Creative...Top you said my numbers looked 30/20/50here are the oils that I used to get that..Coconut 76 13%Kpangnan 5%Babassu 5%Mango butter 5%Olive 34%PKO 13%Rice Bran 10%Almond (sweet) 5%Palm 10%Do you think I am using to many expencive oils? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Top you said my numbers looked 30/20/50here are the oils that I used to get that..Do you think I am using to many expencive oils?31/20/49. I was pretty close, eh?Yeah, personally I think maybe it's too many fancy oils. I've done that too. It's tempting because it seems like the express lane to fancy soap, but focusing on luxury oils and playing with the numbers in soapcalc can also distract you from learning important things, like what the staple oils do and the role of basic proportions in designing a soap recipe.Some of those ingredients might be contributing something nice. You can explore that better by trying them individually. You'll find those key oils that contribute something distinct, but in many cases it only makes a subtle difference, or none, or can even backfire.To a certain significant extent, the qualities of that recipe are defined by the proportions you used. You might find it interesting to see how a simple recipe with the same percentage of oil types compares. For instance:Coconut 15.5%Palm Kernel 15.5%Palm 20%Olive 49%Hardness 40Cleansing 20Condition 55Bubbly 20Creamy 20Iodine 55INS 151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-GRAN-ONES Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 I have so much to learn...thanks so much Top....You have been very helpful... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scented Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 To me, castor at 5% isn't a significant bubble booster and at 10% I think it makes soap a little sticky. That's been my experience. There is a happy inbetween, but I don't know that there's any difference, except on the calculator, between 7% and 8%.For a bar with 10% butters, I think you've got good numbers. You ought to make a sample batch and see what you think. It's fun to learn to create your own recipe etc. There is a site that I'm going to find one of these days on the properties of the oils as in what they're good for or if they're primarily a filler etc. I know it's out there and Google would help to find it. Just wish I still had my old bookmarks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 How a soap feels with a certain amount of castor oil also depends on what else is in it.I don't know if this is the page you're looking for but I like it:http://home.earthlink.net/~skinesscentuals/Oils-Butters.htmThe navigation on this site is pretty awful but everything is more or less reachable from here:http://home.earthlink.net/~skinesscentuals/Soap.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scented Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Nope not them, but appreciate the links. The first serves the same purpose as the other that I haven't been able to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarieJeanette Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 How a soap feels with a certain amount of castor oil also depends on what else is in it.I definitely agree. I use castor as high as 23% in a tallow batch and it is extremely hard and as far from being sticky as Pluto is from earth. I also use it in two of my other base formulas at 10% with no sticky issues. MarieJeanette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidsngarden Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 I may be a minority here but I find it a waste to use too many expensive oils in soap. I make a very basic bar of Lard, sunflower and coconut, it was one of my very first recipes and one of my best sellers is just that, totally simple. For fun (ok and to maybe prove something to myself) I subbed out all the Lard for shea. Less bubbles, but besides that not much difference. All my soaps are all made with Fresh frozen GM too. But if you are selling label appeal does count for something. In my area Lard is just fine (farming community) but in others it might not be.Still I try to keep the soaps simpler and save my expensive oils for leave on applications.Bethany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotJustFragrances Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Nope not them, but appreciate the links. The first serves the same purpose as the other that I haven't been able to find.Scented is this what you are talking about?http://www.tlcsoaps.com/oilsused.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scented Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 That was one of them, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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