C3 sweating, but not on all.. WHY???

[Mary <><]

Could any of you explain to me what I am doing wrong? I poured both of these from the same pouring pot at the same time!!! As you can see from the pic, one is sweating and the other is not. Why would that happen?

This doesn't make any sense to me at all, and it is very frustrating. I am at the point that I must remelt almost every batch that I am making bc of this.

I am using a Presto Pot w/ C3 heated to 175*-180*, I add 1 T BW pp, 1/4 t ULI, Pouring (w/ the spigot) in to metal pouring pot, immediately add FO & Liquid color, stir stir stir stir stir like crazy, cool to 125* & pour into clean glass jars. Then I leave them alone and do not move them or touch them for 2 days.

On the 2nd day I have been waking up to find them like this. It is MADDNING as you can well imagine, especially since it is only happening to some, even though they were all made exactly the same way.

PLEASE HELP!!!

[Violetsexoticcandles]

Mary,

It seems like your FO isn't incorporated well enough. How much FO did you use per lb? If too much FO is added, sweating can happen. Also, weather can add to it- if there is too much moisture or humidity, this can happen. Heat, too, can cause candles to sweat.

Not sure why one candle would do it but the other didn't. Weird. Maybe someone else knows... Did you cool them in the same area?

Violet

[Chickie1st]

Mary,

It seems like your FO isn't incorporated well enough. How much FO did you use per lb? If too much FO is added, sweating can happen. Also, weather can add to it- if there is too much moisture or humidity, this can happen. Heat, too, can cause candles to sweat.

Not sure why one candle would do it but the other didn't. Weird. Maybe someone else knows... Did you cool them in the same area?

Violet

I agree, and am wondering too if your using a heavy scented oil? Sometimes it takes forever to get it to incorporate into the wax.

[topofmurrayhill]

Seems like you've been having a problem with this for a while now. Don't you think you're probably using too much fragrance? That would be the most obvious possibility anyway.

What's ULI and what made you decide to use these additives with C3?

[Stella1952]

I am at the point that I must remelt almost every batch that I am making bc of this.

Mary, I read back on the difficulties you were having in October

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?p=568781#post568781

with the grainy texture and I think the solutions to both problems may lie right in that old thread. You didn't mention either place that I read how much FO you are using, but I see that something is happening to the structure of the wax and I think it is related to your additives and/or FO. What FO(s) have given you trouble?

What is this USI...ULI? Is that the ultraviolet stabilizer stuff?

If this is happening to you batch after batch, I think the problem may be a combination of the FOs that you are using and the additives (specifically the beeswax and USA and whatever the other stuff is...). Try leaving out additives, starting with the beeswax and see if the situation improves. If it does not, try using a FO from a different source and see if that makes a difference.

[Mary <><]

Mary, I read back on the difficulties you were having in October

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?p=568781#post568781

with the grainy texture and I think the solutions to both problems may lie right in that old thread. You didn't mention either place that I read how much FO you are using, but I see that something is happening to the structure of the wax and I think it is related to your additives and/or FO. What FO(s) have given you trouble?

What is this USI...ULI? Is that the ultraviolet stabilizer stuff?

If this is happening to you batch after batch, I think the problem may be a combination of the FOs that you are using and the additives (specifically the beeswax and USA and whatever the other stuff is...). Try leaving out additives, starting with the beeswax and see if the situation improves. If it does not, try using a FO from a different source and see if that makes a difference.

Thanks to all for your replies. :smiley2: I should have stated before that I am using 1 oz pp of FO and never any more than that. I add the BW to give a smoother, creamier appearance to the tops. The other additive I mentioned was the ultraviolet stabilizer stuff, and I used that bc I was having a problem w my uncolored candles turning yellowish a few weeks to a month after pouring them. Since my problem in October, I have stopped using USA & the CO, but I am still using the light stuff, so maybe I should give that up too. I thought this stuff was supposed to HELP you make better candles, not make new problems while trying to solve other ones, LOL! I guess I can try giving that up too, but it seems like you all really think the BW is the first thing I should give up. What is it about the BW that would possibly cause this to happen? I will try a batch w/o it if I have to, but I just love the creamy smooth texture it adds to the finished candle.

This problem is happening to every fragrance I am using, not just a few and not just "heavy" fragrances, though I am not quite sure I could adaquately differentiate between a heavy one and a light one. Surely every one I am using is not heavy, or could they be? I am cooling them all in the same place. I just can't reason out why some would be perfect and others from the exact same pouring pot would be sweating.

Thanks!

[Violetsexoticcandles]

I would cut out the beeswax and buy a heat gun. I use C3 and sometimes the tops will come out funky, but as long as you're pouring at a low temp as recommended, and you use a heat gun, the tops will be smooth. I don't use any additives...

[Judy, USMC]

Similar to what my friend experienced. Found out she was stirring like mad just at the beginning, letting the pour pot sit to cool and then pouring. Now she also stirs the pot thoroughly just before pouring and hasn't had a problem.

[Mary <><]

I would cut out the beeswax and buy a heat gun. I use C3 and sometimes the tops will come out funky, but as long as you're pouring at a low temp as recommended, and you use a heat gun, the tops will be smooth. I don't use any additives...

I think this would help & it is a great suggestion, however, My DH (the most supportive & wonderful guy in the world), is not comfortable with me getting a heat gun. He used them at his old job & is convinced that they are dangerous & said he could not sleep at nite if I had one of those. I would love to try that, but unfortunately it is not an option.

Similar to what my friend experienced. Found out she was stirring like mad just at the beginning, letting the pour pot sit to cool and then pouring. Now she also stirs the pot thoroughly just before pouring and hasn't had a problem.

I stir gently but relentlessly all throughout the entire cooling time, and especially just before I pour. Maybe I need to stir more aggressively???

Thanks to you all for your suggestions, & keep them coming if you think of any more!

[Vio]

What kind of universal additive do you have for your C-3? I got my universal soy additive from JBN and used it with my first candle and the top came out nice and used 1 oz pp of fo too and I had no bleeding fo. That was the only additive I used and I got great results with it.

I'm also wondering if it could have something to do with some lighter elements in the presto pot floating or heavier sinking, since you're using the spigot. Try laddling the wax instead maybe?

[topofmurrayhill]

Try leaving out the beeswax. It may not play nicely with one of the ingredients in C3. For example GB recommends not to use beeswax with their blended waxes like 444 and 464.

[Stella1952]

I agree about the beeswax. If you like what beeswax does for ya, try leaving out the CO and/or the USA.

Using a bunch of additives when you are not trying to correct a specific problem is a poor idea. Each different additive does something good for the mix, but also brings other properties with it as well that may not play nice with the other additives. If you are going to use beeswax, leave out the CO and perhaps the USA. All three are used for similar problems - consistency, smooth tops, frosting, better scent throw - but the three different additives "get there" in three different ways. The idea is to use the minimum amount of stuff to produce the candle that you want - don't just use additives "because"... Some folks think that they can take a short cut and just put every additive in that different folks use and they'll get a perfect candle. Nothing could be further from the truth. You first need to isolate what difficulties you are having before you use ANY additives.

Stirring before pouring is important to give one final "combining" before the wax mixture is poured.

Heatgunning is no resolution for PROBLEMS - it is simply a quick & dirty way to "save" an unacceptable candle. Unfortunately, heat guns can cause frosting down the line, so it's better to actually try to resolve the problems rather than put a bandaid on the booboos after they occur.

Having said that, when a small blemish occurs, a heat gun can save a candle that otherwise would not be sellable because of the little cosmetic blemish.

In defense of the safety of heat guns, if your husband "allows" you to have a blow dryer or curling iron, a heat gun shouldn't bother him. :rolleyes2 You have to use them safely! I assume you are a smart enough cookie to unplug appliances when not in use; to not set a hot appliance (like a curling iron or blow dryer or heat gun) on a surface or near things it might harm; nor to use it on an ungrounded or overloaded circuit; nor to blast the entire area with 700° heat! These are not like operating chain saws! Your kitchen probably contains appliances that require as much safety and care to use than a dadgummed heat gun! It's hard to make candles without one to help with last minute blemish fixing! I hope he will reconsider... :rolleyes2

Happy holidays! HTH

[topofmurrayhill]

I agree about the beeswax. If you like what beeswax does for ya, try leaving out the CO and/or the USA.

She's already leaving out the USA but that doesn't mean there isn't any in there. C-3 is some sort of blend so it's a good bet there's an emulsifier in it. In other words I think the product is more akin to GB444 than GB415.

It's tempting when you start out to try everything you heard of that might make it better. That usually backfires plus makes it confusing to sort out what's wrong.

C-3 is intended to be a fully formulated product. That doesn't mean you can't add to it, but start out with the plain wax and fragrance first and make sure the candles are coming out normal. Later you can experiment with how to make them better if you wish.

[Judy, USMC]

It's tempting when you start out to try everything you heard of that might make it better. That usually backfires plus makes it confusing to sort out what's wrong. ... start out with the plain wax and fragrance first and make sure the candles are coming out normal. Later you can experiment with how to make them better if you wish.

That sounds like a great opening line for a Candlemaker's Guide. Simple, concise and oh so true!!!!

[Mary <><]

It's tempting when you start out to try everything you heard of that might make it better. That usually backfires plus makes it confusing to sort out what's wrong.

C-3 is intended to be a fully formulated product. That doesn't mean you can't add to it, but start out with the plain wax and fragrance first and make sure the candles are coming out normal. Later you can experiment with how to make them better if you wish.

This sounds like me for sure. I guess I have been trying to be preemptive in my estimations of what I might need. At first I was putting every addative I had ever heard of in there! LOL! I have cut out a lot of it, but it sounds like I need to go back to the beginning and try just wax & FO as you suggested. Thanks to you all for your great advice!

[topofmurrayhill]

Oh yeah, about the UV (that's usually what we call it for short). You actually should be using that. Most everyone does. It shouldn't cause any problems at the recommended usage rate.

I've got a strong inkling your oozing will go away with plain C-3. The candles may not be perfect, but there's no additive except paraffin that eliminates all soy suckage without breaking something.

If you experiment further with the candle design, there's one more bit of advice you should keep close to your heart. Only change one thing at a time (only one!), then compare with your previous design and see what the difference is.

That rule is harder to follow than it sounds. You can always think of two changes you imagine will make it come out just right. It's tempting to cut that corner to reach nirvana a little quicker. Unfortunately, the outcome is less predictable in reality than it is your mind. Knowing what happens when you change one thing is useful. Knowing what happens when you change two or more things at once, not so much.

Good luck and Merry Christmas.

[Sharon in KY]

I have had this happen so many time and tried so many things. Nothing works all the time so I go back to just plain 435. I have poured 30 tarts to a tray and have just a few will sweat or most of the tray then the rest will be perfect that is unless the are flaky of top or have a crater or two or turn whitish. It's nothing you do it's the air the humidity the wax who knows? But if anyone hits on the right thing I bet I buy some.

[PamR]

I have had this happen with the latest batch of c3--I used only 7% fo, heated to 180, stirred like crazy, let cool, stirred again, then poured. The sweat only occurs when my candles get cold, go figure. It also doesn't always happen quickly, sometimes overnight, other times it takes a few days. But it is totally unacceptable to me & I'm now testing other soys.

PamR