wicking for 4" jar

[Meridith]

And if tapered, is the diameter of the smallest part also at least 4 inches? Or is it just the top part of the jar that is 4 inches?

[Meridith]

I'm bumping this up as I am curious to hear if this jar is tapered and if the 4" diameter is the smallest width of the jar. I hope that made sense.

[Stella1952]

idacandlelady: Hey Stella, I'm curious. Is this jar tapered?

Yes, the jar is tapered.

Meridith: And if tapered, is the diameter of the smallest part also at least 4 inches? Or is it just the top part of the jar that is 4 inches?

No. The exact INSIDE measurements are: 4.25" at the top lip, narrows at ¾" down to 4", then tapers down to 3.5" at the very bottom with a depth of 4.125".

kandlekrazy: I didn't test it for very long, but going back in my notes it seemed like when I added the beeswax, I got more hangup on the sides than the candles without it in the same jars

KK, this has a direct bearing on the hangup. I found with beeswax, the wax is harder and more resistant to heat (great for summertime); therefore it WILL hang up worse than with no beeswax or one might have to wick up to compensate. Our 8 oz. WM jars tend to hangup a little with the beeswax formula in cooler temps, but they all catch up during the second half of the burn. The candle I am testing now has beeswax in it and I am certain that if it did not, the hangup would already have slid down the sides of the jar. I probably should have wicked mine with a 22, but I generally choose the smallest wick I think will do the job... This one will eventually burn clean, but it's a Big'Un and this won't happen until the bottom half of the burn, I feel sure. Maybe we'll see later tonight or tomorrow as it's entering the last half of the candle.

Sorry I didn't take photos yesterday - I burned the Big'Un in Mom's room all day until I put her to bed in the wee hours. Here it is after Burn #3, wick trimmed and ready for lighting for #4:

Beginning of Burn #4...

Notice that the hangup on the sides has thinned to the glass and is beginning to slide down...

Meridith: Keep us posted Stella. I'm rooting for your candle to burn good. I still question if getting a consistently good burn in a 4" inch jar, single wicked with soy is possible?

Your original question/statement is becoming more specific and waffling. A 4" container obviously can be single-wicked successfully and consistantly in soy wax. Since we have heard from several sources on this, I suspect this isn't a blue moon occurrence. You also said that you couldn't get a clean burn on a WM canning jar with a single wick. That's the ONLY way we wick ours and ALWAYS get a clean burn with a CDN 14, regardless of FO that we use (sorry, I don't have photos of each and every FO we have ever tested in those containers) including heavy ones like vanillas, patchoulis and neroli.

Instead of saying it can't be done and watching others test, why not grab some different wicks and JOIN the testing?

[idacandlelady]

I found that I had a tester (4" apothecary type) waiting with a single CDN 22. Celtic Moonspice fo at 8%, accu soy 10 wax and 1/2 tsp coconut oil. Started burning it last night. The CDN 22 was a torch and after about 1 1/2 hours had a huge mushroom. I put it out, clipped the wick and re-lit. After the four hours(total) another huge mushroom, so I pulled the wick and went down to a 20. Lit it this morning and after 4 hours had almost full MP and another huge mushroom. I'm gonna pull this wick and try an 18. Not sure if this is what you are supposed to do when you get mushrooming(wick down), but I'm willing to try, especially if I can get this single wicking to work well.

Don't have any pictures but maybe after I change the wick again I will snap some.

Thanks Stella for jumping in and trying this out. It's nice to see someone elses results. I think maybe it's the CDN wicks. I have tried it with other wicks and no luck.

We'll see!

[Stella1952]

Ida, I don't know how the 8% + coconut oil will affect your wax, but it may cause extra 'shrooming. I'm at 6% + CO + BW. The wick on Big'Un I'm testing DOES 'shroom. The 'shrooms usually self-trim, but when they don't, I have trimmed the wick once during those marathon burns. Didn't trim at all during the third, but I did on the first and second burns. So far today, the hangup on the lip is biting the dust - don't have a FMP yet, but I only lit it an hour or so ago.

Personally, I wouldn't pull that 20 yet... I don't think an 18 will cut the mustard. Just give it a trim at 4 hours and keep on truckin'.

A cold front is moving in and it's windy, so I am enjoying testing the heat of the container frequently! Wish I could test it with my toes!

[idacandlelady]

I went ahead and lit it again with the 20, to see how it goes. Another problem I'm having is the flame is enormous. About 2". Would trimming the wick shorter make the flame smaller? I've been afraid to trim too short. I'm also getting a little smoke from the flame. Maybe the coconut oil has something to do with it. I think I will pour another tonight and either drop the coconut or reduce the FO%, I'll decide which when I get to it.

[Meridith]

Yes, the jar is tapered.

No. The exact INSIDE measurements are: 4.25" at the top lip, narrows at ¾" down to 4", then tapers down to 3.5" at the very bottom with a depth of 4.125".

Notice that the hangup on the sides has thinned to the glass and is beginning to slide down...

Your original question/statement is becoming more specific and waffling. A 4" container obviously can be single-wicked successfully and consistantly in soy wax. Since we have heard from several sources on this, I suspect this isn't a blue moon occurrence. You also said that you couldn't get a clean burn on a WM canning jar with a single wick. That's the ONLY way we wick ours and ALWAYS get a clean burn with a CDN 14, regardless of FO that we use (sorry, I don't have photos of each and every FO we have ever tested in those containers) including heavy ones like vanillas, patchoulis and neroli.

Instead of saying it can't be done and watching others test, why not grab some different wicks and JOIN the testing?

I have tested extensively before and could not get a full mp in a 4 inch jar (apothocary jar). AND I never said I can not get a clean burn in WM canning jar and one wick. What I said was that I can't with some of the heavier FOs. Re-read what I said and see if it makes sense to you the second time around. This is one of the jars I carry in my retail store so I have tested this jar extensively and continue to test as I add new scents and some scents just can not be single wicked in this jar. I would love to be able to single wick some of the FOs I've tried but couldn't - I think this jar looks funny DW'd so there are some FO's I can not pour in this jar.

I've also said that I have don't believe I have tested the CDN's (again re-read my earlier posts) and even admitted that wicks and waxes are constantly being improved. To get a good burn on one candle means only that you got a good burn on one candle, with one fragrance, during a specific time of year (meaning that candles burn differently during the seasons - hence why you can up your BW in the summer months but usually have to decrease it in the winter months). What is your burn like with a heavier FO? Have you tried fragrances like Warm Orange Gingerbread (TNN), any Patchouli, Apples and Honey (TCS)? These ones are buggers to wick. Do the CDNs burn well with the heavier in larger jars? I know that you didn't take pictures of all your tests nor did I expect that you would but surely you can rely on memory or notes to tell us what your results were with heavier FOs?

I'm not "waffling" but clarifying what I expect with a burn regardless of if the jar is single wicked or DW'd. To get a 4 inch jar to burn is one thing, but to get it to burn the way I would want it to burn can be a whole other thing. I'm not a weekend crafter, hobbyist or newbie. This is my business so I am pretty picky at the burn I get. In other words, Yes, I can get a 4 inch jar and one wick that will burn but not clean and not to my liking or standards.

Another thing Stella, while I am skeptical, I am still hopeful as I believe a wick that will consistently (and I do think consistently is pretty important) burn a 4 in diameter jar clean would be wonderful. If you can only get it to burn clean with some FOs and under certain circumstances, than to me that is not what I am looking for. I will do this and post my results when my busy season is over and I have time. I'll pour in an apothocary jar (4 inch diameter), and I'll use a heavier FO to see how it goes and post my results. I have no problem there. But, your sarcasm is duly noted.

[Meridith]

Stella, I forgot to add that my results will be for pure soy as well as one with additives to show how they might burn differently. I'll even go so far as to pour with a lighter FO and one with a known heavier FO in both waxes. How would that be? You are burning a blend which makes a difference. So I think it will be interesting to see the difference between the two waxes - a blend and 100% soy. I noted in my first post that I believe it is hard to single wick soy in a 4 inch diameter jar - especially in 100% soy.

[Stella1952]

Ida, I trim wicks to ¼" at the beginning of a burn. When I am trimming in mid-burn, they may be a tad longer 'cause my wick trimmers get all goopy with wax if I get down too close...

I haven't trimmed this one since I lit it this afternoon and the 'shrooms have all self-trimmed at some point, then redeveloped. The wick length looks like ~½", but the 'shrooms are fixin' to drop again... The flame size is more than I am accustomed to seeing, but this is a 20 and most of our stuff is wicked with 14s or smaller. I feel better about it since the candle has burned down halfway and have taken my finger off the trigger of the fire extinguisher...

I'm also getting a little smoke from the flame. Maybe the coconut oil has something to do with it.

The CO may be causing that... I seem to remember something in the food industry stuff I have been reading recently that said that a drawback of CO was that it smoked at a relatively low temperature, so it's certainly possible...

So far, the Big'Un is toolin' right along. There is a small area of hangup up on the lip, but most of it is sliding down the jar nicely. It's AWFUL hard not to "help" it along as it looks kinda scummy as it eases its way down, but that's what I get for using the BW after Labor Day...:rolleyes2 Hope Serial Mom doesn't get me! Will post more in-progress pics tomorrow or so.

But, your sarcasm is duly noted.

No sarcasm intended at all, Meridith. I think testing is interesting and fun, but I certainly understand being too busy to mess with things that aren't on the front burner at the moment. The holidays are upon us all and 4" containers are not one we normally pour, so I won't be repeating this test for some time.

What is your burn like with a heavier FO? Have you tried fragrances like Warm Orange Gingerbread (TNN), any Patchouli, Apples and Honey (TCS)? These ones are buggers to wick. Do the CDNs burn well with the heavier in larger jars? I know that you didn't take pictures of all your tests nor did I expect that you would but surely you can rely on memory or notes to tell us what your results were with heavier FOs?

As I said earlier, the heavier oils - patchoulis, vanillas and neroli - we have tested and use in our 8 oz. WM canning jars all burn well for us.

Nope, we haven't tried Warm Orange Gingerbread (TNN - ??? - not familiar with this abbreviation), or any Patchouli, Apples and Honey (I couldn't locate that FO at TCS), although the different patchoulis and apples (from JBN, LS, Peak, Cajun, SOS, CS and Wellington) and Wild Mountain Honey (Peak) we have tried all have burned consistently well. Have no idea what would happen with all three at once!

I dunno whether the CDNs will burn well in larger jars using heavier oils or not - this is our maiden voyage for larger jars with White Tea and Ginger (Peak) using a CDN 20. As I said before - this is NOT a size container we normally use - I simply snagged the only ~4" container that I own in which to test. Guess we are just having beginner's luck.

I'm not a weekend crafter, hobbyist or newbie. This is my business so I am pretty picky at the burn I get. In other words, Yes, I can get a 4 inch jar and one wick that will burn but not clean and not to my liking or standards.

Wish everyone in the candle-selling business was as dedicated to the finer points of making soy candles as you are.

[Meridith]

Stella,

I look forward to this testing and posting my results. I enjoy testing new things and seeing how far I can push it. I'll keep you posted.

Try the Tennessee's Warm Orange Gingerbread - it is a nice fragrance but is one bugger to wick. I've given up on that one for the time being. It soaps great though other than the dark color it turns. lol If you can get it wicked, let me know how you did it. I want pictures as well. lol (I'm j/k of course and being a SA).

Here is the link to TCS (Texas Candle Supply)

http://www.texascandlesupply.net/chuckwagon.asp

The apples and honey is a great fall scent but so far, I've had nothing but trouble getting it wicked with one wick as well as two. So far it is a no go in my WM jars. Grrrrr!!!!!!! If you can get this one figured out, let me know so I can maybe save some of my hair.

I can wick patchouli, Drakkar and some other heavy FOs with 2 wicks but not in the WM jars with just 1 wick. I wish I could since I won't DW this jar because I don't like the look. There are a few FOs I dropped from that jar for this reason and if I could put them on the shelf in this jar, I'd be a happy gal and there would be a wiggle to my walk. lol