Would this be a valid way to test for THROW?

[Judy, USMC]

Getting tired of pouring FO into soy container wax and palm container wax and then playing for with the wicks for days to try and make it throw - only to eventually chalk it up to - "Doesn't throw in my wax!" So I was thinking of a shortcut and would welcome your comments - do you think that this would help determine if a FO will throw well in a particular wax?

Just make a wickless one - or some tarts. Let it cure and then melt. If it throws then go to wick testing. If it doesn't just write it off.

Makes sense to me - but that's the frightening part! Tried to do a thread search but came up dry on this one. (Keeping my fingers crossed that TopOfMurrayHill and/or Jakalex will chime in on this one!)

[sharig]

Hey Judy,

I think that is a really good idea. I recently just started messing with the 6028, para soy pillar wax, what I've been doing is just looking up on the suppliers website and see what their soy rating is for that particular scent. But I like your idea too. I have so many scents and wonder just how well they would work in soy, they are some of my favorites. Anyway, let me know how things go.

Shari

[jakalex]

Sounds like a good idea to me. I am sure Top or other experienced chandlers who have probably tested for years would have a more educated opinion than me.

[sharig]

Sorry I took up your time. Maybe if you wanted someone specific to answer your question, you should have pm'd them. Hope you get the answers from the people you want.

[jakalex]

When I clicked to post my reply, shariq's post had not been submitted. Obviously it was taken as a personal hit which in no way was it since I had not even seen that reply. Clarified with original post so not to offend anyone else. Jeees, just trying to answer a question.

[Vicky_CO]

The answer to the original question is no for one very good reason the majority of the FO for candles will throw in a tarts or wickless but not necessarily when wicked. Now I am not saying they all throw well in wickless just you will get a throw.

I personally do it just the opposite if I get it to throw in my candle then I try the tarts if it doesn't do well in both that is a junked scent. Most of the time they do well in tarts if they have made it past wicked.

[debscent]

I do the same as Vicky. I test with wicks first (I sell melts, but more candles), and I don't want to offer certain scents for melts and certain scents for candles.

[PurpleHippie]

Vicky is right and I use the same method. Normally if I can't get a good throw in a container or pillar(wicks) I can use the FO's as wickless and tarts. It is rare that I have an FO that does not produce a satisfactory throw in wickless and tarts. That is a good way to find some use for those FO's that we spend so much money on ordering and just can't get them to throw in candles. I am always disappointed when I have an FO that makes an awesome tart and no matter what wick I test or what % of FO I use I can't get a good throw. So I sick to tarts with that FO. So to answer your question, no a wickless doesn't necessarly mean you will get a good throw in a candle using a wick. Just like FO's out of bottle scent isn't always the same when it gets in the wax.

[Beth-VT]

I'm with Vicky as well.

With a wickless, the type of wax you use is much less important. It's strictly a heat/FO issue.

With an actual candle, the wick determines heat produced, the size of the melt pool, and thus the amount of throw you'll get. Using the wrong wick in "x" wax could get you zero throw. Replace it with a more appropriate wick and it could run you out of the house.

[hometowncandles]

I have also noticed that certain f/o's smell different when burning as a candle vs. burning as a tart. JS Chestnuts & Brown Sugar comes to mind. I love this scent in a candle right down to the end, but have noticed that in tarts, after a few days it starts to smell too sugary sweet for me and I have to change it. There are others, but this one is one of my favs so I guess it stands out more.

Sorry, not really any help to your initial question, just my experience.

Jennifer

[Brenda (OH)]

I also agree with the "wick" making the difference in throw vs. a wickless candle or tarts. If it is any help, something I have started doing is pouring a smaller amount of a new scent into my regular containers to test for throw so I don't waste my wax. If pouring half a jar provides a good scent throw and I have conquered the wicking then I repour a full candle to assure the trial test is on track. There are soooo many times that I go gagga over a scent OOB only to find out that in wax it doesn't perform well. Wax is to precious for me to waste.

I hope that makes "scents" -

[Judy, USMC]

The answer to the original question is no for one very good reason the majority of the FO for candles will throw in a tarts or wickless but not necessarily when wicked. Now I am not saying they all throw well in wickless just you will get a throw.

QUOTE]

And here's the exact point of my question - if it WILL NOT THROW WELL as a wickless or tart in the wax I'm using for container candles - should I spend more time trying different wicks to get it to throw?

Or do you have a standard wax & wick combo, pour a candle, and if it doesn't throw with your combination you dismiss it?

Let me clarify. This is not to replace testing a candle - I just want to test to see if it will throw in my wax before I go to the trouble of testing for the appropriate wick.

TYIA, Judy

[Vicky_CO]

Okay Judy maybe I did not explain it well. You will waste more money by going the tart route. First you get this great scent throw in a tart but when you stick a wick in it no matter what wick it won't throw now you not only have wasted money testing a tart plus the testing done in the regular candle.

Lets say you buy 100 FO and you test them in tarts, 95 of them give a good to great throw but out of those 100 FO only 40 will throw in your wax once there is a wick in it. That why I say why bother with the tart route first I also have more play room with my tarts like adding a bit more FO or even decreasing the FO.

do you have a standard wax & wick combo, pour a candle, and if it doesn't throw with your combination you dismiss it?

No I don't really have a standard wick size per jar. I have a size I start with but if that one doesn't work I jerk it and put either a different size in or a different type. Take my 4 oz candle for most FO the best wick is 75c but not always sometimes I have to use a RRD or HTP wick

Let me clarify. This is not to replace testing a candle - I just want to test to see if it will throw in my wax before I go to the trouble of testing for the appropriate wick.

I knew that

[Judy, USMC]

Lets say you buy 100 FO and you test them in tarts, 95 of them give a good to great throw but out of those 100 FO only 40 will throw in your wax once there is a wick in it. That why I say why bother with the tart route first I also have more play room with my tarts like adding a bit more FO or even decreasing the FO.

But I haven't been finding just a 5% Doesn't Work rate. The first 10 I've poured as candles had oils from 5 different suppliers. Poured, wicked and cured for 7 days. Did the swap out the wick method and couldn't get 4 of them (from 3 different suppliers) to throw; 6 did throw as a candle. I made my notes for FO % and wicks that worked.

In order to clean out my jars I put them on an old coffee pot heater plate. When I was melting the ones that worked as candles the aroma filled the room (& more for some). But when I melted the ones that didn't work the aroma throw was only in about an 18" radius from the jar. If I would have started eleminating at the wickless/tart stage I could have eliminated 40% of the FO's AND saved all the time to wick, burn 3 hours, rewick, and burn another 3 hours...just to find out it wouldn't work!

That's what lead me to think - just do tarts first.

I'm thinking with a large variation with what your experience is and mine it must be the different wax formulas we use. Mine is probably just very particular especially if yours throws in such a high percentage of tarts!!!

[Vicky_CO]

First place my tart recipe is not the same as my container recipe I personaly found container blends are not that great for tarts but that is a personal preference.

I was just giving you generalizations not that out of every 100 only 5 won't throw.

Here is something else you make not have taken in to account when you where wicking and pulling the wick placing a new wick and burning again you may have very well have burned off most of the FO so if you was to start over with those same FO you might find that they actually do throw in a tart.

Basicly what I am saying is there really is no short cut on this one.

[Judy, USMC]

Here is something else you make not have taken in to account when you where wicking and pulling the wick placing a new wick and burning again you may have very well have burned off most of the FO ...

But if that is true why do the other 6 still throw the aroma very well if they've gone through the exact same testing? My formula for making tarts is different, too. I meant making a tart form with the container wax.

And this is what I love about this forum - variety of ideas and people willing to take time to explain their methods and the reason why! Thanks, Vicky.:highfive:

I think I'll try BOTH methods for the next 10! (Just in case it is my persnikety wax.)

[PurpleHippie]

I think I understand what you are asking. If it won't throw in a wickless or tart using the same wax and same FO % then is it worth it to try testing in a container? I would say yes, testing with a wick may give you different results. However, if you have the time and want to invest in the extra FO and wax usage it would be interesting to continue testing your wickless then container with a wick and see if you keep getting the same results. I find it interesting that the FO's that didn't produce a good throw in a wickless also tested equally as weak with a wick.

Excuse me for hyjacking your post for one question...

Here is something else you make not have taken in to account when you where wicking and pulling the wick placing a new wick and burning again you may have very well have burned off most of the FO so if you was to start over with those same FO you might find that they actually do throw in a tart.

I think I may have misunderstood something here. I am a little confused as to why doing a test burn for say 4 hours, not getting a good throw and inserting a new wick might mean that all of the FO was burned off from the previous testing? Isn't it the same as if you were to burn the candle with the same wick several times for 4 hours? Each burn doesn't burn off all of the FO in the container? I can see how testing as a wickless several times FIRST and then using the same wax for testing with a wick might not give accurate results. What am I missing here? LOL

[Judy, USMC]

From what I understand, if your wick is wrong (too hot) it can actually burn off the FO (i.e. be consumed by the flame rather than released into the air.) Then when that melt pool re-solidifies the % of FO in that layer has actually decreased. When lit the next time, the aroma is decreased because there is less FO left in the top (previously melted) layer.

However, if you were using the same wick the % of FO left in the burn pool would remain consistent. That's why I start low with the wicks and work my way up. HTH - HIEC (Hope I explained correctly)

[PurpleHippie]

Ah, I see! I would hate to start over and make a new container each time I needed to just test a different wick. I can see how it would be helpful!