can I sell these yet, do you reckon?

[Wick'n'Wax]

thanks nat,

I've given the craftersinsurance a call and will use them once website is up and ready to sell

[sockmonkey]

Another thing that is seldom mentioned (and I don't know if this applies to you or not), but if you rent a home and run a business out of it, it could be grounds for getting you evicted--especially if they discover you're using flammable materials.

[Jane42]

I've done 14 fo's so far and tested 4 of each. They all burned for 17 hours-ish.

Is it safe to sell those fo's I've tested now?

I am a bit stumped here, and I am really questioning whether my testing standards are strict enough.

I would have thought that if you tested four votives of each scent, and they burned well and for at least 17 hours, they would be "good to go".

We have a certain formula down for our votives. Except for a few FO's, most take the same wick. We are testing two votives, and if they need to be wicked up or down, two more. If they burn well, we go with it. When new wax comes in, we test a couple of each batch to make sure it is still burning the same. With the 4794 and LX wicks, there really does not seem to be much variation in the way the votives burn.

What are everyone elses standards to testing votives before selling? Should I be more stringent?

We sold at a church bazaar ONCE without insurance, and I would never do it again. We were anxious to see how people would respond to our items, but we were so nervous about it, we decided to get insurance before our next sale. We have had insurance ever since....

[gmp]

Just to clarify (sorry, I may be hijacking here) if you make candles as a hobby and are giving them away to people and do not have a business whatsoever, you do not need insurance? Is this right?

[MissMary]

I'd still get it, because it's a product you made, regardless of how it got into other's hands.

[Wick'n'Wax]

Just to clarify (sorry, I may be hijacking here) if you make candles as a hobby and are giving them away to people and do not have a business whatsoever, you do not need insurance? Is this right?

From what I've been told and read, I don't think its the monetary aspect, I think its the fact its a candle you've made

[sockmonkey]

Just to clarify (sorry, I may be hijacking here) if you make candles as a hobby and are giving them away to people and do not have a business whatsoever, you do not need insurance? Is this right?

I'd still get it, because it's a product you made, regardless of how it got into other's hands.

I honestly don't know the answer, but if you're strictly limiting this to a hobby status and are giving them away as gifts, I would think that your homeowners insurance or a personal liability clause contained therein should be sufficient.

Everything comes with dangers. A person could sue you over anything. If I baked a cake to give as a gift I wouldn't take out an extra policy on that, yet someone could choke to death on it, be poisoned by it, have an allergic reaction to it, etc., and I could be sued for that. If I started making 100 cakes a day, I would be taking that from a hobby classification to a manufacturing/bakery classification, and that's something that an insurance agent will want to know.

Your best bet is to check with an insurance company directly to see what type of limitations they have on "hobbies."

[MissMary]

But if you made cakes often and gave them out often, it wouldn't be a one off thing. Additionally, cakes don't have fire hazards... well, I take that back, I have seen one burst into flames, but that was silly strings fault, not the cake!

But I agree, check your insurer to see if it's covered, I just doubt, based on my research that candles would be, as randomly as baking a cake. Hell, I even found out with some homeowner's insurance, if you BURN a candle, regardless where it comes from, and your house catches fire, it could nullify your policy! That to me makes it even more so that if that did happen, they'd look for outs from the loss.

[sockmonkey]

MissMary, you're repeating exactly what I said. The person asked a question about making candles for a hobby and giving them away as a gift. My example was to show hobby vs. manufacturing goods for insurance purposes. If you're making candles (or cakes) by the hundreds in your home on a regular basis, an insurance company isn't likely to look at that as a simple hobby anymore.

I'm just curious about what insurance company are you dealing with? The thought of anyone having their policy canceled because they burn a candle is completely ludicrous. At least 75% of homes (if not more) have some type of candle in them. In fact, people are encouraged to keep candles and flashlights in their homes for emergencies, so I don't see an insurer nullifying a policy if the candle catches the house on fire (provided fraud wasn't involved). That is exactly why people buy insurance.

[MissMary]

No, what we said isn't the same thing. Baking a cake and giving it away isn't the same as giving something away that gives flames. If someone chokes on it, it's their own fault, it's a consumable.

A candle is a fire hazard within itself. You can leave a cake sitting out when you leave, but a candle you shouldn't.

As for insurance companies, I didn't say it was all or even most, but a few companies DO have that in place. The situation I was given was that if a house burns down because of a candle, it's either negligence (which if you check nullifies quite a few policies in some cases), or it would be a manufacturer's fault, either way so that the ho insurer doesn't pay.

If you think it's a rarity for silly clauses and/or fine print to be in homeowner's clauses, I suggest you check your own. You'll be surprised about what you think is totally covered, versus what is actually covered. Lots of policies don't cover floods either.

It's all about what you make sure you get, or turn down, it isn't specific to any ONE company. The ones I chose for my purposes, I made sure covered not only my home, but my products, and liability for them, additionally, all business assets, etc.

My old policy with USAA however, did not cover candles I chose to give away, but it did cover consumables, i.e. cakes. Which is why I pointed out the specific difference in the two. When I asked why not candles I gave away before having a business set up, it was because the answer was "They are candles and a fire hazard." And especially since they don't even have policies for product liability.

When I called around for quote for business insurance, I was told pretty much the same thing, that giving away anything that has to do with FIRE can be cause for higher premiums or outright refusal. Many people here, that I have read have said that their candles are covered by a separate policy because their homeowner's doesn't cover it. It'd only be logical, even without my own research, that if they won't cover it, when you pay for it, they won't for free, just because it's a candle.

[sockmonkey]

No, what we said isn't the same thing. Baking a cake and giving it away isn't the same as giving something away that gives flames. If someone chokes on it, it's their own fault, it's a consumable.

A candle is a fire hazard within itself. You can leave a cake sitting out when you leave, but a candle you shouldn't.

A candle is only a hazard when it's lit, just like a cake is only a hazard when it's eaten.

As for insurance companies, I didn't say it was all or even most, but a few companies DO have that in place. The situation I was given was that if a house burns down because of a candle, it's either negligence (which if you check nullifies quite a few policies in some cases), or it would be a manufacturer's fault, either way so that the ho insurer doesn't pay.

There are accidents. Everything doesn't boil down to negligence or manufacturer's default. As an example, if you have candle burning and a ceiling tile comes crashing down from above, landing on the candle and igniting it. That is an accident. It was an unforseen occurence that could not have been prevented. It wasn't the candlemaker's fault, and it wasn't the homeowner's fault. It was just one of those fluke things.

If you think it's a rarity for silly clauses and/or fine print to be in homeowner's clauses, I suggest you check your own. You'll be surprised about what you think is totally covered, versus what is actually covered. Lots of policies don't cover floods either.

I don't recall saying anything was a rarity. I said it was ludicrous, and I'm not disputing that it exists. Insurance companies will put a clause in for ANYTHING to prevent having to pay a claim.

It's all about what you make sure you get, or turn down, it isn't specific to any ONE company. The ones I chose for my purposes, I made sure covered not only my home, but my products, and liability for them, additionally, all business assets, etc.

My old policy with USAA however, did not cover candles I chose to give away, but it did cover consumables, i.e. cakes. Which is why I pointed out the specific difference in the two. When I asked why not candles I gave away before having a business set up, it was because the answer was "They are candles and a fire hazard." And especially since they don't even have policies for product liability.

When I called around for quote for business insurance, I was told pretty much the same thing, that giving away anything that has to do with FIRE can be cause for higher premiums or outright refusal. Many people here, that I have read have said that their candles are covered by a separate policy because their homeowner's doesn't cover it. It'd only be logical, even without my own research, that if they won't cover it, when you pay for it, they won't for free, just because it's a candle.

I don't know what the deal is with your insurance and candles, because I sell over $12,000 worth of candles a year out of my store, and it's never been a problem for me to get insurance, nor did my agent (who comes to my shop at least twice a year) ever suggest it was a deadly hazardous product I was selling. Of course, I'm not operating out of my home, or making candles myself, so maybe there's a different standard they go by.

[IndyGirl]

My insurance agent has no problem with my making candles or selling them.