Soy very first Pour, Is this Frosting?

[warmvanilla]

I'm still trying to figure out what "frosting" and "wet spots" are.

From this image, is this frosting? Or wets spot?

If it is, then I think I'm pretty sure I know what caused it.

When I first opened my gift and started using the candle making kit, I had

no experience, whatsoever and had not found this site yet.

I was reading only from the instructions that came with the kit. So, I was pouring at around 160, but bringing the candles into a colder space to cool

so the cats would not jump up on them.

A little over a week, the candles from that pour look like this:

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/warmvanilla_2007/wetspotsfrosting.jpg

After getting some advice here, I made sure I was adding an ounce of FO (had only been using 2 tablespoons, lol) and I kept my jars inside the kitchen cupboard. Both are scented with Warm Vanilla Sugar. I just like playing with the colors, no matter the scent. I don't have many scents to test anyway.

By the way, these candles cracked really bad up top. Yuck!

Getting better? Second time pouring looks like this today:

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/warmvanilla_2007/soywarmcupboard.jpg

Throwing cold, but trying to wait another week to test hot throw.

They seem to only have discolorations at the very top of the jar and the very bottom of the jar. The jars were not warmed up.

Still feeling the Christmas spirit, I wanted to try to get a color of a Christmas bow.

But the wick isn't very centered. :undecided

This candle has 1.5 ounces of fo and very heavy on the dye. Mixed in black with burgundy to try and get a rich wine color. Apple Jack and Peel.

Making sure this time that I warmed the jars to 150, had pouring and cooling area at least 79 degrees.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/warmvanilla_2007/soywine.jpg

This is 100 percent soy, nothing blended in.

So, it must be really important to have a warm space to pour and let the candles cool down slowly?

Will those of you are experts at candles tell me if the candle is pretty or there's problems with it? I don't see any discoloring compared to the other two images.

[Candle Makin Momma]

The second and third pics look really good!! Frosting is what is on the bottom of the jars in the second pic.

I am not sure what to call the first pic though!

[warmvanilla]

Lol! Thanks.

They're horrible! Very cracked and looks like clay. Almost crumbles.

This is a more close up image of the one that is frosting.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/warmvanilla_2007/closerfrosting.jpg

[Candle Makin Momma]

Yep that's frosting. But it is not too bad.

I started out with the hex jar too

[chris77]

how big is that jar that you put 1.5 oz of FO in? and for clarification, did you put 1.5 oz FO in a batch and pour in more than one jar, or did the whole batch go into the 1 jar?

[Luci]

I like those hex jars, too. It's one of the few that I haven't cursed too much with the wicking.

I think your colors look great. Do you use a liquid or block dye? From the image on my screen, they are beautifully vivid.

[Sharon in KY]

The first is frosting second looks very good but the third is perfect looking. To keep the wicks straight I use two craft sticks (kinda like popsickle sticks with slits cut, rubber banned together on one end. Slip the wick in and pull tight, the slits will fit onto the jar top. Don't forget to attach the wick to the bottom of the jar with glue tabs, hot glue or silicone calking. lol

[Erin Lea]

You mentioned that your first candles were poured at 160 (I think). Are you still pouring @ 160?

The burgandy color is very nice! I'd be interested to see a photo of these in a couple weeks (if you haven't burned them up! hehe) and see if the frosting/wet spots have stayed away. I think your having minimal frosting on the turquoise candle is excellent! Plus, it's 100% soy so don't get all crazy wanting an absolutely perfect looking candle. Some will disagree (saw a thread a couple days ago discussing whether having frosting was appropriate) but this is the nature of this wax and I, for one, do not mind when it rears its ugly head.

Good job!

[warmvanilla]

how big is that jar that you put 1.5 oz of FO in? and for clarification, did you put 1.5 oz FO in a batch and pour in more than one jar, or did the whole batch go into the 1 jar?

Sorry. I put in 1.5 oz to exactly 1.0 pound of soy wax (flakes)

The dye is blocks. It seems I only need to shave off a very little to get a rich color, especially when I put a very little black in with it. Just a few shivers, actually. I'm amazed at how concentrated and easy it is to use.

I was only putting in two tablespoons of fo to a pound of soy when I first started. I read from the instructions that if I did not have a scale, I could use that measurement. Of course, there was not a throw hot or cold at all.

The samples that came with my gift had 1.0 ounce bottles of warm vanilla sugar. It smelled (in the bottle) a lot lighter than the Apple Jack and Peel, so I tried going 1.5. Today, almost one week later they smell wonderful cold. I just cannot wait to test the hot throw. But sadly, my wicks are not that great, so I won't be able to really test it.

The jars are called 6.5 oz classic jars that came with the kit.

It seems the warmer you can have your pouring and cooling in a space, the prettier soy becomes? It's almost velvet smooth.

Thank you for the feedback.

[warmvanilla]

You mentioned that your first candles were poured at 160 (I think). Are you still pouring @ 160?

I should post what happened to the tops of those first pictures. Very strange.

Yes, I'm still pouring at 160. My kit's instructions said between 140 and 160, so I try to stay on the high end of it. I double check with two therms. One is a candy and the other is digital.

What I started doing (with the last picture) was stir continuously until I reached 160. In other words, From about 180 to 160, I sat in a chair and stirred with a big wooden spoon. Then poured into the warm jars.

I'm not sure if it makes a big difference, but I figured since I had to wait 20 degrees, may as well keep stirring. And that produced the burgundy candle.

I will post it again in two weeks if you want...I have three candles because the 1 pound of wax makes 3. So, I'll save one.

[Erin Lea]

LMAO...I'm just picturing you (faceless person) sitting in a chair waiting FOREVER for the wax to cool...hehe...that is a fruitless process. You probably don't need to stir continuously until it cools but don't forget to stir really well to incorporate the FO and I always stir well before I star to pour.

I pour much closer to 100 degrees---the slushy stage. Pouring at a lower temp seems to alleviate wet spots, frosting and bumpy tops for me. Of course, you're likely going to get wierdness going on once you've burned your soy candles, but strange looking tops doesn't stop them from smelling great!

[geekrunner]

Actually your candles look great for your first effort!

The first two look like they've been test burned, or topped off. The white stuff is indeed frosting, and there are wet spots (but others have already pointed that out). Your room temps are definitely a factor, the warmer the better. The only difficulty I see you will have is getting your coloring consistent from one batch to another, since you are shaving off of a dye block. Either way, your colors are outstanding! Sometimes careful wicking may prevent post-burn frosting, but that takes alot of time, and wicks, and may not be totally avoided. It depends on how hot a wick you use, how hot the MP gets, and how slowly it cools post burn.

Carry on noob! geek

[warmvanilla]

I was so proud of this pour. No frosting. No wet spots. 100 percent soy.

And the color is so soft and pretty.

But!

Look what happened after I burned it a few times!

I decided to not give up on c3 and try another FO. This time, baby powder.

The cold throw was so pleasing, I could not stand to wait for a cure time.

So, I burned after it sat for about an hour.

Melt pool great. No soot. Hot throw GREAT!

Only thing is wick issues. I had a really high flame shooting from it after about two hours. Blew it out, trimmed and burned fine again.

I have to keep trimming the wick really small, and it will work.

Otherwise, it mushrooms like crazy after an hour or so. There's no hang up. Just this mushrooming issue and after burning, there are wet spots and a bunch of frosting. :undecided However, the tops remain so smooth and creamy.

[Erin Lea]

I don't notice a significant jump in wet spots after my candles burn. Wonder if your wick is a little large and is causing the jar to get really hot. However, don't worry about bumpiness after burning--it's just how it is. If you must avoid this, I suggest you stop using soy. I think they look fantastic--the color is great and sooo smooth! Remember that soy users are used to a unique appearance! Great job!!!

[geekrunner]

You probably will not totally avoid the post-burn frosting ring, that will require educating your customers (if you choose to sell) on soy's little quirks. In the computer world, this would be documenting a bug and calling it a "feature." From some informal surveys I've conducted, and they are highly unscientific, a candle's looks are not nearly as important as smelling good, lasting a long time, and is reasonably priced. Most of us here at the CT board are perfectionists, and want the best looking and performing candle we can make, but we also know that some things cannot be avoided or prevented. We have to weigh the advantage that maybe gained by achieving perfection aganst the time it takes to achieve it. Also, we cannot control how the candle is used, and the environment in which it is burned. We can make the best looking candles, with no frost, but if the candle is stored in a cold area, it may frost up and look unattractive, but still burn OK. All we can do is document those little quirks and educate our customers on them. IMO if someone is going to take issue with the cosmetics of a candle after they buy it and burn it, they probably are not going to be happy with much of anything, and I would refund their money and get the candle back.

I'm rambling, sorry! :embarasse

geek

[warmvanilla]

Thank you for the compliments guys.

I do not plan to sell, Geekrunner, but I have two very special people awaiting candles. My grandad and My grandmother have "placed their orders."

I was so excited about my candle making kit I received for Christmas, and told them about it when they called. My grandmother loves candles as much as I do and she wants me to make something vanilla scented. My grandad wants something citrus, like oranges.

I'm very happy with just making tarts for my own needs, but they are not really familiar with using tart burners. So, I'm trying to make something for them as gifts using the 8 oz jars that came with my kit. Testing and testing because I want it to be safe for them and also pleasing and beautiful.

They're my true motivation for not giving up on container candles (soy).

And it's a challenge, so it's really something fun to do when there's nothing else to do! I'm having a good time.

I'm worried though. From what I've read and from advice I've received from others...that vanilla is a really hard scent to incorporate into soy wax. So, I'm going to try blended it. And the citrus scents, I'm hoping do not smell like fuel.

I was amazed at how well the baby powder threw in 100 soy, without a cure time. I wish I had the patience to let the soy perfect itself while curing, but I only had one jar left and poured the rest into heart molds and it was already smelling so good!

You guys are right though....Soy is going to do what it's going to do, I think. I've burned a WW collection and some of the same things are happening to it after burning!

So, I guess once I'm sure my 8 oz container is safe for my grandparents, I'll send it to them. Hopefully they won't mind waiting until I feel comfortable with it. I'm planning to order different wicks and test them in the same container with one vanilla and one something citrus. The high flame has me really worried. It only happened first burn. The other 4 burns seem pretty good, but I have to trim the wick really small. Smaller than usual.

I tend to ramble too!

Erin- I don't sit and stir the wax anymore, lol. It was kinda funny when I think about it.

[Henryk]

Hi,

If I am interpreting your pictures correctly, and I have no idea how long you burned that one hex candle, it does look like the wick is too large for that size jar/wax/scent combo. I can tell where your melt pool was, and IMO, its pretty deep - and right at the point below is where your post-burn frost line appears. That will be more noticeable in dark-colored candles. Plus, if you do really long burns, or if your wick is too hot for the system, that glass and wax gets really hot - and that causes that frost line to appear heavier. Also, everything I've read, the hex jars hold heat more so that others because of the smaller opening on the neck.

You look like you have really have progressed very fast though. I would definitely wick down (You shouldn't have "a really high flame shooting from it after about two hours"). The mushrooming - candles, and soy a bit more so, mushrooms, nothing can be done about that. However, testing and choosing the correct wick size and type, and not over loading with FO will REALLY help with mushrooming.

HTH

[warmvanilla]

Hi,

If I am interpreting your pictures correctly, and I have no idea how long you burned that one hex candle, it does look like the wick is too large for that size jar/wax/scent combo. I can tell where your melt pool was, and IMO, its pretty deep - and right at the point below is where your post-burn frost line appears. That will be more noticeable in dark-colored candles. Plus, if you do really long burns, or if your wick is too hot for the system, that glass and wax gets really hot - and that causes that frost line to appear heavier. Also, everything I've read, the hex jars hold heat more so that others because of the smaller opening on the neck.

/quote]

Hi, Thank you for your reply. I burned the candle for at least 5 hours, first burn. But, that was after I blew it out and trimmed the wick after about two hours. Re-lit it, and let it burn about 3 hours. So, five all together including the brief re-lighting.

I used the only wicks that came with the kit which were Eco 10. I was thinking I should wick down but the Eco 8's are out of stock.

This is what the candle looks like now after burning it a few more times at about 3 hours max. I guess I have not been taking good notes on burn times and MP, so I'm really glad you pointed this out.

Tonight, I'm going to burn it again and see what the melt pool does in what amount of time. If I have enough of a candle left to test that!:embarasse

I've spent hours and hours each day testing the same jars with the same wick, until I ran out of supplies (fo and jars)

I can remelt the wax and clean out the jars to reuse, but I have no fo!

And it's kinda making me feel anxious. I'm too addicted already and want to pour pour pour all the time!

[SDM]

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this already or not (I scanned through the postings pretty quickly), but it looks like those jars are filled almost to the top. I would try pouring only to where the jar starts to narrow at the top. Not going to help your frosting issues, of course, but I have had some wicking nightmares when pouring a jar too full. I also found out that once I changed the brand of liquid dyes I was using, it helped with some of the frosting issues I was having (I don't use the same soy as you, but I do use soy). I'm still new and learning, though, so use the advice accordingly!

The colors are very pretty! Good luck and have fun!

[Juggy]

The burgundy candle is lovely! I had alot of frosting pouring at higher temps until I tried pouring at 95-100 and it is a big difference. I have a question about heating the jars for everyone out there. Do you attach the wick and then heat the jars (my wick started to melt) or wick it after warming?

[warmvanilla]

I was not sure how far to fill the jar up to. I stopped when hex design ended.

I'll try pouring less into the container.

This is exactly two hour burn with what I had left of the candle.

The flame is growing again, as it usually does after this amount of time.

Unless I blow it out and trim it really short, this is what happens!

I'm not going to trim it, just let it do whatever it does.

Right now, it's smoking! It appears to be burning very very hot. No sooting, but the flame almost reaches to the tip of the container. It's throwing scent like crazy, does not smell like smoke but it looks very unstable as I can see smoke in the air. The scent is strongest now and I'm seeing tiny bubbles inside the mp.

I do have a draft where it's burning, and I'm keeping it here to see what happens, since this is where I first lit it.

The melt pool has remained the same it seems since I first lit it two hours ago. Any ideas what's going on? I need to wick down, right?

I wish I could capture the smoking from the flame. I did not trim this time. I left it the size that's normal and what I think my grandmother would be burning it at.

[Bill]

It looks like you need to wick down to me. My problem is wicking up, so go figure lol!

I have a question about heating the jars for everyone out there. Do you attach the wick and then heat the jars (my wick started to melt) or wick it after warming?

I always heat my jars first and then attach the wicks. The jars are usually not too hot to touch and isn't a problem but they can get hot quick so be careful!

[warmvanilla]

I was able to get a wonderful shot of the eco in action! Curling! Not exactly sure what else it may be doing, lol. Mushrooming? Clogging? These are things I don't understand yet.

This is a four hour burn exactly. And everything is melted!

Flame was dancing...but there's a ceiling fan on low. And one thing I've noticed is that when the flame got out of hand, it settled itself back down again. Could this be because of the ceiling fan and the draft?

The wax is so hot, and there's still scent throwing from it, just not very strong now.

I think it's time to blow this one out! One thing is for sure...this IS a clean burning wax!

I'll wick down next time. Thanks for all the help everyone. My grandparents won't be getting one of my candles for a very long time, lol.

[Erin Lea]

haha, I'm glad you don't stir, stir, stir, and stir endlessly anymore! I agree with everyone that you should wick down. Try wicking down one size and see what happens. You're doing fantastic though! That is definitely a CLEAN burn!

As far as the heating the jars question that was asked, I heat my jars with my heat gun so I put the wicks in first and then I use my heat gun on the outside of the jars (I keep moving the gun around the collective jars all in a line) until they are warm to touch on the inside. This way the wax on the wicks stays put!

[Henryk]

PLEASE wick down

Also, and don't take this the wrong way, but if you are getting that much soot on the jars with only 4 hour burns something is wrong. (I assume you are doing the standard 1/4" wick trims before each burn?) I'm talking about that pic of the lone hex jar with the flame extinguished with the wax level 50% down.

From your many pics I'm guessing that the sooting starts with the wick as it gets lower into the jar. The flame starts getting crazy because your jar is hotter at that point, and there is less oxygen for it. You are compounding the situation by using the hex jars with a smaller neck than the rest of the diameter of the jar. They are nice jars, but harder to wick. I'm curious as to how your flowerpot container is doing - that should be more forgiving. I would say, that unless you HAVE to use these jars, get containers with straight sides - no necks, no tapers. You should have a much more uniform burn from start to finish. I think it would help to have jars of this type when first starting candlemaking. I've just been doing it for three years or so now, but even now, I rarely will use jars that don't have straight sides

I'm not real familiar with eco wicks, but you have a large melt pool down at the bottom of that one pic and it seems like the whole wick is getting dangerously close to the glass. Perhaps try a stiffer wick - a cotton, small hemp, or even a zinc (in that jar) would be what I would consider if a smaller eco still gives you that problem in your wax/jar/fo combo. I've never had an LX do that either - even at the bottom of the jars. Wick down would be the first thing to do.

Final things - you have to tell your grandparents to trim the wicks also. You can make a near perfect candle, but if its not burned right forget it. Also, no drafts of any kind - ceiling fan, windows etc. Again, you can make a candle that throws hardly any soot, but walk by it and cause a draft and you'll probably see the flame dance and throw soot - this is for ANY wax - soy or not.

HTH