Pleas Help "In search of a descent scent throw"

[malibu76]

Hello everyone,

First off I want to take the time to thank anyone who can give me some advice as far as the Fragrance Oils go for Candle Making. I and a beginner, and I am a bit discouraged with my first Candles not having a good Scent Throw.

To fill you in, listed below is what I used for my Container Candles and where I got it.

I purchased my supplies from NATURESGARDEN.COM

I used the Joy Wax that they sell, along with the Soy wax. I didnt mix them.

I used Zinc cored wicks, size according to their reccomendation depending on what size container I was using.

I used several different Fragrances including Amaretto, Apple Cinnamon, Cappuccino, French Vanilla COFFEE, Hazlenut Coffee, Hot Fudge Brownies, Love Spell, Mulberry, Muscadine.

So anyway, I made my candles according to their instructions as far as temperatures to add Fragrance, and pour the candles. I just dont understand it. I mean if some of these fragrances had a good scent throw and some didnt I could understand that, but so far my candles have had very little smell. If you smell them cold there is just a very little scent. If you smell them while burning, you can smell them some if you put your nose almost to the flame. The only time you can really smell the Scent is when you are pouring the scent into the hot wax!

Hey guys and gals, please help. Something has to be wrong. Since I am following Natures Garden instructions , using their products, I would think I would at least hit and miss and get a couple that smell decent. Right now I feel like I am making scentless candles.

Hey thank you for taking the time to help me,

Jimmy Overcast

[MichelleOH]

How much fragrance oil are you using per LB of wax?

[cindym]

Hey there, you might get better answers if you post in the veggie section of the candle discussion area. Lots of soy users there that I am sure can help you out. Good Luck.

[Meridith]

There is a thread in the natural section for scents that rock in soy. Its well worth the read. Also, zinc wicks don't really do well in soy - they aren't hot enough. Some people do use them but you might want to consider trying other wicks. Sometimes a change in wicks makes all the difference. Good for you for jumping in and trying first:). You will get this if you stick with it. It's frustrating but not impossible. Good luck.

[aswan01]

Soy has a cure time to develop full fragrance. If you didn't wait at least a week, 2 weeks on some scents, before burning that is your problem.

Another good tip with soy or soy blends is capping the jar as soon as it solidifies. That helps hold the fragrance in as it continues to cool slowly and to cure (or at least that's what I've been told & it does seem to help tremendously).

[Meridith]

She's using Joy wax too. Joy wax is not supposed to need a cure time like regular soy. Its a soy paraffin blend. I tested it some time ago and found that my candles threw the next day.

edited for typos.

[mizbizzyb]

1. Did u purchase any other types of wicks to test like LX, HTP's, CD's? You may get a better throw with those because they burn hotter.

2. How much FO per pound did you use? You may have to increase the amount or decrease it.

3. Did you put any additives in the wax (I know it is a blend, but some people add things)?

4. How long after pouring did you burn the candle?

5. Did you let the candle burn for awhile, leave the room (like step outside get some air) and come back in? It could be a case of the Candle Nose (we need a candle nose smiley!!)

These are a few starting tips to check. Good luck with it, it will come after countless hours of testing.

[wookie130]

I would definitely try a different wick. Zincs have never worked well as far as throwing scent in soy...CD's and LX's are much better for this task in this wax.

Also, they do need to cure. I have some soy jars I poured last Saturday, and between my raging candle nose that was overwhelmed by a million FO's, and soy being soy, I can now open the jars up on Wednesday, and get a great cold throw. I usually wait for a week or 2, depending on the fragrance.

Really, you shouldn't have too much trouble with any of NG's FO's...they're exceptional, and I've found most to work great in soy. You should always add FO's at 175-180 in soy, even if the directions for the wax advise differently. The wax needs to be hot enough for the FO to bind with the soy wax polymers...then I stir the daylights out of it, and allow it to cool to the recommended pouring temp. Adding scent at too cool of a temp with soy can truly give you a weak throw.

[smart tart]

Wondering what size jars (and how large the opening is) you are using? Also, how big of a room are you attempting to scent? Is there air conditioning, fans, etc in the room you are burning in?

I have used many of NG's scents with great success.....And I use zincs almost exclusively with no problems with hot throw.....

Try burning your candle in a smaller closed room (like bathroom) to see if you are able to smell anything after a couple of hours of burning

Are you able to smell the scent out of the bottle (oob)?

Just a few of my thoughts for troubleshooting.......Good Luck!

[Monica]

When I used Joywax I found little hot throw using zincs. I like the cotton wicks..hotter burn..great throw. I use NG FOs all the time with great success!

[wookie130]

There you go...time to possibly test some different wicks!

[mindy5140]

I haven't used Joy Wax in awhile but my advice would be to let them cure for a couple days. I still have some candles I made almost a year ago with that wax and the hot throw is awesome. But I used Hemp wicks in my containers, yes they have a mushroom after being burnt but I can't beat the throw I got with them.

Good Luck,

Mindy

[malibu76]

Hey everyone, sorry its been a few days and just got a chance to view you alls replys. I will write down some of the specifics on how I am making my candles and supplys.

Ordered Supplys from Natures Garden

I am making container candles, and have ordered different size Zinc core wics accordingly to their suggestions on the size of the candle.

I havent used any other wicks because NG suggested the Zinc Core.

I have mainly used the JOY WAX, because they suggested it as a very good blend with all additives in it, great for container candles, and "Suppose to have good scent throw".

On the Joy Wax, I have been using 1 oz Fragrance Oil per lb. of Wax.

The Soy wax I used 1.5 oz per lb. of wax. Again, I have mainly used the Joy Wax, but on my second order, since I was having a problem with scent throw, I decided to try some Soy Wax, to see how it did. No better.

I have not added anything to my waxes.

According to NG, 24 hours cure time, which I have been doing.

I have tried my candles in some small rooms and some larger rooms. I understand that it will take more candles in a large room. But really even in my bathroom, not alot of scent throw. Now there were a couple scents that did ok. But most of them had hardly any throw hot or cold.

I have been heating my waxes according to NGs directions, as well as adding the fragrances at their suggested temps.

I thank all of you for replying, and I am eager to hear more of your suggestions, I will figure this out, one way or another,

Jimmy Overcast

[Michi]

I don't use soy wax now but when I was testing it waaaay back, I noticed that it DID indeed need a "cure" time, a week to two weeks sometimes.

Also, from all I've read not too many people working with soy, use zinc wicks, they use cottons, hemps, htps, etc. those all burn much hotter which soy needs to burn properly.

Are you getting a full melt pool (melts all the way across jar) while burning?

Did you take MizzBizzy's advice and leave the house for a few and come back and see if you could smell it??

Every NG FO I've used (in paraffin) has thrown really well for me, so I'm sure it's not your FO's although some may not work as well in soy or soy blends I don't know.

You definitely need to get a few different types AND sizes of wicks and test those out with the same scents same wax etc.

When I first started it took me FOREVER to find the right combination of wax, wick, fo, jar etc. to get a good throwing candle. It was frustrating but very rewarding in the end.

[mizbizzyb]

Hi Jimmy,

Order some sample packs of wicks. A different wick can make a world of difference. Some folks get great results from zincs...but not many. I've been testing a soy blend very similar to the Joy wax and tested the HTP's, LX and Premier wicks. Depending on the jar, I use the LX and Premier wicks.

Good Luck...Keep us updated.

BTW - just because a supplier has specific instructions does not mean those are candle law - use those as a guide and tweek it to your likings. I really think if you try different types of wicks you will get better results.

[mizbizzyb]

what jars are you using?

[malibu76]

Hey MBB, and everyone else, thanks alot for giving me a hand. So it sounds like most of you suggest trying different wicks. So as far as mushrooming wicks go,any thoughts on them? I wish that the wick suggestions on NG were right. I just dont have the money to buy a bunch of wax, wicks, fo's, ect to try different combinations. Not to mention, then if it doesnt work out, either your stuck with the candles or you can melt them out, but that is alot of work, not to mention, you already have FO's in the wax.

So right now I have some Joy Wax, and Soy Wax onhand. I have a couple 16oz bottles of FO, and I bought 6 samples, which now are wasted, because I have poured them and cant hardly smell them.

As far as jars go, I really have all types. I have a couple jars that hold about 1 lb of wax, and I have been puting 2 or 3 wicks in them, the opening is fairly big. I have alot of smaller jars with small openings. I havent been using votives, so most of the jars are around the size of a coffee cup and some bigger.

As far as the melt pool, some have melted all the way across, and maybe 1/4 deep. What is the desired melt pool for the best scent throw?

So as of now I have Zinc core wicks. If you all dont mind tell me what type I should use with my Joy Wax, and based on all of the other info I have given you maybe you can point me in the right direction.

Thanks again so very much,

Jimmy

[mizbizzyb]

Skip all those jars and focus on one size and type container. Master that before adding something else. Usually jars have a name, like balmoral, hex, etc. Do you know the name of the jars at all? And the size like (ie) 8oz balmoral, 10oz hex, etc. This will help us give you some direction.

As far as wicks, try CD, LX, HTP or Premier to see which would perform better for you. There is also the Eco wicks, Hemp wicks, etc.

[asheebeans]

I've been using Joywax since it came out AND using zincs and never had a problem with scent throw.....my candles are super strong and I have never had a single complaint about them being weakly scented. (I've actually had a complaint or two about them being *too strong!* LOL) Hmmm....I'm trying to think what else could be the problem. Are you weighing your oils, or measuring them out by volume? I pour candles and cap them soon after pouring. (Don't know if that really makes a difference fragrance-wise, but it cuts down on my sinkholes! LOL) Are you pouring into over-heated jars? I did that once and it seemed to cook off some of my fragrance. What jars are you using? I've gotten great results out of 4 jars that I have tested, and I don't deviate from those. (Trust me, I tested a BUNCH of others that gave me just awful results! What a pain in the ar$e!) I can't remember all of the fragrances you said that you purchased, but LoveSpell sticks out. Now, LoveSpell is super-stinky same day and by next day it is ready to run me out of my home! I am thinking *maybe* part of the problem is that you have a case of candle nose. Put the candles away and don't make any new ones for a day or two. Then go back and give them a whiff, and have the coffee grounds ready as well. I don't know how many times I have complained that a candle smelled too weak and I gave it to someone to smell and they looked at me like I was nuts! This is the time of year that it happens, too! Ahhhh.....busy season! LOL The time we need our sniffers the most, and they are fried-out on fragrance! Good luck to you! Testing can be frustrating but sooo worth it in the end!

[LynnS]

I agree with Wookie.Different wicks.Cotton core is what I use with 100% soy.Throw is great.People tell me my candles throw good but also the tarts throw throughout their house.

Sounds like you are a beginner so don't think candle nose yet unless you have burned other candles for sometime.I have been doing candles for almost 4 years and starting to get candle nose.I keep my computer room door shut and not getting the throw under the door as strong as I used to.

LynnS

[Michi]

I just dont have the money to buy a bunch of wax, wicks, fo's, ect to try different combinations. Not to mention, then if it doesnt work out, either your stuck with the candles or you can melt them out, but that is alot of work, not to mention, you already have FO's in the wax.

Believe me, we've all been in this same position!!

This is not a CHEAP hobbie or a get rich quick business. It takes a LOT of money and time and energy to get a good candle.

I wouldn't even want to add up just how much money I've spent so far (after almost 3 years at this). I do know, that I've tried 6 different waxes, almost every wick out there, and have TONS upon TONS of candles that I've remelted-some still sitting in my cupboard.

I don't really think of it as wasting, but a necessity to getting a good burning/smelling candle.

I suggest you read read and read some more over on the veggie wax and general candlemaking sections of this board.

Over there you'll get a lot more responses to your general questions about wicks, jars etc.

Like MizBizzy stated the supplier's suggestions on wick usage is just that, a suggestion. What works for them or anyone else, may/may not work for YOU.

As far as mushrooming, I use zinc wicks almost exclusively and deal with the mushrooms on a daily basis, I'm not really sure what you're asking, but as long as they are trimmed off, there is no problem (for me) that I can see.

Keep at it and you'll get it, but it's not gonna happen overnight.

Good Luck

[Fern-Marie]

What a coincidence.

I just got done testing some Joy in a tea and votive.

After the tea, I fired off a note to NG. The suggested wick size, and the only tea wick they sell for the Joy is hideously too big. Smoked, fumed, and generally dangerous. The melt pool of the tart was over 200* !! This is so not even close. I am disappointed, to say the least. If they are going to suggest and sell a wick for their exclusive product, then the suggested wicks ought to damn well work, especially when they sell just the one t-wick.

So, my suggestion to you Malibu, is a smaller wick, which they do not sell. Candle Science has two smaller tea wicks and a wider variety of the zincs.

I did have better luck in burning properties with the TL 25 (tealight wicks), and Joy. However, the CDs and Zincs are the wicks NG advises for this particular wax. I did not have any luck with LXs with this wax, and frankly, I do not like the way the CDs burn. Hence, my jumping in with both feet and purchasing all of their zinc sizes. Can you hear the names that I am calling myself right now?

Also, tested a votive, 2 oz size, second attempt, second sized wick, no scent throw. Again, the suggested zinc wick is clearly too big. I knew when I opened the package that it looked wrong, but went ahead because it is a suggested wick for the application.

I have two jars with two different sized wicks curing. I will be testing those tomorrow. I will gladly let you know the outcome.

Also, I am keeping the FOs at 6%. I have other buddies here who have tested at higher %s and the lower seems to work better. So, don't add more FO.

I like NG, and I have a good deal of respect for them. Excellent products and Customer Service. This is not typical of them. But, boy, they need to re-think the wicks that they offer.

I'll be back at ya soon, hopefully, with positive news.

Fern-Marie

[Jane42]

I feel your pain! It can be frustrating...but also very exhilirating when you get it right (at least that is what I have heard...lol).

Alot of people suggest (if I understand correctly) pouring your jar without putting a wick in....then drilling a hole and testing one wick....if that doesn't work, you just pull that one out and try the next one. That way you don't feel like you have wasted the whole thing.

I have been known to melt the jar down, bring it back up to temp, and repour. Not sure that is a good idea, but I never remember to do the "temporary wick". Also, it changes so much during the burn, what may look like a wick not working catches up midway and does fine.

When we needed to try a different wick than we had, but did not have enough money to order a whole sampler of a different style, I asked on the "classifieds" if anyone was willing to sell me a couple to test with. That is an option also. People are very generous and helpful. If, after your research, you feel you would like to try a different wick, email me and I will see if I have a couple to send you. Many helped me out and I would like to carry on the tradition.

Good Luck!

[Fern-Marie]

Thanks for that great idea Jane. I'd forgotten that little trick was even in the world. DH found me a piece of steel that is the width of my wicks...ought to make nice holes! I poured last night the way you suggested.

I also poured without dyes, and guess what, the no scent thing, and the fuel smelling thing....gone!

I am going to test different wicks tomorrow in that non wicked jar and see what happens. Keep your fingers crossed for me.

The teas and tarts were fantastic. Man, was I getting nervous. New wax for me, thought I'd sunk myself. I finally noticed that everything that I had done that failed testing were darker colored.

I'm hoping that I'm back on track.

Fern-Marie