464 and Frosting

[LMauk]

Some time ago, Herb at Alabaster gave me a sample of the 464 wax. I had been using the 415 for a couple of years with good results. Used KY125 prior to that, but when Alabaster opened up a place a mile from my house, I couldn't turn down the savings in shipping expense (about $15 a case).

I tried the 464 sample and was very pleased with the results. Ordered a 50-lb. box and have been wrestling with it ever since.

Can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. The test with the initial sample went great. No frosting, nice smooth tops, good throw, good color, good melt pool, etc.

I heat the 464 to 175, sometimes 185, then add FO, color (block dye) and UV. I've tried pouring at many different temperatures from 160 down to the slushy stage. The original sample suggested a pour temperature of 140-145. None of these pour temps work for me!

I am consistently getting frosting in every batch. (I'm not talking about wet spots; I can live with those. I'm getting big blotches of tiny bubbles just inside the glass, sometimes an inch or two in length and maybe as high.)

I've tried zapping the jars before filling with the heat gun to warm them up; didn't help. I've shut off the A/C in my candle room to raise the temperature above 68 to about 70 or 72; didn't help. I've shut off the A/C and run a space heater to increase the room temperature during pouring and cooling up to 75 or so; didn't help.

I've tried omitting the UV inhibitor; didn't help. I've tried not using dye; the frosting was certainly less visible, but it was still there.

I run all my jars through a full wash and heat dry cycle in the dishwasher, so I'm confident the jars themselves are dry and clean. I want to be sure they have no moisture in them or any residue, dust or film as a result of the manufacturing process.

Right now, I have to zap every single container (mostly jelly jars with smooth sides) two or three times with a heat gun after cooling to release all of the frosting. This is very discouraging and quite time-consuming.

I'm not talking about hitting the tops with the heat gun to smooth them out. I'm spending several minutes on each and every jar, holding the heat gun near the jars and melting the outside wax enough for the air bubbles to rise to the top and dissipate. The candles cool and, next day, the blasted frosting returns, sometimes with a vengeance.

I've slowly worked my way through about 25 pounds of this 464 wax. I just don't have the time to spent 2 or 3 days melting and remelting candles, trying to get rid of unsightly frosting.

ALSO, during these melting/cooling/melting/cooling cycles, I've noticed that most of them have air pockets just below the surface of the tops, usually near the wicks. I've never had this be an issue with the 415 or the KY125.

Before I give up on the 464 wax altogether, do any of you have any suggestions? I've run out of ideas for fixing these problems.

Thanks.

Lois

[Breanna]

HI, There is a additive called Frostop I received from www.barnloftcandles.com when I had orderd my Pryme colors and it works wonderful with the 464. HTH:D

[pocha]

I initially tried the 464 with block /chip dyes and got alot of frosting...when i switched to liquid dye (specifically, EVO dyes) I essentially got rid of 90+% of my frosting issues. I would start there. Good luck!

[markcinna]

I also use the 464 and at the beginning everything was fine, but now I am getting alot of frosting just like LMauk. Everything you said above sounds like I could have said it. I have tried everything and I use liquid dyes. I haven't tried the Frostop yet but I really prefer not to use additives in my candles. I also could use a few suggestions. I live in Kansas so I have to live with the ever changing weather.

[Holly]

I do not use the 464, but I use a soy that tends to frost. Weather will play a big role in the frost department. I can make candles in the summer and hardly get any frost but boy in the Fall and Winter....watch out. Now that I am in the shop I have to go colorless -- way too cold in the Fall and Winter. I have tried Frostop and it does work some, but I too would rather not use too many additives. I already use the Veggie Modifier for the tops and the UV. I did learn to embrace frosting to a certain point but now it is overkill with the colder weather and being in the shop.

When you made your first test candle it could have had better temperature conditions and maybe you used a different FO. I need to read over your post again to know if it was the same FO used. Different oils will cause different degrees of frosting and different color dyes will play a role too. I would give the Frostop a try and if you do not want to do that, you may have to either embrace the frosting or go colorless if no other change in variables work.

I have had to learn to live with the soy quirks, so I can enjoy the other benefits that it has to offer that I don't get from paraffin. But I must say that the quirks can drive me nuts. Hang in there, and I wish you the best in your testings.

~Holly

[geekrunner]

Soory to hear about your frosting problems

What I have tried and works, but rejected due to additional time and expense, was to preheat an oven to about 150, place your poured candles in the oven, turn off heat, and allow to cool very slowly in the oven. The colors turn out very nice, smooth tops, and no frosting! Depending on the FO and color, some frosting creeps back a little after successive burns, but it is not too bad.

Also I plan on offering uncolored candles for sale, and upon request coloring with pastel shades to minimize the bad look when frosting reappears.

geek

[Ron Meyers]

Have been pouring lots of KEEPSAKE jars lately and the 10 oz. frosts like crazy and there are lots of wet spots. The 16 oz. come out perfect. No frosting and no wet spots. I use C-3 wax and no dye. These are all for fundraising and I only offer the same 10 scents for both jars. I pour at the same temperature for both jars.

Does anyone think pour temperature could be the issue for the 10 oz. If so, do you go up or down with the heat? Appreciate any guidance.

Ron

[Lizziecandle]

Just tested (using one pound samples)the 464 and the 444. The 464 sample candles were fragrant and had no frosting. However, the tops were very grainey but the samples burned well. Then ordered several cases of the 464 wanting to save on shipping. The frosting from the newly ordered 464 was unbelievably ugly along with sink holes, voids and grainey tops. Even the white candles frosted. I use liquid dyes and pour soy cool but not slushy. After the fact, I learned that the 464 has a relatively low melt point 115 to 124. I believe the low melt point is part of the problem with the 464. The 444 has a higher melt point 120-125 and was somewhat better. Yet the 444 also had the ugly frost.