To Add Or Not To Add....

[Guest highflier]

I have a new wax that I have been testing for container candles. The manufacture says it will hold 8-10% FO. It has a great scent throw both cold and hot. I asked them if it has any vybar in the wax and they said it did not have any.

My question is this? I use 8% FO in most of my candles. Do you think it would be a good idea to add 1/4 teaspoon of vybar 260 to a pound of wax to help the wax hold the FO better and slightly raise the amount of FO the wax will hold.? This would be just for a safety precaution. I have tested candles with 1/4 and 1/2 teaspoon of vybar and it did not effect scent throw on any of the ones tested. Just trying to see everyones thoughts on if it would make for a safer candle.

How safe is it to use the max amount of FO the wax will hold. I do add my FO at 185 degrees to help it blend better.

Thanks for your thoughts and opinions?

Mike

[BruceCarvesWax]

Thanks for your thoughts and opinions?

Mike

Opinions? lol ok, remember you asked!

That's kind of backwards to the way I look at things. I only have 2 or maybe 3 scents that I have to use oil at the 8% level. Today at my show I had a display with 137 varieties of scented candles, and that's after testing well over 2000 scents. I don't look for a wax that holds huge amounts of scent, I look for strong scents that don't take as much to make a great candle. I deal with 23 suppliers to do it, but that's because I'm picky. I know the big manufactures can (and maybe do) sell you oils by the jug or metal can for $4 to $6 dollars per pound, but I dont think thats the right way to make a quality candle. I bet you pay much less per pound of oil than most of us, whats your average price per pound you pay anyway? (might help us figure out why your need 8% load) Now days I only give my tester scents one chance to pass, if it don't fill the house at 6.25% I don't carry it, but I do look for a stronger version elsewhere. IMHO 8% is getting too close to "red line" for me. We are talking about making a candle that will not catch fire and look like a sterno can when someone burns it for one of two days straight. Hey, I had a customer today ask for a few scents you might know something about! The wife told him to ask me and he mumbled about liking the smell of racing fuel, said it had a sweet smell to it... surprised me to know that. He also said he liked the smell of burnt rubber..not a regular tire, but a drag slick! Said its like the fuel, I smells very nice and wanted a candle made with those type scents. I think it might take a while to figure which supplier could help me on that one! Does racing fuel smell sweet and drag slick burnouts smell better then regular ones or do you think he's just smelled toooo much racing fuel himself? Bruce

[Guest highflier]

Thanks Bruce for your comments. I buy my scents direct from the manufacture and paying anywhere from $9-14 per pound. This is the 25 lbs pricing. This new wax I'm testing throws incredible, even better then J223, IMHO. I am just wanting to see if it would help to make for a safer wax by adding a little vybar to it. Also when I first started out I was making my candles at 8%. The candles are incredibley strong. We are fixin to make the candles with the new wax at 7.25% because they are so strong at 8%. I don't think that little bit of change in Fo will make that big of a difference in the smell of the candle, do you? I do know it will make for a much safer candle. And there are several of my candles we make at 6% because they are so strong. I am just wondering if it is worth the time to mix in vybar to further increase the safety of the candle to allow the FO to better mix with the wax. Like you said I don't want to be at the "redline" of the wax. Know question 7.25% with a little vybar makes for a safer candle. Who know maybe 7% is what I should try instead of 7.25%. I just don't know how much 3/4% or 1% decrease in FO will effect the candles. Have you ever been able to tell the difference in this percentage change?

I certainly do value your opinion. Because of the things you told me when I first started out it made me very cautious to make a quality candle.

The reason for all this is because I just had a company approach me last month that wants to distribute my candles. The are a manufactures sales rep company. They have 17 sales reps and cover 30,000 stores. One of there sales reps came in my store and bought several of my candles and took them home to his wife to test burn. She said they were the cleanest burning and strongest candle she had ever burned. Then he told me that the company he worked for was looking for a company that they could rep candles for. I just signed a 2 year contract with them to distribute my candles. Looks like the candles business is going to take over my pool store.

As far as your request there is a candle out there that smells like burning rubber, believe it or not. It does not have a burnt smell. Our car gets quit of smoke in the car when doing a burnout. Has a mild smell of a rubber tire. Almost reminds me of a tire store on a hot day. Also as for the fuel smell the company that I buy me FO from knew about my racecar and wanted to know if I could send them a sample of 120 octane racing fuel so they could try to dupe it. They had a customer that requested a sample also. It does have a semi sweet smell when burning. I never sent them any of it but if you want to buy some as well then maybe I need to send them that sample. Let me know if I can help. Thanks for all your help in the past.

Thanks,

Mike

[Brat]

He also said he liked the smell of burnt rubber..not a regular tire, but a drag slick! Said its like the fuel, I smells very nice and wanted a candle made with those type scents. I think it might take a while to figure which supplier could help me on that one! Does racing fuel smell sweet and drag slick burnouts smell better then regular ones or do you think he's just smelled toooo much racing fuel himself? Bruce

I also love the smell of racing fuel and burnt tires!!! Let me know if you come up with someone who has those scents... tried before to look for burnt tires and even ordered a candle that claimed to have that scent, but nope. Not even close. Nothing better than a day at the track with the smell of racing fuel and a fog of tire smoke!

Sorry to hijack...

[Guest highflier]

It sounds like there is a lot of people wanting these scents. I love the smell of burning race fuel. Don't care for the burning rubber as much. Although when strapped in the car there is nothing better then the smell. Means I'm fixin to make a blast at over 210 mph.

Mike

[BruceCarvesWax]

I don't know about messing with a pre-blend (if it's not straight wax). I guess you could try a little but I would think that if it is a blend and it can hold 8 to 10% oil I'm guessing there would already be vybar in the wax....?? Sounds kinda strange to me. I figured you were buying in large lots direct, but you sure miss out on some great stuff by not shopping other places. What makes a chef great? They dont just buy from one place, they cherry pick from many places to get what they feel are the best ingredients so they can stand out. I think if I were you I really would go with 7% and if it takes more, just tell the manufacture to reformulate for you and make it stronger. Might up your cost a buck, but it would be worth it in quality piece of mind and you pay less shipping since your concentrating the oil.

Burnt slicks dont smell like burnt regular tires? I sure know the smell of burnt tires from my younger days.... 71 rivi gs 455, 70 cuda 340 built, and 73 vette that came from a parts store owner that liked to load up the engine compartments of his cars. Dang I miss those cars, I even did the inside of the rivi with crushed velvet... installed by me of course.

Sounds like a sweet deal on the candle sales, glad its you and not me. Sounds like a lot of work! Bet your glad you have that hoss of a pouring system.

Hey, hows about a picture of your product? Always fun to see what others make and sell.

Take care, Bruce

[MommaD]

Opinions? lol ok, remember you asked!

That's kind of backwards to the way I look at things. I only have 2 or maybe 3 scents that I have to use oil at the 8% level. Today at my show I had a display with 137 varieties of scented candles, and that's after testing well over 2000 scents. I don't look for a wax that holds huge amounts of scent, I look for strong scents that don't take as much to make a great candle. I deal with 23 suppliers to do it, but that's because I'm picky. I know the big manufactures can (and maybe do) sell you oils by the jug or metal can for $4 to $6 dollars per pound, but I dont think thats the right way to make a quality candle. I bet you pay much less per pound of oil than most of us, whats your average price per pound you pay anyway? (might help us figure out why your need 8% load) Now days I only give my tester scents one chance to pass, if it don't fill the house at 6.25% I don't carry it, but I do look for a stronger version elsewhere. IMHO 8% is getting too close to "red line" for me. We are talking about making a candle that will not catch fire and look like a sterno can when someone burns it for one of two days straight. Hey, I had a customer today ask for a few scents you might know something about! The wife told him to ask me and he mumbled about liking the smell of racing fuel, said it had a sweet smell to it... surprised me to know that. He also said he liked the smell of burnt rubber..not a regular tire, but a drag slick! Said its like the fuel, I smells very nice and wanted a candle made with those type scents. I think it might take a while to figure which supplier could help me on that one! Does racing fuel smell sweet and drag slick burnouts smell better then regular ones or do you think he's just smelled toooo much racing fuel himself? Bruce

My husband TOTALLY wants that smell too. If he were awake, I would ask him the exact name of it. All the guys that four wheel and dune LOVE the smell.

[Guest highflier]

Bruce I'm dealing direct with the wax manufacture. Getting it for .68 per pound. Like I said it throws as good or better then J-223 or J-50 when I tested it against them. The guy that actually blends the wax was the one that told me it did not have any vybar in it. It is a one pour wax with less then a 1/8" dip after it dries. He said it he would hold 8%-10% fo without vybar. I was just wondering if it would be beneficial to add 1/4 teaspoon per pound of vybar to make for a better wax. It is such a small amount of vybar that it is only raising the cost of my wax by a penny a pound. Like I said just wondering if it would make for a even safer candle. What do you think?

I always appreciate your opinion. And using less fo and asking my fo manufacture to tweak the fo if it needs to get a little more throw was something I never really considered util you explained it the other day. I had a 30 min. conversation with him yesterday and he said that he would work with me in any way to make them a little stronger if need be. We looked back at all of our fo and there is no question that 97% of them would be just fine at 7% as opposed to 8%. There are a few like my sugar cookie and some of my lighter scents that we may have to do something. Right now we are in the process of remaking every candle again and testing the wicking for 7% fo and seeing how they throw at 7% as well. No question the candle business is alot like the racing business for me. ALWAYS SOME KIND OF TESTING GOING ON!!

Sounds like everyone is wanting the burn out and racing fuel smells. Guess I could send the fo manufacture my fire suit and let them smell it. Kinda has the burnout smell to it after a weekend of racing.

There is know question I could not and would not of signed a contract with a company to distribute my candles without having the Coogar machine. It really makes things easy. It is so acurate it is unbelievable. I promise I will get some pictures of the store and the machine soon.

Thanks again for all of your help,

Mike

[BruceCarvesWax]

Here is what I have found when I make my wax melts and throw in some vybar to help out on the beads of fo on the surface-> If I put a quarter tsp of vybar to 1# straight wax (like 1343) it gives a large amount of top ripple. I find that just adding 7 or 8 pellets of vybar will capture the scent and not give me a ripple, no sweat, no mottle. You never want to use too much vybar so from my findings even a quarter tsp would be way too much since you already have a single pour wax and are just looking to take the edge off of any excess oil the wax might not be able to hold. If you back it down to around 7 % FO you should be OK with out the vybar. Would be fun to send a sample of that wax in to be analyzed, I just don't see how it could hold that scent without some vybar in it.... unless he calls his vybar "universal additive". Bruce

[BruceCarvesWax]

AND... Im still interested in how that cougar thing holds all the types of FO you use. How many tubes can you have running from scents jugs? What quanity of scent can you have inside the machine? I know you can have several scents hooked up at the same time, but how many? If you have a ton of scents how do you switch out the scent and is there any loss when you change scents? Rember, Im from Missouri.. the "show me state", so I have to get a mental picture of things to better understand them . Bruce

[Guest highflier]

Here is what I have found when I make my wax melts and throw in some vybar to help out on the beads of fo on the surface-> If I put a quarter tsp of vybar to 1# straight wax (like 1343) it gives a large amount of top ripple. I find that just adding 7 or 8 pellets of vybar will capture the scent and not give me a ripple, no sweat, no mottle. You never want to use too much vybar so from my findings even a quarter tsp would be way too much since you already have a single pour wax and are just looking to take the edge off of any excess oil the wax might not be able to hold. If you back it down to around 7 % FO you should be OK with out the vybar. Would be fun to send a sample of that wax in to be analyzed, I just don't see how it could hold that scent without some vybar in it.... unless he calls his vybar "universal additive". Bruce

Bruce I thought the same things. We do get smooth tops on our candles. Tested them at .25%, .50%, and .75% per pound. But color kept getting lighter and lighter. So we backed down to 1/4 teaspoon per pound which is .19% per pound or .85 grams per pound. I talked to the man that mixes the wax and he told me that because of the straight pariffin wax they blend with this wax it didnt need the vybar. He gave me a 5 lb sample of a straight 120 mp pariffin wax and said I could use that as my vybar. Something about one being a normal and other types of waxes be a non-normal that the straight pariffin would do the same job as the vybar. That sounds like something TopofMurrayHill would know about. Any way I didn't want to argue about something I know nothing about, but went with the vybar because I know what it is.

Thanks again,

Mike

[CandleCouture]

Highflier, I sent you a PM.