Candle science questions

[candlehubby]

Hi all,

Now my wife went and done it. She dragged me into candles too. We goofed around with a couple containers that went pretty well. She was happy. But now the guy side of me is kicking in and I have to know "why" why things do what they do.

I've been reading alot and picking up quite abit. But these may still sound like candle 101 questions. So sit back and please don't laugh too much.

She/we started with IGI4630A Harmony blend container wax. It was listed by the seller for its superior properties. I guess I can't really agree but here is what we did. We stated out with the double boiler method with a pyrex measuring cup and a meat therometer. We heated the wax to around 180, mixed in die and poured into a heated jar. The wet spots were minimal. We started with a CD-12 wix and a 3 1/2 jar and a 3 1/2 hex jar. We got a good melt pool, little to no wax hanging on the jar. But we got soot, and smoke and more soot. We experimented with longer wicks and down to about 1/8 inch. But still soot. To me this sounds like incomplete burning, even though we had a full melt pool. Is this accurate?

We also tried a cd-10 and cd-8, but have the same results. Each time we used about the same amount of die. About 10 drops per lb. and cinnamon FO at about 1/2 oz. per lb. What effect does FO and liquid dyes have on burning. Do they aid in burning, or hinder? Also with all the soot and smoke, do wicks have different temperatures they burn at? And if so how do you determine the temp?

Okay, now on to the Pillars. Each one is 3 inches. I bought some para/soy blend from a really nice lady that has a shop near my office. I poured two candles, both with lx-18 wicks she recommended. One was 3x3 with about 1/2 oz of FO per lb. and no dye. The second was a 3x6 with about 12 drops of red dye and no FO. The small candle burns really well, smells great but bulges badly. But during a long burn I do not get a blow out. Now the second candle is tunneling but the flame never gets more than about 1/4 of an inch tall, and is very weak. the tunnel is about 1 1/4- 1 1/2 in. in diameter but there is no bulging. I wish I knew what the blend is but it is 50/50 ish. I like the wax because its hideously long burning, doesn't smoke at all on the good burning candle and cheap. But does the dye hinder the burning as well? Also how can I control the bulging in a para/soy blend? Before the bulge happened I had a nice 1/4 - 3/8 wall and it was curling in nicely and getting consumed, but now the bulging is starting.

I hope I didn't wear you out, but I think there are some good fundamental questions in there. I realize its all about testing. But I don't want to be shooting in the dark either. Thanks for all the help.

[Tess]

Boy you have been busy! First off welcome and boy you and your wife are gonna be busy. I cannot comment much since I don't use either waxes that you are using. Some wases just tend to soot more than others. If you are looking for a good all around wax I can recommend the J-50 or J-223. Maybe someone on here has used your container wax, and could tell you weather or not smoking is an issue with this particular wax. Looks like you two are doing well with trying things out, and have a good idea what to shoot for.

As for the pillars to be totally honest, I got lucky and never had a problem. I started pillars after I had been chandling for a while, and the first combo I tried worked. So I really couldn't tell you what causes the bulge or how to fix it. Someone will though. Search "pillar blowout" and you should come up with some dirt! Good luck to ya.

[topofmurrayhill]

I wouldn't venture to advise on your pillar wicking issues because I've never used a parasoy blend to make one.

Regarding the 4630 container, how long is it taking to get a full melt pool with those 3 wick sizes? Do they soot off the bat or after they're been burning for a while? Do the flames seem large?

[KFTS]

On the Harmony blend--some wicks burn hotter than others making them better suited for some types of wax but not others. I like CD for soy and mostly soy based blends as it burns pretty hot (not as hot as cotton though). Some waxes I tried CDs in sooted no matter what, especially the 50/50 blends. Other types of wicks worked much better. Zinc and LX are two that come to mind you may want to try. Good luck.

[Steph in tx]

I'm going out on a limb here....cause I've never used these waxes or wicks.

I did look up the IGI 4630A Harmony Blend Wax and see that's it a Paraffin Blend, but didn't notice what it was blended with. It also states that it has a low melt point.

I could be wrong, but I'm wondering about how many drops of dye you had to use. :undecided And is the cinnamon you are using, could it be a little heavy? Some fragrances need bigger wicks.

I use straight paraffin with additives and don't have to use more than 6 drops of dye for my wax for a dark color. My melt point is higher too! The dye does have something to do with the way the wicks burn, and so does the fo.

Now on to pillars. :tiptoe: Again I don't use this wax, so I'm only guessing. But you state that the non colored one has blow out. Maybe your wick is too hot for this one? Is the wick hole centered? The second one maybe the wick is not the right size for the dye added? Did you poke holes around the wick area when they were setting up? There are soo many factors. Continue to test different wicks, amount of dye and fo's till you find what works for you! Keep up the with the notes, so you know what worked and what didn't. Let us know how things progress!! HTH some

Stephanie

www.ezwicksys.com

[RobinInOR]

I'll take a stab - haven't used those waxes/wicks, so just from general experience what I would expect...

We got a good melt pool, little to no wax hanging on the jar. But we got soot, and smoke and more soot. We experimented with longer wicks and down to about 1/8 inch. But still soot. To me this sounds like incomplete burning, even though we had a full melt pool. Is this accurate?

Yes, incomplete burning, from a number of inter-related reasons. Maybe from the FO/color you mentioned below, or as simple as a draft.

Each time we used about the same amount of die. About 10 drops per lb. and cinnamon FO at about 1/2 oz. per lb. What effect does FO and liquid dyes have on burning. Do they aid in burning, or hinder?

Wicks work through capillary action. They draw up the wax to flame to be consumed. Lots of color, or lots of FO, or FOs with big molecules can get trapped in the wick and clog it. No fuel, smaller flame, cooler temps, more incomplete combustion.

Also with all the soot and smoke, do wicks have different temperatures they burn at? And if so how do you determine the temp?

The different materials of wicks also play a part in the temperture. Zinc wicks, with their metal cores, tend to burn "cooler" for their size. Paper wicks burn the "hottest". Cottons in the middle.

I bought some para/soy blend from a really nice lady that has a shop near my office. I poured two candles, both with lx-18 wicks she recommended. One was 3x3 with about 1/2 oz of FO per lb. and no dye. The second was a 3x6 with about 12 drops of red dye and no FO.

The small candle burns really well, smells great but bulges badly. But during a long burn I do not get a blow out.

Paraffin tends to stretch more than the natural waxes, so that's where the bulge comes from (instead of cracking and draining the melt pool). That's why you have to "hug" pillars, to get the walls back into control so the top of them can be consumed.

Now the second candle is tunneling but the flame never gets more than about 1/4 of an inch tall, and is very weak. the tunnel is about 1 1/4- 1 1/2 in. in diameter but there is no bulging.

So the only difference with this one was the 12 drops of color. Was it black? I've found that the LX wicks are really sensitive to clogging, and maybe the 12 drops of color were too much for that wick. I've never had much luck with LXs and 3" pillars. Especially with a blend - I don't think a LX18 can stand up to the thicker, larger size vegetable wax.

But does the dye hinder the burning as well?

Yes it can. Clogging again.

Also how can I control the bulging in a para/soy blend? Before the bulge happened I had a nice 1/4 - 3/8 wall and it was curling in nicely and getting consumed, but now the bulging is starting.

Hugging. Not burning for too long - keep it to a max of 4-5 hour burns before putting out, trimming wick, and hugging walls.

This is just from the experiences I've had with my blend - I use Calwax 10 in pillars which is a paraffin/soy blend, heavier on the paraffin.

[candlehubby]

Thanks for all the great info. For starters is doesn't sound like many people use the Harmony blend. There is probably a reason for that. I'll look into the J-50 or J223.

Is bulging on a pillar the sign of an inferior candle? Or is hugging an normally aaccepted form of maintance such as trimming the wick?

Tess, what combination do you use with your pillars to get your success?

To answer the question on how fast the melt pool forms is with the CD-12 the complete melt pool forms in about 1 1/2 hours. The CD-10 and CD-8 take a bit longer. What would be the recommended time for a full melt pool to form? Thanks for all the info, it definately helps you to keep trying and keeps you from getting frustrated. Thanks for all the help.

[reddog]

What is the http://www.frappr.com/candletech ?

Paul

[RobinInOR]

[ hijack ]

There were always so many threads started about "where do you live", that we joined up with the google maps service. So if you want you can see visually where people are, who's close to you or a place you travel too... Don't have to join anything, just enter the info you want to share. Kind of nice to have a visual

[ / hijack ]

[topofmurrayhill]

Thanks for all the great info. For starters is doesn't sound like many people use the Harmony blend. There is probably a reason for that. I'll look into the J-50 or J223.

Is bulging on a pillar the sign of an inferior candle? Or is hugging an normally aaccepted form of maintance such as trimming the wick?

Tess, what combination do you use with your pillars to get your success?

To answer the question on how fast the melt pool forms is with the CD-12 the complete melt pool forms in about 1 1/2 hours. The CD-10 and CD-8 take a bit longer. What would be the recommended time for a full melt pool to form? Thanks for all the info, it definately helps you to keep trying and keeps you from getting frustrated. Thanks for all the help.

The various waxes each have advantages and disadvantages, with adherents who have learned to work around one quirk or another and use them to best effect. For instance, J-223 is popular for various reasons but easily getting a flat pour in a difficult container isn't one of them.

Speaking of which, some of the stuff they put in container waxes to decrease shrinkage and increase FO load are kinda hard to burn, which makes them more prone to soot, especially if the wick is too big. Harmony melts the easiest of all the blends, so see what size wick gives you a full melt pool in no less than 2 1/2 hours (trim to 1/4 inch before each burn). People often go by an "inch an hour" rule of thumb based on container diameter. You can experiment to see what works best for you. A lot of mucking with wicks is normal.

Bulging doesn't sit right with me when it comes to paraffin pillars and you won't catch me hugging mine, but I don't know how that parasoy blend is supposed to burn. Normally I'd say it needs a hardening additive and maybe a larger wick, but I have no idea if the same thinking applies here.

[eugenia]

Normally I'd say it needs a hardening additive and maybe a larger wick, but I have no idea if the same thinking applies here.

My thoughts exactly on the additivve. I'd tried stearic. I find that my Rustics with lots of stearic don't tend to bulge.

e

[Trish]

I use the Harmony Blend and I know that a lot of people have smoke/soot issues with this wax. The one thing I have found is that you really need to use a smaller wick than you would expect.

I used to use J50 (great wax!) and when I switched waxes, I actually went down two sizes in my wicks with the same jar/fo.