No HT OR CT in 4636

[tmach]

Hi all! I’m a long time lurker, never had to post before bc the search tool has been my saving grace! But! I can’t find much on my (potentially) new wax, IGI 4636.

I tried searching the forum, but it seems my new wax isn’t very popular. I’m beginning to see why. I not only have no HT, but no CT at all. If it wasn’t for my post-it’s I’d have no idea which jar was which scent. 

I previously used soy 10 and while decent, I didn’t just ‘love’ it enough to justify the outrageous shipping costs. And I live right next to Lonestar as luck would have it! So I made it my personal mission to find a new wax from them. 

Since I know soy doesn’t throw as well as paraffin (& a great scent throw being my main concern, other than safety! Of course!) I figured I’d just go straight paraffin going forward. Why did I pick 4636 over something like 4627 you may ask? Well bc the ratings/reviews on Lonestar’s website, and the fact that I’d seen lots of troubleshooting posts about 4627, but obviously next to zero about 4636. If people aren’t coming here to ask questions, it must be “easier” (used loosely for obvious reasons) to work with, I thought. So 4636 it was. 

 

So here’s where I’m at:

10oz tumbler 3” inner diameter 

10% FO (3 from WWC eau de mer, lemon blossom and sea salt, and marine dew and wild lavender, one from north woods- South Pacific waters, and one from Lonestar- banana palm leaf) 

Wicks tested: LX 18, LX 16, LX 20, CD 8, CD 10

Heat to 190 (am I heating it too high?)

FO added at 185

Pour at 150-155

Cure for 3 days 

 

It LOOKS beautiful, but that’s it.  LX 16 waaay too small. LX 18 burns nicely, but left a little more wax on the sides than I’d like. I like to leave just a little on earlier burns. I like for it to gradually melt away over the life of the candle. LX 20 flame height was too big, it got smaller after a trim, but I had to trim it so low to get a good flame height that it didn’t really get hot enough after that. Both the CDs smelled like fuel or just like “something burning” in every scent. 

I also used the same FOs as above in IGI 4826 paraffin tart wax and I’m having the same problem. NO CT or HT at ALL. What on earth is going on? Coming from soy, I expected some improvement, especially in the tarts. But my other soy tart wax (GB 416 that I also get from LS was (is) knock your socks off awesome regardless of FO used. I’m just going back to that bc I see no reason to fiddle with this wax that isn’t working at all (the 4826).

That may end up being the case with the 4636. I’d like to continue trying since I got 20 lbs of it to test with, I want to give it a fair shot before I throw my hands up, UNLESS you guys already know this wax is garbage. 

I’m trying to be brief lol let me get to my actual questions. I’m just flabbergasted and have some potential theories? 

Okay, so first, since some FOs throw well in soy, and others don’t, can the same be said for  paraffin? As in the FOs I got from WWC threw “ok” in soy, but absolutely non existent in paraffin. Not even CT. Are there FOs that are only for, or better for natural waxes? I thought this bc after an online chat support session with WWC they said their FOs are formulated to be used at 10-12%. That’s too much for me. ESP at $72 (before shipping) on 16 oz (I know, I know, you don’t need to say it, believe me I already know.) They also said I should “try to add a little paraffin” after I told them I was using 100% paraffin. So I just let that go. I just think they’re are a bit shady in general, so I won’t be repurchasing from there, regardless. But since soy is so popular maybe FOs are being formulated more toward natural waxes than paraffin? Any thoughts or knowledge on this?

Second, the banana palm leaf I got from LS was the only one with CT and HT. Could it also be said that companies formulate their FOs to go in the waxes they offer? 

Am I clogging the wick with FO at 10%? The LX 18 worked great with LS FO, but as mentioned before, even the tart wax has no CT or HT even with LS FO. It just smells like wax, not even, just… nothing. I used 10 and 12% but 12 is my upper limit for FO I’m not using more than that in anything regardless. But the fact that 12% won’t even scent a wax melt is mind boggling to me when paraffin is supposed to be so much better. I’m just going back to my soy tart wax. 

So- wrapping up I swear.

Should I try a different wick series? HTP? Zinc? 

Or- should I just move on to a different wax entirely? If so, any suggestions? 

Thank you so much for taking the time to read this and I am grateful for any feedback you can provide.

 

EDIT: I do not use any dyes

Edited March 13, 2022 by tmach
Added info

[bfroberts]

Try lowering your FO % to 6-7%.  10% isn't necessary and can create problems.  I think LX 18 is reasonable with a 3" diameter container w/4636. HTP & zinc will also work reasonably well if you want to give those a go just to see.  
Personally, I've been underwhelmed with the WWC FO's that I have tried (albeit Ive only sampled a few), and it may be that they just aren't going to throw great no matter what you do. A longer cure may be somewhat helpful, but if they aren't performing in a tart, they usually aren't good performers in a candle either.  The wax itself most likely is not the problem, in my opinion. 

[tmach]

Thank you so much for your reply! Okay, that’s about what I was thinking since the melts just weren’t performing either. Glad to know everything else is looking good as far as wicking goes, changing the FO is the easier part to me. thanks again, I will change up the FOs this week and give it another go and report back!

[BenderSF]

11 hours ago, tmach said:

They also said I should “try to add a little paraffin” after I told them I was using 100% paraffin.

 

Sorry I can't help with your original question, but I just had to say, that quote is hysterical!  Great suggestion, WWC!  😆  

[tmach]

2 minutes ago, BenderSF said:

 

Sorry I can't help with your original question, but I just had to say, that quote is hysterical!  Great suggestion, WWC!  😆  

🤣 oh I know! I wrapped it up at that point, Thanks I’ll try adding paraffin to my paraffin 🤦‍♀️ 

[PhoenixFyre]

Had to dig to find my old testing notebooks for this one, tmach, lol. I tried out this wax, purchased from Aztec, a couple of years ago and used the same size vessel you're using - a 10-oz tumbler. Always did my FOs at 6-7% when testing. I tried out HTP wicks and paper wicks of various sizes. The plus to this wax was the nice deep color I could get with just a drop or two of liquid dye. However, I never could get the wax, wicks, and FOs to work well together on any sort of a consistent basis. I had a couple of successes with an HTP 104, but I had mixed the 4636 with some 2281 at a 70/30 ratio - the cold throw and hot throw were nice, but not nice enough for me to continue playing. Plus, soot and mushrooms always were a problem, and I just didn't have the patience to continue testing it. 

 

If you do more searching on this site, try different variants of "J50" or "J-50," if you haven't already, as I believe that's what 4636 used to be called. If I remember correctly, JCandleAttic used to use this wax and gave lots of great input about it. I think she used zinc wicks with it....? Give it a go if you want to research more, and hopefully it can steer you in the right direction. 😁

Edited March 13, 2022 by PhoenixFyre

[tmach]

52 minutes ago, PhoenixFyre said:

Had to dig to find my old testing notebooks for this one, tmach, lol. I tried out this wax, purchased from Aztec, a couple of years ago and used the same size vessel you're using - a 10-oz tumbler. Always did my FOs at 6-7% when testing. I tried out HTP wicks and paper wicks of various sizes. The plus to this wax was the nice deep color I could get with just a drop or two of liquid dye. However, I never could get the wax, wicks, and FOs to work well together on any sort of a consistent basis. I had a couple of successes with an HTP 104, but I had mixed the 4636 with some 2281 at a 70/30 ratio - the cold throw and hot throw were nice, but not nice enough for me to continue playing. Plus, soot and mushrooms always were a problem, and I just didn't have the patience to continue testing it. 

 

If you do more searching on this site, try different variants of "J50" or "J-50," if you haven't already, as I believe that's what 4636 used to be called. If I remember correctly, JCandleAttic used to use this wax and gave lots of great input about it. I think she used zinc wicks with it....? Give it a go if you want to research more, and hopefully it can steer you in the right direction. 😁

Wow! Thank you so much for looking! I’ll take a look at J50 search results as well, I honestly can’t recall if I searched that term yet. I have had good result with the LX as far as mushrooming and soot goes, no soot, and any mushrooming is so minimal it definitely falls within my acceptable limits. Like I would never change series if that level of minimal mushrooming was the only issue. 
I’m going to test once more this week with a lower FO load, and see how that performs. Otherwise, I’m feeling about how you did though, not sure I want to continue playing. Might give comfort or harmony a go. Leaning a bit more towards harmony at this point. We shall see! Thanks again!!

 

[tmach]

So I hung out at Lonestar talking to the staff and all putting our heads together and I wanted to run this by you guys if you wouldn’t mind providing your knowledge and feedback. So the 4636 has a melt point of 128, and to actually get this wax consumed, (even in burn 6+) I’m having to wick up to an LX 22. The LX 22 has been doing well on these earlier burns, leaving a wall of wax on the sides but not so much that I don’t think it wouldn’t later catch up. I guess we shall see! I’m just concerned it will burn too hot once it gets down lower in the jars. I’m also currently testing a zinc 51-32 (burn 4 today and wayyyy too much wax left, it will never catch up), an HTP 104 (also leaving too much wax but burning hotter). So they said (I’m laughing writing this bc this advice is the inverse of earlier advice given lol) to try “adding a little soy to my paraffin”. I chuckled when they said that, but it seems like a good idea? She recommended 70/30 paraffin to soy, & I wanted to get any feedback or advice you may have on this? The way this wax has been behaving makes me believe I could wick it appropriately for the jar size if I can bring the melt point down with the soy? Bc as it is now, I’m wicking up about four sizes and i just know that’s not going to work for long. Thanks in advance!!!

[tmach]

I’ve been traumatized! The HTP 104! This thing leaned too far over!! I don’t foresee myself testing with this series again, that was just too frightening. The wick was secured to the bottom, I should mention. 

I really liked the way the first zinc 51-32 burned, I didn’t have any soot at ALL, and only one little mushroom at the bottom of the jar. which surprised me. except it left too much wax on the sides, & had zero throw (same original problem), so I guess I didn’t really like it lol. Just another “unscented” candle. 

The first LX 22; it threw better (although not great at all) than the 16, 20, & 21, but as expected got too hot in the bottom of the jar. Still left too much on the sides, but a lot less than literally any other wick I’ve tried so far. But still a thin, thin wall of wax on the sides from top to bottom. 

So I also test burned a second LX and zinc without trimming, and all the positives went straight out the window. In about 15 minutes I had a completely blackened rim when I tested the untrimmed lx 22 and the zinc 51-32. Not just a little, but it looked like someone spray painted the top of the glass black. The flame looked like a blow torch. They were both a sooty smoking mess. I’m disheartened. 

I’m still curing my little blend as recommended by the lady at LS, and I will test that next week. I intend to use the LX 18 in that to see as it performed the best out of my tests, it just left too much wax. But I’m concerned about the untrimmed test jar. We shall see. But for now I’m not especially optimistic about this wax. I’m feeling like I may just go back to my regular wax, regardless of shipping costs. I already know it and it’s a decent wax, not in your face throw, but good CT and HT, and since I know it so well, it’s easy to trouble shoot (although it just doesn’t ever really give me trouble lol). This wax is very frustrating. But after almost a couple months of testing this wax, I’m losing patience with it. So back to my old wax I go lol. I just can’t justify the cost of using FO in a wax that you can’t smell, and there is next to no CT or HT in this 4636. I can conclusively state lowering the FO did not help at all with CT, and only helped sooting slightly, but did not give HT in the reasonable wicks that I’ve tried. There’s obviously a combo out there that works as people use this wax, but I just can’t get past the lack of CT. If someone picks up the candle to sniff and nothing’s there, then that’s that. It doesn’t matter if the HT is amazing bc they’ll never light it to find out.

In the meantime I’ll play with some other ones I can get locally, if I keep trying my hand at paraffin I’ll give 4627 or 4630 a go. I’ve heard good things about blending 4627 and 464, that seems like fun lol. But I think I can definitely write off 4636 for myself. Thanks for your help all that chimed in!