Beeswax or Soy for Flawed 4627 Wax?

[HorseScentS]

HorsescentS, to be perfectly honest I don't know. I have three candles going at the same time. I do smell something when I enter the room, but I don't have a clue where it is coming from. I was just so relieved to get the candles burning without causing a towering inferno and smoking so much, I figured I would deal with the HT later.

How do you like that gigantic flame on the HTP 126 when you first light it? The first time it happened to me, it scared the daylights out of me and it burned like that for about five minutes. Do I understand you to say that that's a characteristic of the HTP 126? They always start off with that huge flame?

The HTP 126 does make a big smokey flame for me in the containers I've tried it in so far, and I've never used it to wick anything because I can't get it to stop smoking like a chimney. I'm thinking it's not that compatible with 4627. But, who knows, maybe there's a container it would work in with 4627. Have you successfully used it in any of your containers?

[cynthia3030]

The HTP 126 does make a big smokey flame for me in the containers I've tried it in so far, and I've never used it to wick anything because I can't get it to stop smoking like a chimney. I'm thinking it's not that compatible with 4627. But, who knows, maybe there's a container it would work in with 4627. Have you successfully used it in any of your containers?

I have tried the HTP 126 in several 3-inch containers. Each time I got like a four or five inch flame that burned for at least five minutes. I made a video of it burning out of control. To me, it looks like a fire hazard and it is unsafe. I thought it was something I was doing or not doing until you addressed the issue. I would never give or sell anybody a candle that burns like that.

Why don't you post that question on the board to members to see if others have the same experience. It would be interesting to find out the results. You are very popular on the forum and a question from you would yield more responses than if I asked the question since I've only been posting for about a week.

What I can do and will do is contact Wicks Unlimited Monday or early next week and ask them if the wick should peform in that manner. I really think we should do both.

What do you think? Are you in?

[HorseScentS]

I have tried the HTP 126 in several 3-inch containers. Each time I got like a four or five inch flame that burned for at least five minutes. I made a video of it burning out of control. To me, it looks like a fire hazard and it is unsafe. I thought it was something I was doing or not doing until you addressed the issue. I would never give or sell anybody a candle that burns like that.

Why don't you post that question on the board to members to see if others have the same experience. It would be interesting to find out the results. You are very popular on the forum and a question from you would yield more responses than if I asked the question since I've only been posting for about a week.

What I can do and will do is contact Wicks Unlimited Monday or early next week and ask them if the wick should peform in that manner. I really think we should do both.

What do you think? Are you in?

I'm not popular, I just post a lot. Most of the others have way more experience than I do. You'll get just as many replies to your comments as anybody, just post the question in the General Candle Making section.

There are a couple of threads where we've discussed that the HTP 126 is bigger than the HTP 1212 and 1213, so they shouldn't put it between the HTP 105 and the 1212 on the wick charts.

[cynthia3030]

I'm not popular, I just post a lot. Most of the others have way more experience than I do. You'll get just as many replies to your comments as anybody, just post the question in the General Candle Making section.

There are a couple of threads where we've discussed that the HTP 126 is bigger than the HTP 1212 and 1213, so they shouldn't put it between the HTP 105 and the 1212 on the wick charts.

That's not very nice of you. No, the specific question deals with that huge flame immediately after lighting the candle with the HTP 126 wick, does anyone get the huge fire immedately upon lighting? Is that what you're talking about?

Come to think about it, I have a video that I made with my phone that shows what I'm talking about. If you'd like to see what I'm talking about to be sure we are on the same page, PM me your e-mail address and I will send it to you.

[HorseScentS]

That's not very nice of you. No, the specific question deals with that huge flame immediately after lighting the candle with the HTP 126 wick, does anyone get the huge fire immedately upon lighting? Is that what you're talking about?

Come to think about it, I have a video that I made with my phone that shows what I'm talking about. If you'd like to see what I'm talking about to be sure we are on the same page, PM me your e-mail address and I will send it to you.

What's "not very nice" of me? There's nothing in my comment that's not nice.

[cynthia3030]

You're right. It was an attempt at humoring you by your refusal to post the question, that's all.

[HorseScentS]

You're right. It was an attempt at humoring you by your refusal to post the question, that's all.

"Refusal"?? I was nicely encouraging you to go ahead and start your own thread about your question by kindly reassuring you that you would get just as many responses as I, or anybody else, would.

[cynthia3030]

+

"Refusal"?? I was nicely encouraging you to go ahead and start your own thread about your question by kindly reassuring you that you would get just as many responses as I, or anybody else, would.[/QUOT

I appreciate the encouragement. To me, "refusal" is a somewhat fancy word for "no."

The bottom line: You get the same end result.

FYI UPDATE: 4627/4794, 90/10%, 6% FO. I can't report on the throw other than I smell fragrance when I enter the room. The candles have burned about 16 hours nonstop. This is the second burn.

HTP-83 - container is clean, no soot, no smoking, flame is not flickering, flame is not burning too fast, flame is not burning too high, no hang-up. no mushrooming.

HTP-93 - container is clean, no smoking, flame is flickering, flame burning a little too fast, flame is a little too high, no hang-up, a little mushrooming.

LX-16 - container is clean except for cacked up black residue at top of container from wick, flame is not flickering, flame is good heigth, no hang-up, no mushrooming.

The containers with no FO and color continue to burn without smoking.

There is approximately 2 inches of wax that needs to be burned. I will burn without extinguishing the flames.

I will report results after final burn.

Edited March 17, 2013 by cynthia3030

[Zelda]

I am also using 4627 in 2.75" diameter jars, (changed from 3" tumblers because it was impossible to wick with just one!) and you said using htp 83" wicks worked for you, but what i'm finding is the jars get REALLY hot toward the bottom, but I'm scared with the smaller wick size I won't achieve a full melt pool, ever. My jars are 4" tall (the Libbey Crisa tumblers) so toward the bottom they are bound to get hot, but I think they were too hot. I also was getting some soot and alot of flickering flames towards the bottom, too. Now I'm testing the 73 & 62 htps and off the bat I say say the 62s are not going to make it. My worry is the 83's get too hot and the 73's will not ever get a full melt pool! I really don't want to test a new line of wicks, especially since htp's are the recommended wick for this wax (and I like them!) Last night my first burn with the 73 left about a 1/4" inch all around, I know a hang-up is ok on the first and second burns, (maybe even third?) I ask, is this normal? Is my wax "the bad batch?" I've had some of the weirdest results with wick testing with 83's burning hotter then 93's, etc... my 73 last night had a wider melt pool then the 83??? Thanks all!

Edited March 17, 2013 by Zelda

[HorseScentS]

I am also using 4627 in 2.75" diameter jars, (changed from 3" tumblers because it was impossible to wick with just one!) and you said using htp 83" wicks worked for you, but what i'm finding is the jars get REALLY hot toward the bottom, but I'm scared with the smaller wick size I won't achieve a full melt pool, ever. My jars are 4" tall (the Libbey Crisa tumblers) so toward the bottom they are bound to get hot, but I think they were too hot. I also was getting some soot and alot of flickering flames towards the bottom, too. Now I'm testing the 73 & 62 htps and off the bat I say say the 62s are not going to make it. My worry is the 83's get too hot and the 73's will not ever get a full melt pool! I really don't want to test a new line of wicks, especially since htp's are the recommended wick for this wax (and I like them!) Last night my first burn with the 73 left about a 1/4" inch all around, I know a hang-up is ok on the first and second burns, (maybe even third?) I ask, is this normal? Is my wax "the bad batch?" I've had some of the weirdest results with wick testing with 83's burning hotter then 93's, etc... my 73 last night had a wider melt pool then the 83??? Thanks all!

You shouldn't get a full melt pool until the 3rd or 4th burn session. Your glass is quite a bit taller than it is wide, so a full melt pool on the 4th burn session will be good. A burn session is 1 hour for each inch of diameter, so for your container it would be 2 hrs and 45 minutes, or you can round up to 3 hours.

It also depends on how full you're filling your container, because if you fill it too full there's not enough glass at the top to help trap heat so the wick has to do all the work and it will take you more burn sessions to get a full melt pool. The HTP 73 should work well in your container.

Also, how hot is too hot? If you touch the glass with a cool hand it will feel extremely hot, but if you hold your hands under warm or hot water first, the glass won't feel that hot, so how hot it feels can be relative. Like when you first stick your foot in a hot tub with 104 to 108 degree water it's so painfully hot you quickly pull your foot back out, but after a while you can get your whole body in that hot water and if feels good.

The glass has to get hot enough for the wax to melt off of the sides. I can't remember what temperature the National Candle Associate says is the max temp for the glass, but I think it's 140 degrees? Not sure about that though, so I hope somebody else here will comment on the max temperature for the glass. All candles get hot at the bottom, so if you get one of those thermometers that you can aim at the side of the jar and read the temperature, that's more reliable than trying to tell by touching the glass.

Edited March 17, 2013 by HorsescentS

[Zelda]

Thanks so much, Horsescents! You don't know how much it means to my sanity to read your comments! I'm finally getting the results i've been wanting in a candle and the only thing holding me back is wicking! I now feel like i may finally be on the right path.

Cynthia3030, best of luck and looking forward to hearing your results.

[cynthia3030]

These are the results of the 4627 wax with too much petrolatum (oil).

4627/4794, 90%/10% ratio, 6% FO, 2.75 inch container. I did two burns. The second burn was about 25 hours non-stop. Can't specifically comment on HT (most important aspect) because I had up to four candles burning at the same time. The CT was good though.

HTP 83 - container is very clean, there is no soot whatsoever on the container. The wick performed very good, it didn't flicker, the flame didn't get too high, no hang-up. There was no mushrooming or not enough to really matter. I did not trim my wick for the second burn.

LX16 - there is caked up soot or something black at the very top of the container that I think is coming from the wick, otherwise the wicked performed well, no flickering, the wick didn't get too tall or big. There is wax at the bottom of the container because the wick has that long neck with that safety stop. (I didn't mean to purchase those wicks because they leave too much wax in the container)

SUMMARY: The HTP 83 wick is comptabile. Of course I will repeat the test just to be 100% sure. As a matter of fact, for future usage, I think I am going to add about 10% of 4794 to my 4627 to decrease the oily nature of this wax.

Zelda, I finally found a compatible wick for the 3-inch diameter container using 4627 wax.

Thanks to all for your input and assistance in finding a solution. That just proves that two or more heads is certainly better than one.

Cynthia

[jeanie353]

Cynthia.....I think I'm going to try your idea of adding a little 4794. I only have a little 4627 left and it doesn't have any problems but I'm liking your results and my jars are 3" and 3 5/8". I was/am adding different percentages of 415 and do like that too.

Thanks for the detailed info

[ChandlerWicks]

Zelda, I finally found a compatible wick for the 3-inch diameter container using 4627 wax.

Hey Cynthia which wick did find that works with 3" jars? Thanks!

[Zelda]

Yes, what wick did you come up with because I think I tried them all!? I find it's alot harder to achieve a fmp if I use vanilla, chocolate or other "heavy" oils and the fruitier/lighter ones seem to burn quicker (= easier to wick!) I also add c3 to my paraffin, I was hoping it helped with wicking...

[jeanie353]

[

SUMMARY: The HTP 83 wick is comptabile. Of course I will repeat the test just to be 100% sure. As a matter of fact, for future usage, I think I am going to add about 10% of 4794 to my 4627 to decrease the oily nature of this wax./QUOTE]

Isn't this it or did I miss something?

[emilyspoppy]

[

SUMMARY: The HTP 83 wick is comptabile. Of course I will repeat the test just to be 100% sure. As a matter of fact, for future usage, I think I am going to add about 10% of 4794 to my 4627 to decrease the oily nature of this wax./QUOTE]

Isn't this it or did I miss something?

I think you may have missed the post; "Thanks for the advice, Dave. It worked!"

[ChandlerWicks]

Not sure, I think HTP83 is for 2.5" jar not the 3" jar.

[

SUMMARY: The HTP 83 wick is comptabile. Of course I will repeat the test just to be 100% sure. As a matter of fact, for future usage, I think I am going to add about 10% of 4794 to my 4627 to decrease the oily nature of this wax./QUOTE]

Isn't this it or did I miss something?

[jeanie353]

Looks like I missed the post. Time for a caffeine hit.

[ChandlerWicks]

I'm not sure if I missed something or not!

[jeanie353]

I'm not sure if I missed something or not!

Who's on first?

[emilyspoppy]

Who's on first?

Thanks for the "silly"! I needed that! I feel giddy!

My daughter just got told;

"NO CANCER!"

YEA!

[cynthia3030]

Cynthia.....I think I'm going to try your idea of adding a little 4794. I only have a little 4627 left and it doesn't have any problems but I'm liking your results and my jars are 3" and 3 5/8". I was/am adding different percentages of 415 and do like that too.

Thanks for the detailed info

You know what, I am going to try using more 4794, maybe 15% to 25% because it really eliminates that oily look of the finished candle when using only 4627. Personally I like the texture when the 4794 is added to the 4627. Now, I'm not sure what is going to happen with wet spots and scent throw. Will probably have to add more FO to compensate for the 4794.

[cynthia3030]

Zelda, I finally found a compatible wick for the 3-inch diameter container using 4627 wax.

Hey Cynthia which wick did find that works with 3" jars? Thanks!

ChandlerWick, I am burning LX20 and LX22 wicks. For some reason the LX20 is burning faster and the flame is more robust than the LX22. Go figure. I am very careful about keeping my wicks organized and in the riight sized compartments, so I am sure I didn't mix the wicks up. The HT is pretty good too, but again, I have two candles going at the same time. My containers are very clean with no soot or hang-up so far. I am using the metro/status 12.5oz containers from The Jar Store. I am on my second burn. The first burn was about 12 hours. There was minimum mushrooming and I had to trim my wicks before the second burn. I've been burning about three hours. Will let you know when the candles are done.

[cynthia3030]

[

SUMMARY: The HTP 83 wick is comptabile. Of course I will repeat the test just to be 100% sure. As a matter of fact, for future usage, I think I am going to add about 10% of 4794 to my 4627 to decrease the oily nature of this wax./QUOTE]

Isn't this it or did I miss something?

Jeanie353, I meant that I will see if I can duplicate my results. I don't feel that the results are 100% conclusive with only one test considering the nature of this defective wax. I hope I am making sense with that response. Let me know if you want further clarification.