Jena

NatureWax Elite-200 is all soy and in slab form.

I use C-3 and had been having problems with rough tops, frosting, & synersis. I tried everything that I could think of but couldn't get things right. With help and suggestions from Stella and Angie at Elevance (can't thank these two enough!) I think I've worked out all the issues. I'm still a novice after 5 years of doing this, but I believe that the issues i was dealing with were due to the change in climate. Everybody's conditions and formulations are different, but what worked for me is tempering the wax and increasing my pour temp by 20-35 degrees seems to have made everything alright. And now i can stop pulling my hair out and go back to the business of making candles.:smiley2:

Dan & CandleScience, It seems more often than not that manufacturers want to stick their heads in the ground and tell you that they don't see any issues with their products, and leave us to deal with it. I applaud CandleScience for helping out customers with bad products, both with support and willingness to accept bad products back. I only wish other companies (manufacturers and suppliers) would stand behind their products as you do. Keep up the good karma! Jena

Glad to hear a few people are having some success. Yes, the cooler climate will definitely help keep the bleeding in check. I didn't have any problems with bleeding when it was cold either. Pleasureridge, glad to hear you're not having the problem. Except for the bleeding, I like Xcel. I had asked Theresa at NGI if the bleeding is a characteristic of the wax or if I possibly just got a bad batch. She never replied, so I have to assume it's characteristic of the wax and switched.

I tried blending Xcel with 464 (blended 50/50) and still had bleeding. Still not acceptable. Has anyone had success using this wax?

Hi Craftmaster, If your post is for me, I am using the Xcel for containers. (sorry, I'm going to get on my soapbox for just a minute.) I had been using Advance and switched to Xcel because it has a higher melt point than Advance so I thought it would hold up better in the warmer summer months. Which I guess it does so long as you don't add any FO. I dropped my FO load down to as low as 3% and the tops still bleed profusely. I still have some inventory made with Advance @ 8% and they've been looking fine. Many people have been experiencing this same issue with Xcel and NGI is aware of the problem, yet continues to blame the problem on the FOs. I guess NGI feels it's better to bury their head in the sand and pretend everything is alright. So my experience and conclusion is that Xcel is not compatible with FOs. So for anyone making scented candles where the temperature gets above 80 degrees, then Xcel isn't the wax for you.

Thanks for the feedback. (It would be good if this site had individual posts for the various waxes where we can post reviews and work together to discuss issues we're having.) I feel the same as the two of you. The CT & HT of the Xcel is OK. Probably not as good as it could be since I had to cut my FO load from 8% to 5% to try and control the excessive bleeding (didn't solve it though). If I can keep the candles cool, the tops do look great. I'm going try blending it with 464 & 444 and see how it goes. While I really want to stick with soy, the frustration of soy has been getting me thinking about going to a parasoy blend. I'm finding that only about 10% of my customers really seem to care if the candles are 100% soy. Most want great looking/performing candles regardless of the wax type. I did a some looking around, and GG seems like it might be fun to try. Thanks for the tip! Whose wax are you using?

Thanks for the input, Soy327. Have you tried Xcel on it's own? If so, what did you think? I have some 464 (& 444) on the way, so I'll see how I do with the frosting and let you know. I'm going to try blending it with Xcel and see how that does. How do the GG candles do for you? Right now, I'm only doing container candles, and looking to try others.

For those of you using NGIs Xcel wax, I'm wondering how the wax is working for you (CT/HT, appearance, etc.). If you can please let me know the good and bad of what you've experienced. Thanks!

Thanks, Candybee! I hear ya on the parasoy. I've been thinking about switching myself. From what I've seen on this forum, it seems like 6006 is a good pre-blend. I'd considering blending my own as I see the advantages of doing that, but I'd prefer to keep it simple if I can. If I do blend my own, I won't be using NGI. I had tried 135 in the past, and while HT was good, I had a hard time overcoming frosting and rough tops. Maybe I could handle its issues better now after gaining the experience that I've had, but to be honest, I've grown weary of the inconsistencies in their (NGIs) products. One batch of wax would be beautiful, the next ugly. Once I had even made 2 batches of the same candles the same day, with the only difference being the batch of Advanced. And the difference in appearance was huge. I wanted to cry. I spoke with NGI and they always blame it on the FO or dyes, even though the only variation has been their wax. Maybe all manufacturers would have the same postion. Either way, I'll be trying another soy manufacturer, either as a stand alone wax or to blend. I had originally traded some HT for appearance, but if NGI can't deliver on appearance, then why use them? It seems like some people like C3 and I'm curious about GB 464. At this point, I'll try almost anything. In the meantime, I'm going to try adding beeswax and see if that helps me get through the Ex-Cel that I still have. Thanks again, everyone, for the tips and suggestions. I really appreciate it. :rolleyes2

Thanks for the feedback Sharon and Elfcat. Sharon, so the only factor that you're aware of was the addition of the parafin? No significant change in the ambient room temperature? Which parafin wax are you using? I wonder if bees wax, with its higher melt point, might be a natural alternative. Elfcat - yes it has been more humid lately (80%+), but if you're thinking condensation, I'm not sure. The Vybar reduced the bleeding and it's definitely oil leeching from the wax.

Has anyone else experienced bleeding with X-Cel? If so, what did you do to resolve it? As soon as my candles are subjected to room temperatures above 82-83 degrees, they break out with sweating/bleeding like you wouldn't believe. I cut my load from 8% to 6% and added Vybar 260 which reduced, but didn't eliminate the issue. I could cut the FO load even more, but I'm worried HT would be eliminated. Any feedback would be appreciated.

I used to use Advanced but was fed up with poor HT and inconsistent quality of the wax. One lot would be great, the next would be horrible. I tried a sample of X-Cel in March/April and the candles looked great, and the HT was OK (after Advanced HT can only get better!). Better HT, a higher melt point for the summer months and their "blueprint" blah blah made it seem like there would be better consistency between lots, so I decided to order a large quantity. Well what a mistake that was. Immediately after pouring, the candles look great, but after a couple of days curing and once the candles are subjected to temperatures above 82-83 degrees, massive MASSIVE bleeding. The tops are absolutely awful looking and non-saleable. I contacted NGI and their reply was simply that my FOs aren't compatible with X-Cel. (These are the same FOs that I used with Advanced at 3-8% and never an issue.) They offered no other suggestions, because as they see it, their wax is perfect and any issues are to be blamed on everything BUT their wax. I tried some FOs that they list on their website fragrance program that they say tested well in X-Cel. Those bled just as much as any others. Well I cut the FO load to 3-6% and added Vybar 260. This helped, but didn't eliminate the bleeding. I'm afraid that if I cut the load any more, I'll be back at square one - no HT. After the poor performance of their waxes and poor customer service, I'm dropping NGI and switching to another wax that I've been testing under all the same conditions and have been performing beautifully without Vybar and the HT is better than X-Cel. I've noticed that there haven't been any reviews of X-Cel on distributor website and wonder if their getting kickbacks from NGI to eliminate negative reviews. Sorry to be so negative, but I don't want anyone else to go through what I am. Has anyone else experienced bleeding with X-Cel? If so, what did you do to resolve it? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

I've been using liquid dyes in soy and haven't noticed a problem. Although there are other factors that can contribute to frosting as well.