jonsie

I've been playing around with soap crayons for awhile now hoping to make a viable product to sell. The moms and kids who have helped me test them have been very happy with them so that has been encouraging.

Basically I use clear M&P, a little bit of FO, and enough liquid pigment to allow the soap to 'draw' on the bathtub. The colors that have worked the best for me are purple, blue, and green. Red will mark, but not as well as these other three. So far they clean up from the tub and shower just fine. They don't stain the grout, the fiberglass tub, the tile, or the countertops.

However, if I let some blobs of this dry out on a white washcloth, and run it through a long warm cycle in the clothes washer, it comes out stained from the pigment.

Although my friends didn't comment on this (I don't know how nice their towels are, lol) I am really concerned about this. I don't want this to be a deal breaker

How would you handle this? Would you even attempt to sell these? How would you warn people about this?

Thank you everyone for such wonderful feedback!

I ended up going with veggie stearic. I made crayons with both bw and stearic and got slightly better results from the stearic.

Sorry! Jonsie I meant Celsius not degrees my mistake:)

Whew! I was worried there was an area of chandling that I did not know about, lol!

Are you talking about 200 F or degrees.

All my references to temperatures in this thread have been in Fahrenheit, and not Celsius (and both are in degrees, by the way). Hope that answered your question.

Horsescents, I can imagine it is confusing with a lot of conflicting information. I can't help but wonder why we haven't completely scared you away!

Higher temperatures are what I strive against, because the higher the temperature, the greater the safety risk. I started this thread because I want to accomplish my candle goals with as low a temperature as possible. (and by the way, Soy327 is right, I don't heat my wax to 250, lol)

To summarize what I have learned since starting this thread is that:

So it sounds like I'm stuck with the higher temperatures, lol.

Thanks everyone. Any other advice is always appreciated!

I'm considering using beeswax to harden up my M&P, and will be sure to list it on the label, but I was wondering if some people have a reaction to it?

One little boy that likes my soap crayons is allergic to bees, so that has me especially concerned.

Some of my recent experience with OnlineLabels.com:

OL713CL: Full Sheet Clear Gloss Laser. I tried using this in my HP Photosmart C7200 series, but it smeared and never dried, which makes sense since my HP is like an inkjet. So I use these in my Brother HL-2140 Black ink laser printer, and I am very happy with the results. They do not smear, and by all accounts seem to be waterproof (but I only tested with black laser).

OL713WI: Full Sheet Weatherproof Gloss Inkjet (not clear, but white) . I use these in my HP Photosmart and although it makes for an attractive glossy label, I can't say that they are 'weatherproof'. If I put a couple of drops of water on the label it seems to stain it. Since I am only using these on candles, I decided to try OL713WG as they are half the price of the Weatherproof, and now I am waiting for them to arrive.

I use clear glossy labels from Online Labels in my very cheap Brother B&W laser printer, and those don't smudge. Maybe the labels you have aren't made for ink jets?

It might help if I saw a picture of what you were talking about. What I am imagining is a piece of paper/cardstock left inside the candle container that the customer would have to remove before burning? Depending on the setup, it sounds a little like a torch risk in case the customer wasn't bright enough to remove the paper.

Of course I might be thinking of the wrong thing, so a picture would help.

Oooh, you've gotten me curious. And they are lifting images and descriptions from the same supplier that you and I both use here? Ouch.

BTW, when I was at my stepmom's house a few weeks ago, I found about 6 of my candles around her house. Apparently she had found one of my retail accounts and paid full price. Never asked me for freebies or discounts! Gotta love the woman, LOL!

What a wonderful person. That says a lot about her character!

Thank goodness it's a honeysuckle I like! I just received care packages from my MIL (in the U.S.) which included my Peaks order of Honeysuckle and a few other FOs. At some point between leaving Tennessee, and arriving here in Perth, Australia, the cap on the Honeysuckle FO cracked. Yup... FO EVERYWHERE. Maybe 1/4 of the 16 oz leaked out, and through the zip-lock bag it was in, and even melted some of the Polly Pocket toys my MIL had packed for my daughter. When the delivery guy brought the boxes over this morning, he was in a cloud of fragrance! And he probably will be all day, lol.

But I'm loving these FOs! It's my first order with Peak and they did not disappoint.

What I got:

Honeysuckle (nice, sweet, natural smelling... like the real deal)

Asian Sandalwood (nice and full)

Tall Grass (fresh, but more sweet than I hoped for)

Lilac

Genuine Leather

Gardenia (which seemed weak compared to the overpowering honeysuckle)

Plumera (smells fabulous)

Cannot wait to pour some!

ps......the bakery smells always smell stronger........blueberry muffin , orange chiffon cake, etc

Amen to that! At 6%, my Gingerbread and Sugar Cookie scents are my strongest throwers by far.

Candybee, thanks for your input. You mentioned following the manufacturer's recommendations for their wax, and to be honest, I am not sure what my manufacturer recommends since I don't see it on their website. I'll send them an email and ask them directly. But like you also said, there are so many variables, and the composition of the FO may play a huge role in the best temperature to add it to the wax.

In the meantime I went to my supplier's website, and read their 'How to Make a Soy Candle' guide. According to them, it's more important to add your dye at the higher temperature to give it as much opportunity to disperse with stirring. Then as your wax approaches pouring temperature, add your FO, again stirring to work it through the wax.

Another supplier recommended basing the temp at which the FO was poured on the FO's flashpoint: the higher the flashpoint, the closer to 185 F, the lower, then closer to 160 F. So it sounds as if FO composition does play a role and can be an indicator of when to add it.

Jonsie,

If you would like to make any molds for soap with silicons you have to make sure they're food grade silicone rubber. The regular silicone for casting resins and waxes usually "sweats out" some chemicals which I don't think are skin safe. But I do know that there are food grade silicon rubber for mold making.

What I have on hand is Smooth on silicone rubber. It's just a 1:1 liquid mixture. This ones good for wax casting and some other stuff. The finished product can withstand temps up to 400 deg. F. You can even pour low melt point metals in it to cast.

Dan

Thanks for the info, Dan. That is really helpful for me

Jonsie,

The programs are a bit involved and you would have to have a passion for computer graphics.

Of course, you can make your own with the right modeling software. That, however, is a discipline that is a bit more challenging than candle making.

As much fun as it would be to have one of these 3d modelers, it's completely impractical for us right now since we'll probably be moving from Australia to Indonesia within the next couple of years. Otherwise, hubby and I would totally geek over something like that.

Thanks for the links to the websites, those were fun to look through. I noticed some models were available in SolidWorks format, which is what hubby and I have experience with. As for my soap needs, they aren't all that complicated, and probably wouldn't need such a set-up. Basically I just want my logo embossed into a bar of soap. But it is nice to know these options exist.

You bring up some very good questions. I pour my soy at about 105 degrees (464 mix with xcel) and have very good luck with it nice smooth tops no additives. However, I am finding lately that I'm not getting good HT with some new FO that I read are killer for other people. I will be interested to see what others have to say here. I am going to be paying closer attention to wicking and lowering the point at which I add my FO. Thanks Jonsie for bringing up this thread.

Thanks, soy! Good luck with that FO. I'm interested in how it works for you.

and I really don't like waiting for my wax to cool down all the way from 175F to the 100s

===================

Patience, Grasshopper

That must mean you've been adding your FOs at high temps. And I'll state my question again... do you add your FOs at high temps because you read here that you should do it, or have you tried it both ways and determined on your own that adding FOs at higher temps gives you better HT?

When one adds FO (unless it's preheated) it lowers the temp in the wax anywhere from 5°-20°, depending on the temp of both liquids. No matter what temp the FO is added, what I find common to most methods is that they pour pretty quickly after the addition of FO. I think FO needs to be stirred into the wax for several minutes before pouring. Even though both are oils and both are liquid, it takes some complete stirring (not just doodling around a few times with a bamboo skewer) to thoroughly blend it into the wax.

I agree with everything you said here. Although I omitted the point about stirring originally, I believe it is critical.

I have added FO at higher temps (both for soy wax and palm wax) for many years with NO apparent loss of throw. I have also added it quite cool when I am pouring at cooler temps. No problem there, either.

I do NOT think this is an issue. I think that wicking and the properties of the FO and wax being used are more important to the ultimate hot throw potential of the candle than the actual temp at which it's added.

Thank you for your reponse. This is the kind of feedback I was looking for.

If I get a mould made, it would be for soap. I'm still trying to master container candles before doing anything other type of candle.

One of the tools that I have available is the ability to make three dimensional models.

Those sound so cool! I would love to have one just to play with it.

I've decided to drop my wax pouring temperature from the 160s to the 100s, and I really don't like waiting for my wax to cool down all the way from 175F to the 100s. So I wanted to ask this question:

Why do we generally add FOs at higher temps such as 175 - 185 F?

The explanation I have read a few times here is that the FO needs to be added at the higher temperatures to incorporate it into the wax. But I wonder, since FO is already liquified, and the soy waxes are well above their melt points even at temps such as 150F, why not add the FO then?

If you have tested numerous temperatures to which you've added your FO, and tested your CT and HT, and established that the higher temps create better-smelling candles, then I would love to hear about that.

If you haven't tested, but add FO at the higher temps because that seems to be the general advice here, then I want to hear that too. I would put myself in this category.

However, from my own limited experience, I have used the lower temperatures to add citrusy FOs so they wouldn't smell rotten, and I've had good results. I've also added EOs at lower temps (140F) and had great results too.

So before I embark on a great deal of testing, I thought I'd check in with y'all first.

TIA

Susan

Sorry to hear about your financial situation. Hope that things will get better for you money-wise.

As for the HT, you mentioned in your post:

I always use the max FO load too.

That might be your problem. Have you tried lower FO amounts, such as 6%? Not sure why, but many other people have noticed that when they try to max their FO load, HT takes a huge hit. And at lower %s, you'll save a lot of money too. Definitely worth a try, if you haven't already tested it.

I can see this will be an expensive hobby LOL.

Oh my, I think I just snorted wine up my nose...

Sooo, so true. But keep it simple to minimize expenses... one type of candle, one type of wax, and experiment with the wicks and FOs. See what it takes to master just one kind before taking on anything else.

Good luck!!!

In my hours of research (no direct experience here) I've read that the softer wood crackles more and that fo's and additives can make it crackle more.

Thanks Shanda, that is helpful!

Sounds like you did well! As for increasing crackle, I don't know how to do that either, but to be honest, I haven't tried. I have read that the additives like FO and dye help increase the crackle, but I tend to stick with what makes the candle work well for me. When I sell the candles with the wooden wicks, I don't promise that it will crackle, I just say that "they are known to crackle."

I have used several hundred pounds of 435 and 464 both.

464= LOVE the way you can pour hot (140 to 155), seems to pour up smoother .........HOWEVER it seems to be picky about finding FO's that have a good HT in it. (I seem to use bigger wicks)

435= HATED having to wait until cool (110) to pour, had alot of trouble with frosting and rough tops. HOWEVER, if you let the candles cure for a week, even up to a month, almost any FO from any supplier would have a HT . Yes it varied from soft to strong but rarely did I get one that wouldnt do anything. (I seems to use smaller wicks)

WIth 464 alot of scents I cant get to throw at all. But when I did find a FO that worked with it..........how easy and fast to pour one up and it looked great!

Results= I have no ideal which one I like better! lol!

That is wonderful information! Thank you so much.

It is way too expensive for me to get 435 over here, but I've ordered some cottonseed additive from Candle Soylutions. It can't get here soon enough!

I love all the prints, especially the swirls! What a great idea!

My 'Plain Container Palm Wax' comes in a solid 20kg chunk, and I found the best thing for it was an ice cream scoop