jonsie

Someone here (I believe it was Stella) mentioned that a candle is a system.

I remember reading that here before but it never really sunk in until now. I WANT to apply logic to this, I want candles to behave like a mathematical formula. Before I became a mom I was a mechanical engineer and I loved how nature could be described with numbers. I keep trying to make candles behave like a formula, and it's just not that easy!

I think the Acs wick probably produced a slightly smaller flame & so it would slow down the consumption of the wax & therefor burn longer.

You are a brave woman, taking corded wicks on... they have nearly cost me my sanity & I am envious you have had "saleable" success so swiftly!!!

Good on you

I think you are right, it is a smaller flame and lower consumption. I bet I could find an ACS that would work for my larger candle and probably get a longer average burn time. As for doing this 'swiftly'... lol, not sure about that It takes me about three to four weeks to zero in on a wick that does what I want it to do. Maybe that is too quick?

Jonsie, I have a question. Are you testing your candles with EOs or FOs? I remember you were having inconsistent results with your EOs...

I started off using wooden wicks in soy with FOs, but as people came to my market stall they wanted essential oils and could take or leave the wooden wicks. So I'm shifting from wooden wicks to what I call "corded wicks" which I guess are really just "wicks" (CDNs, HTPs, etc.). I've been calling them corded wicks to differentiate from the wooden wicks, and I didn't mean to make it sound like any kind of specialty wick.

I have had some inconsistencies with the Pink Grapefruit EO so I'm going very slow with that one. But so far things have gone well with Lavender EO and Lemongrass EO, and I'm slowly hacking away at Patchouli EO (I've got the medium done). I'm looking forward to getting started with Rose Geranium, but I want to finish up Patch first. And the wick that works with the Lavender medium is vastly different than the one for the Patch medium, and goes to show how each new EO is a brand new challenge.

Jonsie, do you keep notes? A spreadsheet? I'm sure you have Excel or Quattro Pro or something like that.

Sure do It is a massive beast of data. I'm just now realizing I could probably separate my research and testing data from my production data to make it easier on myself. And LOL about the 4th dimension, I feel the same way.

Hope that helps focus you, it helped me focus on what I was doing.

Thanks Eric, and thanks everyone. I realize I ask some pretty far-out questions that must drive y'all nuts, but I really, really want to understand and anticipate how these candles will behave. So when something doesn't make immediate sense to me like the burn rates of those two candles, you can bet I'll be back here. Just ignore me if I get to be too much

Thanks for checking, the wax is GW464.

It's true, so many factors are involved. For my two jars, the diameters are different, the depths are different, and yup, the wicks are different, so I'm now understanding assumptions can't be made on overall burn time.

Although the ROCs for each wick might have been different, maybe the ROC-to-volume ratio was very close for these two candles? I've never heard of such a thing, but when I consider it that way, I seem to understand it better.

Is it any wonder that I dream about candles and wicking. I think too friggin much about this stuff for my health.

I am slowly, bit by bit, learning about wicking, and the more I learn, the more I realize just how much there is out there that I don't understand.

I've been making candles for over a year using wooden wicks, so my wicking process was simplified to sizing the one type of wooden wick I used for the container and FO. If data such as ROC, Flame Height, Pool Diameter, etc. was ever published for the wooden wicks, I was never aware of it. So I've been blissfully unaware of other options.

Now I'm trying to offer my scents with corded wicks, and the process is slow. I have a large metro (270 g) and a medium metro (200 g) of the same wax/EO mix burning side by side this past week. The large had a CDN 16, and the medium had an ACS 5.5. Both lit and extinguished at the same time.

After 67 hours of burning, the large is DONE. In my limited opinion, it did a good job of not mushrooming (I never trimmed it), and of melting the wax and I hardly had FMPs, even after long power burns. Pretty much all of the wax is consumed although the container looks filmy. I would happily sell this candle based on these results.

The medium has performed just as well as the large with no mushrooming, minimal FMPs, consuming most of the wax along the container walls although its flame is smaller. I would be satisfied to sell this candle also. And it is still burning.

The fact that the medium is burning longer than the large is a surprise for me, and I'm trying to wrap my brain around this. I don't know of any published data on the ACS wicks so no help there. But I guess my question is this: is it typical for the large and the medium candle to burn for about the same length of time, or should the large burn longer than the medium?

That was cool! My brain can't comprehend how they spaced the spirals evenly, but that does look like a neat candle to have.

Also looks like a wooden wick they use for the second stage. And they expect the customer to trim it to the proper height, too. These people are expecting a lot of factors to work perfectly for them. That is one extreme candle! Good luck in the business

I checked NCS and saw that they carried CDNs up thru 30, so I have those on order. Hopefully that should take care of this candle

ACS has CDN 22 and 24 in stock, but I don't have them yet. I have tried ACS 9.9 in a large metro and it is tunneling. Is ACS 9.9 the most robust wick they have? I'm not sure what other kind of wick to try.

I found a box size that fits the 8 oz Status jar perfectly at Uline.com, but I cannot find a box that fits the 2 oz or the 12 oz. And I would prefer Kraft although I could use Black. I also prefer a lock bottom, especially for the 12 oz.

Anyone have any luck?

Thanks! This is what I'm using:

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/80107974

They never showed grubbiness for the times I used them, but when I found the rubbermaid containers and removed all the maxis and teas from the sorter, they stank! I had to wash them twice to get the smell out.

Funny thing about lids on candle jars. When I'm out shopping, I always manage to find my way to the candle section. LOL I'm always drawn directly to the lidded jars. And I will only buy one with a lid. I don't know why. I just prefer them with lids. However... once I get the jar home and light it... the lid rarely, if ever, gets put back on.

I know..... weird. ::: shrug ::::

Jo

Hahaha... that is me EXACTLY.

Now that I make candles and sell them regularly at our local farmers market, I HAVE to have lids on my candles for my own sanity. Otherwise, the blend of smells truly makes me gag (not exaggerating). I sell all my maxi and tea lights in Ikea drawer sorters, and I'd store them all together without sealing up each individual scent to save time in setup and breakdown. When I'd pull out my displays to set up, my stomach would do flips because the smell was so overwhelming, lol.

Eventually I found Rubbermaid-style containers that fit each of the compartments and that has made all the difference for me. It might take a bit of character away from the display, but I am much happier now.

It never occured to me to pay attention to the flicker of the flame in my testers until now. I have two testers from the same batch of wax, same jar size, only one is full and the other is half full. Both wicks are cut from the same pre-tabbed wick so they are both the same size.

The flame on the full container candle is nice and steady; the flame on the half-full candle is flickering like crazy, and both are set next to each other. Doesn't matter how I reposition them.

I understand different factors may be at work, with the greatest factor being the reduced oxygen in the half-full container causing the flame to dance.

My question is, has flickering ever been an issue for your customers? I have a friend who hates flickering candles, but she is very particular about lots of things, so I kind of blew it off, lol. But now I find myself wondering...

I think it is worth mentioning that I have made many, many purchases from the vendor here in WA, and a couple of purchases from the vendor in NSW. I have never entered my CC details via the internet for my WA purchases but instead had my card hand-swiped at their business. And I have not (so far) had any false charges show up on my statements yet.

My theory is that if you call the WA vendor and relay your CC details over the phone for future purchases, you shouldn't be as exposed. Just a theory based on my experience.

Y'all might be interested to see how this turns out. I almost ordered the UV Inhibitor from BCN last week and I was getting the same quote as Richard... $85 to ship 1 lb to Oz, a total of $125. I hunted around and saw that Cajun Candles was selling 1 lb and 2 lb tubs of UV-I for $15 and $27, but their shipping quotes were vague. I couldn't input my shipping info on their website since it was Australia, so no luck with that. I ended up calling them and working most of it all out using both the phone and email.

The ladies at Cajun Candles were extremely helpful and accomodating, and got my package in the mail that day. I paid $91.45 in USPS postage for Global Express Guaranteed (for the 2 lb tub), with a delivery date of this Friday. So now it is in the hands of the postal carriers to deliver as promised. But at this stage, I am thrilled that Cajun Candles went above and beyond to minimize the box size to minimize the postage, and get it out that same day.

Anyway, this how I can justify paying $91.45 in postage to send $27 in goods to Oz:

[1 lb = 453.6 g, 2 lb = 907.2 g]

Cajun Candles:

Postage: $91.45

UV-I: $27.00 for 907.2 g

Total: $118.45

Cost per gram: $118.45 / 907.2 g = $0.13/g

Ye Local Candle Supplier in Oz

Postage: $0, but I drive to pick it up

UV-I: $12.50 for 100 g

Total: $12.50

Cost per gram: $12.50 / 100 g = $0.125/g

It didn't take me long to decide if I wanted to pay an extra 0.005 cent per gram.

And keep in mind I paid the highest postage to get it here the fastest. Cajun Candles offers other flat rate boxes that generally take 2 - 3 weeks to arrive, but are a lot cheaper.

Now to wait to see how soon it gets here or if Customs seizes it as a suspected controlled substance, etc. And if the other suppliers haven't made their stock available and y'all need some, I'll gladly post it to you. This is enough to make 1600 lbs of candle wax, and that'll take me years to use up. Bart, if you are still interested, you are welcome to the first pound

I am dreading having to pull this back up and report just how wrong all of my calcs were.

The details are here: http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?99677-UV-Inhibitor-Stabilizer

Ugh.

I felt it was very important that I come back and update this thread.

I have received my UV-I from Cajun Candles and the "32 oz tub" of UV-I is actually 8 oz by weight.

I had interpreted their website description to mean that I was purchasing 32 oz by weight of UV-I, not volume.

I have emailed them regarding this and they confirmed that their 32 oz quantity is volume, not weight.

So those are the facts. I am withholding any new opinions I may have on my recommendation until after I finish discussing the issue with Cajun Candles.

But for now, I wanted to give a heads up to anyone who may be price comparing and assuming this is by weight.

Cool! Send me your details and I'll post it on Monday Yay! I found something I could send to you!

Happy to send it. I can send you the whole pound since I never used it and no plans to in the future. The story behind it is I ordered this back in April 2010 and had it sent to my Mother-in-law. She and I didn't know anything about flashpoints back then, so she repacked it along with other stuff and it passed through with no problems. So, full disclosure... this stuff is over a year old. Still interested?

Is it 9 or 13? Since I couldn't remember, I used 13.

A quick calculation comparing shipping 13 bottles of Black Cherry FO from CS to my SIL then to a receiver in Aus...

Doh! My calcs are based on 9 bottles, just to be clear, lol. The difference between the bottle price does get better the more bottles shipped.

I mentioned decanting because if I purchased 5lbs of an FO from a supplier I would be expecting the FOs to be in one container not separate?????

There are advantages to buying a larger size of the one FO because the supplier doesn't have to do the decanting.

I ordered 2500 ml of an FO from Bramble Berry and I expected it in separate bottles but it came in a big bag with a spout. Totally surprised me. Two options I'm thinking are: specify to the supplier that each 500 ml be in their own bottle, or, have my SIL ship it in the big jug and someone in Aus handle the decanting?

Hey guys,

sorry to butt in with an off topic to what you are discussing (though I have some comments on those as well) but this is extremely important if you buy goods from either ACS or NCS or NG using either your CC or a debit card.

Thanks for the heads up! I remember threads here at CT about the same problem but I don't know if they determined what was causing it. Please PM me any info you can provide.

Lol Susan I just made some Black Cherry candles...Geez it stinks also mixed it with some very vanilla (gag)cos I cant stand that and have half a bottle to try use up. They both smell slightly better mixed together...who knows how it will smell when I burn it.

How funny! I picked Black Cherry because both suppliers had it in stock and I could run it through their shopping carts.

Hey Tammy, did you need some Pink Sugar from Nature's Garden? I have some I could send you if interested. [edit] I just caught up with your other posts. Sounds like you are well set on NG scents [/edit]

Do the HTPs curl in a set direction? Seems I read somewhere that their curl can't be predicted. Is that true?

Jonsie that would be a good idea for your sister in law, but, the shipping with another $10.00 added makes the Large Flat Rate box over 60.00 ($64.95) USD and that just sounds plain scary to me, plus the shipping is a double up ie shipping from the supplier to your SIL and then again to OZ and the $10.00 handling fee on top. I assume we would be paying for the bottles and their shipping to your SIL for the decanting of the FO as well as the above? Packing costs ie tape and padding etc would also be our cost I imagine. There is a lot to consider for your SIL if she was to do large volumes of FOs from CS for example, its why I like co ops where the hostess has done all this before. They have space to hold the FOs whilst they are decanting and all the pumps and equipment required to do the decanting quickly and easily.

Also your SIL would need to adhere to the Flashpoint issue as well or the penalty for $10.00 fee is just not worth it. How would she handle breakages?? its a lot to consider and once payment occurs all that needs to be thought of. Good idea though for a stay at home mum if it can be done and of course, suppliers all start somewhere.

jo

You bring up some good points, Jo, and definitely worth considering. My suggestion that my SIL could handle FOs would not include decanting them; instead she would just be moving whole bottles into shipping boxes. If she needs to provide extra packaging for the FO, then she could itemize for her time down the road. When I suggested she could specialize in forwarding packages for candle and soap people, that was the extent of what I meant, packaging it for international shipping and accounting for flashpoint. She could also help with splitting a single shipment of items among multiple recipients.

I thought I'd run a rough calculation of shipping FO bottles but I can't remember how many bottles will fit in a large flat rate box. Is it 9 or 13? Since I couldn't remember, I used 13.

A quick calculation comparing shipping 13 bottles of Black Cherry FO from CS to my SIL then to a receiver in Aus:

14.99 * 9 = $134.91

Shipping to my SIL: 12.41

Package forwarder repacks: 10.00

Postage to Aus: 58.50

Total: 134.91 + 12.41 + 10.00 + 58.50 = 215.82

215.82 / 9 = 23.98 US per bottle delivered to your door

With a local vendor:

23.51 * 9 = 211.59

Shipping (to Perth): 18.16

Total: 211.59 + 18.16 = 229.75

229.75 / 9 = 25.53 Aus per bottle delivered to your door

If it's 13 bottles, it is a better value.

Still, not a considerable savings for that example, especially factoring in the 2-3 week delivery time. But if time isn't your concern, and you want more of a selection, this might be an option for some.

I would think that CS and any other holdouts would want to ship internationally considering the weak US $. Crazy that they haven't started offering it yet.

My sister-in-law is interested in forwarding packages for friends in Australia. I believe that in time she could develop herself into someone who specializes in candle and soap supplies. She is a stay-at-home mom and used to run her own eBay and pet supply business, so she is very organized about packaging and shipping. She could set herself up to receive a single shipment from a place like CS, and split the items into separate flat rate boxes to Aus. Of course, she would need very detailed instructions to go by, etc. At this point she is charging $10 per package forwarded, but if her service grows, her fees may become more itemized. There are plenty of other package forwarding services, but I think all of us (including her) could benefit if she can specialize in handling FOs, splitting shipments, etc.

Hey Tammy! Thanks for the link. I haven't ordered anything from them yet, and so I'll give them a look. And I'd love some of your melts! I'll PM you my address.

Thanks for the info!

3" in diameter, 2-3/4" depth (large status jar). Yup, soy. After about 10 hours of burning, I have 1/3" of wax on each side of the jar.

That should tell you something about the oil you are using.

EOs are highly variable in how they work in candles, even from the same supplier.

Yup, I'm going to assume it's the EO causing the trouble because I haven't had this problem with any other EO or FO before. Maybe with the new EO from the different supplier I won't have as much of a problem, if any.

Hiya Jonsie, I too have had this problem mostly with the ACS wicks. I dont know why but they just dont burn as well and tend to shroom for me. I wish ncs would hurry up and get in the csns so I can test them.

ACS annoy me because they are pure white and I can't easily see in which direction they will curl. But so far it is my wick of choice in one of my jars since its burn rate fell between CDN 8 and CDN 10. Hmmm... maybe I should have used a CDN 14 there? Ugh, these wicks are gonna be the end of me.

Jonsie, you're so close to Taiwan, and there are a lot of folks in your neck of the woods that deal over there, why don't you look into Chinese wax?

Hmmm, hadn't considered that. Where would I even begin?

I use a container wax GF/GB 435, it's 415 with cotton seed wax, pour into foil tart cups. Never had a complaint from anyone about the fact they do not pop out of warmers. I could never pour into molds for the amount I pour. Not being a small home operation. And I really like how my container wax throws.

Thanks, Sharon. GB 435 isn't available to me here, but I do have cotton seed wax as an additive. Now I have a great excuse to play with it.

When looking at Wicks Unlimited's chart on CDNs and comparing the ROCs, CDN 14 seems out-of-place. So if I'm wicking up from CDN 12, should I jump to 16? Not sure if I'm interpretting the chart properly.