Candybee

Great advice! Exactly what I was looking for. I think you two have saved me from wasting lotion. I also love the idea of storing in a ziploc freezer bag then cutting the corner to squeeze out the lotion into my containers.

Question; can I store the lotion in the ziploc bag then later add FO to it on the day I want to fill my lotion bottles? I assume I would add fragrance oil directly into the bag with lotion base in it, zip it back up, then massage the FO all around to mix it in? 

Also, can I use zipper/slider bags instead of zip loc? I often have problems sealing ziploc but none sealing slider bags. Slidder bags are so much easier for me to use and I see they also come in gallon sizes.

15 minutes ago, soylights said:

Sage and Cham is just wonderful!! 

Let us know what you think of WWW!! Excited to see if you think it's a good match for Mistletoe. Candle Cocoon has great customer service and wonderful quality. 

I am hoping to replace a soap scent with the Sage & Chamomile so good to know its a great scent. Keeping my fingers crossed that it soaps well without any problems.

I can't wait to try the WWW and see if its a good match for Mistletoe. CC had good prices and same day shipping for me so I am happy with that. Also, their shipping fee was very reasonable even though all my FOs I ordered were only 4ozers as that is the smallest size I can use for testing. Shipping only cost $8.99 for 5 - 4oz bottles.

I just checked and my order should arrive on Monday. I feel like a kid waiting on Christmas morning!

I just ordered the Winter Wonderland Whisper from Candle Cocoon. I have never tried their FOs before. I ordered a few others to try:

Winter Wonderland Whisper

Dewdrop

Sage & Chamomile

Surf's Up

Crushed Strawberry & Rhubarb

These samples will be for soaping but the WWW will be for candles. I especially am looking forward to the crushed strawberry & rhubarb. I want to mix with it with my fresh picked cucumber (CS) and maybe a little lime EO for something fruity, tart, and refreshing for my CP soap line.

12 hours ago, moonshine said:

I will keep you posted on the what they say about price and turnaround to get it 

I won’t hold you to it if it isn’t the same - I’m hoping for the best 🤞 and most definitely will at least throw it a melt to be sire it’s spot on 

I am now getting excited and anxiously waiting on trying this FO. So just pm me when I need to pay ya.

BTW-- I think I am also going to try the Winter Wonderland Whisper from CC? I think that's the supplier. Anyway, its exciting to think there may be a spot on sub for Mistletoe out there!

45 minutes ago, moonshine said:

Got a reply from PFO

they do have pinion pine - sales were low so they haven’t restocked it 

I am considering special ordering 10 pounds, she is getting me a price ….it’s a gamble because it’s been years since I used it but quality is definitely in their corner with the Moonworks fragrances 

if anyone would be interested in some let me know so I can see how to tip the scale here- to order or not to order 🤷‍♀️

I am so reticent to order an untried, unsmelled, and to me unknown bottle of pinion pine after the mistletoe fiasco. But you make an excellent point, the quality of PFO oils and their MW dupes is bar none. I have never been disappointed by any of my FO orders from them.

You can put me down for a lb. If I knew for sure I liked it I would go for more but the uncertainty of it is holding me off from ordering more for now.

12 hours ago, Marleigha said:

@Candybee I can’t confirm this 100%, but I heard Lonestar has one of the best patchouli fragrance oils.  I was told it smells the closest to the EO of any patch FO anywhere.  And not crazy priced!  Oh and also Fillmore…. Anyways, HTP!  

I haven't tried Lonestar but I have used Fillmore's Patchouli FO and stopped looking because it was the best patch FO I found and the truest to the EO.

Right now thou I am looking for the EO of dark patchouli and not a FO. The darker the better. I have a regular patchouli EO that I order in a lb at a time so it can darken over time. Patch just gets better with age. But am hoping to find a true 'dark' patchouli EO and was hoping someone here might know where to find.

I use mostly FOs from Fillmore, FB, C&S, JS, and Keystone.

I get a couple others from RE and CS but am looking to replace those due to either price, shipping costs, or reformulations not working. I love RE FOs but the shipping kills me especially since I use maybe one or two so it isn't cost effective to make smaller purchases. And too many of CS oils have changed so much they no longer smell or perform the same.

Sorry, by CS I meant Candle Science. They have reformulated many of their oils and some I find no longer work for me while others do. I still use a few for candlemaking, soap, bath & body while others I have nixed since their reformulations no longer work for me. I am in the process of trying to find replacements for those elsewhere.

I don't shop at Millcreak or the Candle Source so can't give you any reco's from them.

I soap EBB's Pink Sugar in my CP soap using VS. It soaps beautifully but turns the soap dark without the VS. My customer's love it. I use quite a few of their FOs for my CP soap.

For candles I started using FOs from JS, FB, and Keystone. I chose Keystone because they have some of Peaks FOs and they rock! FB and PFO carry MW's FOs so I started using them for both soaping and candlemaking. A couple years ago I started ordering FOs from JS for candlemaking and was pleased with what I got. I ordered from their favorites list and was not disappointed.

Like you I am branching out looking for subs and using suppliers I have not used before. I have also started using NG's but so far just a couple for soaping.

I am hearing good reviews on FOs for candlemaking for both Flaming Candle and Cierra so may give them a try. I probably use more suppliers than most candlemakers as some I use for CP soap, some I use just for candles, and others I use for both. Doing candlemaking and body products can complicate your selection process. So I try to find suppliers that work for both. Just because they say skin safe doesn't mean they actually soap well or work in candles,

One supplier I use a lot of is EBB/Elements. The majority of my FOs for B&B come from them. I also use some for candlemaking but my business is mostly soap and B&B with candles during the fall and holiday season. So I only shop for fall and holiday season scents for candlemaking.

1 hour ago, ErronB said:

 

Can you elaborate a bit on getting hot throw with Glass Glow? I've tried everything to get a good hot throw and only about 1 in 10 fragrances want to give anything. The cold throw is banging, super strong, but hot throw non existent.

 

I usually add FO at 200, I've tried 3%-6%, CSN and CD wicks.

Don't have any ideas why you are getting a poor HT and great CT. I get the exact opposite. Hot throw is excellent and cold throw is good but a bit more subtle. I use 5% FO load, heat wax to 210, and add FO just after I stir in my color chip. I want to make sure the color chip is fully incorporated prior to adding FO. But my pour pot I keep on a hot plate at 300 degrees to be sure to keep the wax hot so I still pour at just over 200-210 degrees. Also, I always let the candles cure for a week.

Just about any FO I try I get a good HT. I also use the smaller size wick that burns well in the CSN series. I use a size CSN 9 for my 12oz SS jars.

One other thing you could try. Never burn a candle the same day you made them or even the next day. I find I tend to get candlenose. Also, sometimes if you have been sitting in the same room with a candle for a while, get up and go outside for a few minutes. Come back inside and you should be able to smell it. Again, candlenose at work here.

Currently I get my glass glow at C&S but my last purchase was from Lonestar when C&S ran out of stock. 

23 hours ago, soylights said:

Thanks! I don't want the mislabeled mistletoe. Sounds like that's what the problem was. Reading reviews....looks like this occurred from late 2020 into 2021. We just purchased our CS mistletoe order this month and thankfully it's exactly like the old one we used for years from 2008-2015. 

 

We are going to test Candle Cacoon Winter Wonderland Whisper this week so we have a back up. We have an order to fill for 200 Mistletoe!!! These shortages are stressing us out!

 

Would you be so kind as to leave a review of the Winter Wonderland Whisper. I am very interested in this if it is a dupe of Mistletoe. Thanks.

9 hours ago, soylights said:

So frustrating! I am sorry that happened. I really wish these companies were more transparent. I guess we just got lucky. Definitely hesitant to order from them again. 

Oh I still order a few of the FOs that continue to work for me. I won't be ordering the Mistletoe or a few others thou.

It occurred to me that they might have a few bottles of the old Mistletoe left that they pulled out to fill orders. Or even possibly some were left at one factory. IDK. It makes no sense to me that you got the old the one but I kept getting the new one. It even occurred to me that some could have been the old Merrry Mistletoe? they carried and were mislabled. This is just conjecture as I don't know what is going on at their warehouse. But what I was sent was not even an evergreen/pine type scent. The old mistletoe was very strong and distinctive pine and fir needle with eucalyptus in it. What I was sent smells like berries with wood notes and some other non-distinct notes. 

13 hours ago, soylights said:

Thanks! I don't want the mislabeled mistletoe. Sounds like that's what the problem was. Reading reviews....looks like this occurred from late 2020 into 2021. We just purchased our CS mistletoe order this month and thankfully it's exactly like the old one we used for years from 2008-2015. 

 

We are going to test Candle Cacoon Winter Wonderland Whisper this week so we have a back up. We have an order to fill for 200 Mistletoe!!! These shortages are stressing us out!

 

Believe me I spent quite a lot of time going over my Mistletoe purchase with CS. I too thought the same thing, they had sent me a mislabeled bottle and told them so as it smelled nothing like the old. I was able to get them to send me another bottle to replace my last order of Mistletoe. I waited hoping it had all been a big mistake and I would finally get the one I was familiar with. It finally arrived but it was the same one as my last two purchased. Smelled nothing like the Mistletoe I loved but instead just like the last two bottles I had purchased on separate occasions over the past year. So I now have a third bottle of Mistletoe that was carefully checked by the CS team and it did not smell anything like the old one but did smell like the others. 

So it wasn't a case of being mislabeled. After receiving 3 bottles that smell nothing like the old Mistletoe but exactly like the newly reformulated Mistletoe you can see why I am not willing to try a fourth. I am looking for a replacement as well as a few other newly reformulated FOs from CS. Mistletoe is not the only reformulated FO that has completely changed for me, others I have been using for soaping now behave quite differently as the components have been changed out. I have a business to run and can't be spending my time and money on FOs that no longer behave or smell the same in either my candles, soap, or bath & body products.

I've ordered it twice, once the end of last year, and this year. Neither smells anything like the old Mistletoe. If you want, you can have these as I don't want to use them. I am not liking the reformulated one. PM me if you want them.

FB carries two evergreen types: Balsam Cedar and MW Winter Wonderland. The latter is a Conifer. Both FO's each have the highest review ratings of 5 stars if that helps. But I don't think either are subs for CS Mistletoe, just good FOs that are different evergreen types.

WSP has Crafter's Choice Mistletoe. Don't know if this is the same but it also has a high rating of 5 stars and is a pine scent. They claim it's comparable to Yankee Candle's Mistletoe. Is that the same? I never smelled Yankee's so not sure. If so, here is a good alternative.

Candle Cocoon still carries the Winter Wonderland Whisper. PFO does not carry Pinion Pine but they do have Smokey Mountain Christmas. I have used this one before and it is a strong pine christmas tree scent you may like. Difference is it has mint notes and does not list eucalyptus which is what Mistletoe had in it.

FB also does MW dupes so will check them out to see what they have and report back.

CS Mistletoe has most definitely changed and not for the better. So any old bottle you have or any ones you ordered that still smell the same are not the new reformulated one. The reformulated one smells nothing like the old one. I now have a couple of lbs of the newly reformulated one that I can't use because of that. I am so disappointed because that was my absolute favorite Christmas type scent. 

Will have to check out Candle Cocoon and PFO. I don't remember seeing Pinion Pine at PFO but will check it out anyway.

Hi Marleigha! Sorry I don't use your suppliers so I am not any help there. How long has it been since you ordered FO's? Just wanted to give you a heads up that over the last year or two many have been reformulated to meet new standards. You may find tried and true FO's of the past are no longer the same, perform the same, or often even smell anything like they used to!

Many of us are at wit's end looking for replacements for some while others seem okay for now. It's always something right?!!

I've been steering away from CS oils that I used for years because of the reformulations being so different. Currently I like FB, Fillmore, EBB, Just Scent, and Keystone. Plus a couple others on occasion like C&S and RE. I believe FB has a good PPW I used once. It just didn't sell well for me so I don't use it. It could be there are better versions but I didn't pursue it as my customers are not into the pancake or waffles types.

The suppliers you mention sell blended FOs. So all you are doing is using already blended FOs to create your own blends. Sometimes notes can be lost or overcome by blending your own. If you are good at blending, you can create some unique one of a kind scents. But it does take some practice, and skill, and a very good nose with lots of luck thrown in.

Another thing you mention is that you are new to candlemaking. The most important rule to smelling a FO out of bottle is that it will only give you an indication of what it may smell like in your candle application. Don't expect it to be a true scent. Only by applying it to your wax, allowing it to cure, and burning your candle properly will you be able to smell it properly and all its bottom, middle, and top notes, nuances, dry down, and subtleties, etc. Think of the saying don't judge a book by its cover. You don't know the story until you've read it. Same principle with using FOs. Put it in your application before final judgement. 

Plus, not all FO's, even ones marked for candlemaking will work in all waxes. Each wax is different, even among like waxes you can get a different scent or varying notes or strengths of throw.

There is no way around this, you must test every FO in your candle application to be certain. And this is BEFORE you start blending. Blending is a more advanced candlemaking skill for those that already know how their wax works and have experience working with many FOs.

More new candlemakers give up after only a few short weeks always complaining about the wax and the FOs not working when it had nothing to do with either. It takes lots of time, patience, and experience to craft a good candle, and double that for an excellent throwing candle.

Wanted to add one more thing... I was initially worried about the CT with palm when I first started out working with it. I was worried customers would just think meh... and move on. But that has not been the case at all. Customers tell me how strong my candles smell, strong enough they can smell them before they open. Plus, when I am standing several feet away I can always smell the candle when a customer opens a jar to sniff. So no more worries about CT. There is definitely enough there for customer interest and no one, not one single person, has said anything about a weak CT. This on top of the fact that I lowered my FO load from 6 to 5% more than 3 yrs ago. With the lower FO load the candles actually smell stronger when burning, create even less soot, burn even cleaner, have a better (shorter & more stable) flame height, produce less if any mushrooming, last longer, and cost slightly less to make. A real win-win for me!  

On 10/29/2021 at 10:25 PM, moonshine said:

For container palm?

9 ounce jar I would start with a RRD 37

eco I’m not sure but maybe a 4 for a 9 ounce jar 

CW has a pretty good wick chart to get you started. I'd go with a RRD34-37 with that size jar. Then adjust from there. Smaller size wicks tend to work better with palm.

When I heard that CS was discontinuing the CSN wicks I bought a buttload of CSN 9's to last me for several years for the 12oz jars I use. If you keep researching there was mention some time ago on this forum about another supplier that carries CSN wicks but don't remember who.

I have used RRD wicks in palm before. Both RRD and CSN were made for palm by WEDO so they both work. I just preferred CSN. Once my CSN's run out I plan to use RRD.

As I mentioned, test which wick burns the best, then test the next smaller size. For the 9-12oz jars I think the RRD 34 is what I would start with, then even test the next smaller size just to be sure. I found the smaller the better wick burn with palm. You get a more even burn, less sooting, a shorter flame, without compromizing candle quality. Oh, and no more 6% FO load. GO DOWN!! Trust me, with palm, less is definitely more! I have been working with it for years and find it really shines when you let the wax do its work without overloading on wick size or fragrance.

I still buy glass glow from C&S cause they are on the east coast.

I also used CW's container palm and have to say if you are looking for consistency in wax they are the best hands down. No contest. However, their container palm is similar to crystal or snowflake palm and has a less elegant crystal patterns than glass glow. This is why I stick with glass glow, the crystalization is very elegant compared to to container palms. That aside, CW's container palm behaves like glass glow in every way. You get outstanding HT, lovely glow when burning, and a nice clean looking jar as the wax is fully consumed as the candle burns its way to the end.

2 hours ago, TallTayl said:

I store in gallon zip lock freezer bags.  This way I can squeeze out the extra air to prevent condensation and oxidation. This allows me to scent on demand versus keep lots of excess lotion on hand in scents that may or may not sell. 

The lotion I want to master batch would be unscented. I only scent lotion that I bottle to sell. Unfortunately I don't have room in my freezer to store bags of lotion. My freezer is always full of groceries.

I would like to be able to store gallon containers of unscented lotion base and open them as I need to bottle more for sale. I don't think I would keep the gallon containers for long. Probably a few days to a few weeks. I just want to make large enough batch(s) to store ahead of bottling day. 

Sort of like I do for making soap. I figure what soaps I need to make so I have everything in stock. This will tell me how many soap batches I need to make. I masterbatch my lye and my my oils. That same week I make my soap batches using the masterbatches on soaping day. This is the same thing I want to do with lotion. Master base the base lotion on one day, then later that same week use what unscented lotion I need to scent and bottle to restock.

I want to start making large master batches of lotion to store in large plastic buckets. I currently make my lotion in 4 scents and its a pain in the butt to make a separate batch for each one.

I'd prefer to make enough to fill a  couple of gallon buckets or even 5 gallon buckets if possible. When I make lotion I tend to use about 2 gallons of lotion base at a time and split it between my 4 scents. That means I go through a lot of lotion each time I make it.

Anyone do this? What equipment do you use to heat your water/oil phases in? Trying to gauge what equipment I may need to buy. I will be working in my home kitchen so any industrial sized equipment is out of the question. It needs to be something I can heat on a typical kitchen stove so it can't be too large for standard size stove burners. Thanks.

Yes, PFO has been carrying MW FO's for several years now. So does FB. But its not the same because several FO's were lost when MW closed. Pity.

Yep! I remember Snowdrift Farm, Moonworks, Tony's/Southern Scents and more. But the ones I truly miss are Old Mill and Tradewinds. But even if they were still around their FOs would probably be reformulated like everyone else to stay in compliance. We would probably be experiencing the same problems with them as we are now with a lot of FOs that we have been using like forever that have changed. Makes me wonder if these newly reformulated FOs will last as long.

I second lard soaps! Lard makes wonderful skin loving soaps!