ErronB

6 hours ago, Marisa11 said:

@ErronB How did you do with the adjustments heating and pouring temps? CD wicks are good but you need to stick to the smaller sizes like CD-2 and 3. If you like the CD’s I would highly recommend the CDN series also in the smaller sizes. These I have been told burn a little cooler than the CD wicks. I have not had them for long so my testing has not been extensive but the ones I have tried have been excellent and am excited to continue playing with these. I haven’t been able to make many testing candles on the count I had major surgery early Sept. so its been a LOOONNG healing process. So haven’t been able to make a lot of testers.

It wasn't my cup of tea, I won't be using the coco apricot again I think it's a waste of money. The hot throw left a lot to be desired for me when compared to parasoy waxes which perform a lot better.. I will be testing the wicks that northwood just got in which are supposedly gods gift to coconut waxes but I'm skeptical, they should be here soon.

2 hours ago, Lizzy said:

 Did you email Bill directly? I usually email him directly when I have a question or issue. I just had to again bc they sent me the wrong FO. 

Bill did contact me finally with a bunch of questions, we'll see what happens.

I guess when you're making 40,000lb's of wax at a time there are bound to be some dodgy lots now and again lol.

5 hours ago, bfroberts said:

I surely don't understand adding FO at low temps.  I have several scents that will not blend in if the wax is too cool.  A couple I have to crank the heat on up beyond 185 to get it to fully incorporate.

I realize that there is some bad info put out there by suppliers, but most of these newbies tend to favor Candle Science and their info overall is generally decent.  I don't understand why someone new to the craft would choose to listen to the advice from random FB, Reddit, YouTube users rather than the actual supplier.  I try to route people here for better info.  

I have to add some of my vanilla blends into 6006 at about 195 or it doesn't mix into the wax properly at all, so I know what you're saying, but with soy I don't have this problem with adding at 160. Everything about this craft is weird and different for everyone lol.

I think people listen to others on places like reddit because they see them first-hand making a go of their business and it seems more 'real' rather than just reading a guide on a website and seeing complaints of inexperienced chandlers in the reviews of the waxes / FO's. Obviously most of these newly self-acclaimed master chandlers don't even understand the serious basics of FO's binding etc, but I think it's just that facade that gets people more excited and believe what they are doing is right.

I know people like Jeff Standley will always play the 'what makes you right and I'm wrong' card, and with some things it is true, but there are a lot of things he does that pro's laugh at because they will only work in extremely unique situations like I mentioned at the start, adding FO to 6006 lower than the manufacturers recommendation rarely ever works unless the FO just happens to be one of those that will throw adding it at almost any temp. He think that just because you 'see' it bind to the wax it means that it really has, you and me both know that's not how it 'really' works.

4 hours ago, bfroberts said:

Thank you,@ErronB.  Is it possible it's a different wax that was mislabeled?  Before melting, does it look and feel the same?  So many questions to ask and I don't even know where to begin.  I'm kinda freaked out right now. 
Please let us know if you get a response from CW.    

Still heard nothing from them. It's definitely the same wax because I know the color and feel of it I've used it quite a lot recently. The first couple times I melted some it had some weird oily looking droplets sitting in the bottom of the pitcher and it had a lot of weird air bubbles, it's not doing it now, but still really annoying since I spent the time to cut it all up and seal it into buckets for storing. 

I made a triple wick candle which has managed to coax out the HT better, but even HTP52's are burning with flames big enough to have 1 in a 8oz tin, it's ridiculous.

Disclaimer: I don't recommend adding FO at lower temps or experimenting with it unless you really know what you're doing, this is all just my experience.

I don't really get a good hot throw from soy at all unless I add it lower, but I'm talking about 160, not something crazy like I see some people. It's been that way for a long time now for me.

But the main problem I see is, noobs go from doing this with soy and try it with waxes like 6006 that they 'step up to' and wonder why they get no hot throw, 6006 is like 99% certain to give you a bad hot throw unless you add it at 185-190.  Just looking at the reviews on CandleScience makes me cringe, the staff don't even post their 'advice' they just say 'we'll have someone contact you!' lol. 

But weirdly enough, I get better throw from Problend 600 adding FO at 160. I know it has more soy than 6006 but it's still about 50% paraffin so that makes no sense to me really, but I guess whatever works, works.

I've also noticed that adding FO's at lower temps I can smell the top notes in some of the scents better. 

3 hours ago, bfroberts said:

Damn. Do you have the lot #?
I am so glad I am done making candles for the year.

Lot #10/12/2020.

57 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

Do you happen to have any of the last lot of wax to do a side by side baseline for science? This will be incredibly helpful to impress upon people how wax is not fixed formula, and has a range of acceptable at the manufacturer that may not work well with all of our candle systems. 

I don't, but I might still have a candle or 2 that was made from the last batch that I can show side by side lit to see the difference with the same wick and fragrance / load. I'll have to see if I can find them, would definitely be useful for people to see. I really don't like the fact it's happening with Candlewic's wax because I like them, but I won't be giving them any more money after this because they should have tested it themselves and known it's not even close to their original spec as far as burn quality and HT goes. I've only had 2 bad lots of 6006 out of god knows how many and they were all fixable by either heating hotter or wicking up or down slightly, but I've not managed to get anywhere with this CBL yet, still testing with all wick series.

This is awful. The hot throw is not as good as every batch before, and the flames are huge. A CD3 is burning like a HTP 83. And this is with 8% load AND dye lol. In a jelly jar I'm having to use a tiny LX8!!! This is ridiculous. 

It's not the wicks changing these are all old stock. I did message them about it days ago and of course no answer.

Might have to switch to 6006 as a last resort this time around, ugh, I can't afford to be throwing money down the toilet right now but I guess that's how it goes.

52 minutes ago, birdcharm said:

We've got some holidays coming up here ... which also means gifts to think about, and if you make candles, well, you already know about the sugarplums dancing in your head as to what you're going to try to put together.  This is just a reminder that the clock is now ticking.  Between getting designs together, scents, and all that other stuff, there is also the matter of curing and test burns ... so, let's see then, how much time do we have to actually make candles?  If I start working with my designs this coming week, get some poured next week, let them cure, then test burn, I'll find myself in mid-Nov. with just enough time to either finish projects or do more pours & test burns.  And I have experience, lol, I don't know what new crafters are thinking to tell you the truth when I hear that they want to make candles for Christmas gifts and haven't ever made them before, gee, they may in for a rude awakening!

Most of them are so dumb they don't realize they are doing it wrong. As long as they are following their beloved CandleScience / Standley guides, they will be making pro candles in no time!!! lol

1 hour ago, BusyBee said:

I forgot ask CT strength level.  Is it good idea to aim for 9 to 10 CT strength with 6-7 HT strength?

Depends on your target market I guess. I think it’s funny that almost every candle I smell in a big store has a big cold throw, but every time I buy one and take it home the HT is piss poor. I mean to the point where it’s not even worth leaving it in a tiny bathroom for a little freshen-up now and again.

Personally I don’t really care about strong CT, as long as I can get a half decent whiff after taking the lid off then that’s enough for me. But then I read all these horror stories about people wiping straight fragrance on the tops of their candles to make them smell really strong and apparently it boosts their sales. Worst idea ever, but like we all know, most of these people don’t have a clue about safety or give a toss. All about the $$$.

I am for about a 6 or 7, a lot of the scents I use smell like crap if you load them up to 10 or 12%, it’s just not needed if you know how to make a good candle.

22 minutes ago, BusyBee said:

How do you manage to handle wax shrinkage after burn?  It is my observation that every time melted waxes being harden the wax will shrink down leaving taller wick than while burning.  Wax shrinkage will be different depends on duration of burning & different types of wax.  So, I thought every candles need to be trimmed almost every burn.  Have you found a wax that would not shrink or wick that will shrink with the wax?  Or are you using wicks that will work with your wax at any (long) length?

You're right, I've seen shrinkage in that way with every wax I use . But if you're using a self-trimming wick that just happens to like the wax you're using, the fragrance, and the fragrance load, then it will usually trim itself and carry on where it left off. There is a LOT more to it than that, but realistically professional candle testing by scientists is done with trimming to 1/4 inch between burns, so that is a good enough standard if you pass their checklist.

1 hour ago, TallTayl said:

I look at it like other industries wherein there's a range of acceptable. Aim for the middle.

 

I remember the first time I was able to smell one of my candles. I walked into a room and wondered, "what's that smell???" lol  Shed a tear of joy to learn it was HT FINALLY!!!!!

Ever since soy turned to hell.... I can either make a candle with a middle of the road hot throw and great burn, or one that will blow your whole house out but require trimming after every burn. I choose the better 'burn' just for safety reasons.

I'm stuck using specific fragrances otherwise this wouldn't be an issue, but at least it gives me something to keep playing with. I doubt I'll ever be 100% happy with any candles so I think I'll be testing for the rest of my life lol.

Here’s the problem, you can delve into all the science you want with candle stuff, but along the way you’ll find a lot of things that ‘shouldn’t’ work but they do. It’s good to properly understand all of the supplies you’re using, no doubt about that, but even understanding exactly how a candle should burn perfectly, there is still no ‘ones size fits all’ answer to everything because everyone’s experiences vary so greatly. Which has always been funny to me because it ‘seems’ such a simple thing to learn.

24 minutes ago, ErronB said:

I wick my tins so that they don't ever get a full melt pool until the bottom, I can pick it up at any time during the burn and not worry about it being too hot. I've never had a problem like those pics even after power-burning all night. Of course there's more to it than that, but there is so much stupid out there I have to presume nobody is going to ever trim a wick. I would rather have someone complain after they kept trimming the wick too short and have a tunneled candle than some of those horrific scenarios. 

 

I'm not saying that all of these bad things are happening due to inexperienced chandlers, but with all the changes in materials lately it does make me wonder if they're actually testing anything instead of being more concerned about getting the stock out the door faster. 

 

I actually had the same thing happen to me as TallTayl while using 4627 and that's why I stopped using it. Was a shame really because the HT was huge but it seemed to have a mind of it's own which was nothing to do with cure time.

 

Then that brings me to the whole wooden wick thing, we thought this was bad, but the inconsistencies with the Wooden Wick Co wicks cause things like this much more often.

 

 

Sorry fixed a type and it double posted lol.

I wick my tins so that they don't ever get a full melt pool until the bottom, I can pick it up at any time during the burn and not worry about it being too hot. I've never had a problem like those pics even after power-burning all night. Of course there's more to it than that, but there is so much stupid out there I have to presume nobody is going to ever trim a wick. I would rather have someone complain after they kept trimming the wick too short and have a tunneled candle than some of those horrific scenarios. 

I'm not saying that all of these bad things are happening due to inexperienced chandlers, but with all the changes in materials lately it does make me wonder if they're actually testing anything instead of being more concerned about getting the stock out the door faster. 

I actually had the same thing happen to me as TallTayl while using 4627 and that's why I stopped using it. Was a shame really because the HT was huge was it seemed to have a mind of it's own which was nothing to do with cure time.

Then that brings me to the whole wooden wick thing, we thought this was bad, but the inconsistencies with the Wooden Wick Co wicks cause things like this much more often.

1 minute ago, TallTayl said:

Htp changes happened a few months ago,so new purchases have already been noticed😢

 

the CD was a new one noticed 

 

makes me glad to be a wick hoarder. All the cut offs I saved can be retained to ride this out a little longer. 
 

i sincerely hope your new wicks work fantastically for you. 
 

and you are 100% right that the overly cautious are just as frustrating. A dear friend of mine has been testing for several years. Her worst candles are better than pretty much all other candles on the market. I am more excited about her candle venture than she is because I know she will succeed wildly. 

The Flaming Candle told me they are not selling the new ones yet, still selling old stock, and will put a notice in the description of each size when they actually do the switch instead of just the warning. But I will only buy a smaller bag first just to check after you said that lol..

I sometimes buy candles just because I like the smell and want to watch them burn to hell and fail, but there have been those odd occasions where I've finished it and wanted to do a slow clap because I was impressed with the burn. I'm sure there are others on here who do the same.

Your friend has obviously done things the right way. Even if you had every single wick and wax to test all at once, there is no fast-forward button to burn a candle, and if you've actually spent the time to learn the burn characteristics of the waxes and wicks then you can pretty much make anything a lot faster after that. I had never even touched a parasoy until about a year and a half ago, just soy for a long time before that, but it's taken me this long to 'comfortably' be able to use it. I think I'm gonna spend more time with palm next, I can already tell this is gonna be 'fun'.

I feel really bad saying it, but I’m looking forward to seeing a lot of noobs businesses crumble from making tons of candles without any testing. I don’t think the whole ‘oh just trim the wick shorter!‘ card can be played this time.

Its always the really smiley ones that show off their stuff how amazing they think it looks, and how blessed they are to make such amazing candles that end up losing the most.  Their posts in Facebook Groups are straight comedy for me, like ‘oh don’t worry! We’ve been using a Eco 20 with our mini jelly jars forever! There you go! Praise the Lord have a nice day!’ Okay so i over exaggerated the wick a bit but you get the point. Anyone really experienced knows it’s a death trap.
 

Then you have the totally paranoid chandlers who don’t show off their stuff or say a hell of a lot that sometimes make big discoveries just from testing new batches of supplies.

I use HTP’s in some of the tins I’m doing at the moment, I’m about to buy a ton of old ones just so I got time to figure out the new stuff within the next year or so. I’m wondering if the newer yarn they are using might actually end up burning better in the smaller sizes, might be a blessing in disguise.

1 hour ago, Spahhgirl said:

I personally have experience blending perfume, so I am looking for some more unique scents I can use to blend my fragrances. Scents that are strong, clean, and as natural as possible, when applicable. I have tried Indigo and do not like any of them. They have a synthetic soapy backnote that is off-putting. I have had much better luck with Candlescience and The Flaming Candle. But I am always searching for recommendations from anyone who has had any luck finding strong, natural-smelling, clean scents that work well. I know there are a lot of variations and not every scent is a winner on any line, but I am always looking for new options to test out to expand my blending collection. 

 

Cheers!

I quite like Aztec's oils, I've never had any weird gross smells with theirs. I like some of Northwood's too but they are more expensive.

3 minutes ago, birdcharm said:

I know whatever I'm about to say is probably going to come off wrong to some, but here it goes. 

 

It seems that there are WAY too many new candle makers who are not paying attention to the very basics of the craft ... not about containers; not about wick sizing; not about wick centering; not about mushrooming; not about air pockets; not about temperatures; not about fragrance oil percentages; not about all of those things that contribute to making a candle safe with a nice burn.  What so many seem so much more concerned about is labels; scent names; smooth tops; jar adhesion; full melt pools real quick; adding stuff on top that shouldn't be there; taking pictures.  It's as though they don't understand that they are making a candle, which could explain why they don't seem to put enough emphasis on safety concerns and making sure the recipient knows exactly what to do in the safest way possible. If some are not feeling responsible for making a safe candle, how are they going to feel responsible for any hazards?

 

 

Those noobs don't even know what ASTM is, and like you said, they have no idea about the science of the actual candle, but they don't care about that. Remember these people are all fighting in the lion's den trying to have the prettiest candles and lowest prices to get that Etsy money. Forget about anything to do with actually burning them, lol. People are hard up for money and they think starting a candle business is going solve that problem, and when you got people on YouTube with these verbal diarrhea videos how they make loads of money doing it, everyone else thinks they can do the same.

The whole 'find a wick that will burn a full melt pool in 3 hours and you're golden' motto is what they believe as gospel, and long as they are getting that then they think they're a pro that has it all 'figured out'. They also use defensive answers when you question about the safety. If you ask them about any kind of temperature testing they will just say 'you're not supposed to pick up or move a candle when it's burning so it doesn't matter'.

5 minutes ago, karinz40 said:

I tried Havana several weeks ago with htp 93 and got no scent at all but the burn was ok.

I just lit another new one with HVANA USING AN Lx 22  AND SEE IF THAT WORKS.

Welcome home using HTP 93 give me no scent at all will try an HTP 104 tomorrow.  i have a coiple of those left.

AH I will try tomorrow with 104 as well.

This is so frustrating, I am so ready to just quit but I want so much to get it right.  I need to learn this just to satisfy myself.

There is no 'get it right' to an absolutely perfect standard, so just do the best you can and as long as you got a safe burning candle that doesn't waste a load of wax or soot to death then that is a success IMO.

With tins, I rarely ever get a FMP until nearer the bottom but I can pick up the tin at any time during the burn and not burn myself, I like them cooler and they burn for longer.

Forget the whole 'full melt pool' thing and just keep burning it until the bottom and then evaluate. Straight paraffin is a bit trickier than a good parasoy but 4630 has a low melt point so you shouldn't have problems getting a full melt pool later on.

What TallTayl said is good advice, because if you give the wick enough time to settle properly and not just an hour or so then it will start the next burn a lot better, especially if you're relying on it to self-trim. If you re-light them soon after extinguishing, then they can throw a bit of a fit.

I find that the more 'plasticy' or 'rubbery' waxes hold up a lot better like Candlewic's custom blends I've never had an issue with them melting (I think the melt point is around 130), but they do shrink a bit after cooling properly.

The only coconut wax I tested in heat was Northwoods which is around 125 MP and it was 'okay' but not good enough for me to be confident it would survive, although there's more to it than just that, the way you package candles makes a BIG difference IMO.

8 hours ago, moonshine said:

I stuck a 42 in a 3” jar based off their recommendations with the coconut container slab from candles and supplies blended with some soy and I will say the burn is beautiful.....the throw is lacking though 

I am going to go up and down in size and see if it makes a difference 

I will be trying them in coco apricot tonight as well and just because the Easy beads coconut even though it’s just gone now and not coming back 🤬

 

Can you post a picture of the flame so I can get a better idea how they burn? That'd be nice to see.

I guess I'll bite the bullet and get the sample pack. I'm gonna try them in paraffin / parasoy blends which need the really small sizes, I got a feeling they will do good in those.