I tried using 464 when EcoSoya discontinued. I had terrible frosting on my candles and caves like you wouldn't believe. I ended up having to heat the tops of every candle with my heat gun to get them to look decent. That's not a problem when you're making 5 candles but when you're making 100 it's super time consuming. I really wish I had had better results. 464 also didn't seem to have as good of a scent throw.